I Feel Like I' M Being Manipulated ......

[german_shep_fan]

The OP asked genuine questions and some of the responses are judgmental and accusing. I think it is innocent enough and the norms that may be known to many on here in the breeding community are news to many of us...and that can be communicated respectfully I think!

I very much agree FlyingFurball

To the OP i guess you know now that a forum like this was the wrong place to ask such a question.

I went and had a look at the staffy pup page here and many breeders are offerning their pups on either limited or main register and some are only offering them on the main register. Out of interest i looked at other puppy breed pages and many breeds are the same. I am not advising you or telling you to look elsewhere, but obviously there are breeders who sell their pups on main reg without question (anyone can lie through their back teeth to get a pup).

Therefore in light of this, unless every registered breeder only sells on the limited register except to ppl who want to show and responsibly breed ect, they can also be the ones whose dogs descendants end up in the pound as they sold their dogs to ppl on the main register who "just wanted one litter".

Im sure this is going to be a very unpopular post, and no im not saying all the breeders who post here do this, but it only takes one look across the puppy breed board here to see many breeders who are registered with DOL who do.

Edited January 20, 2012 by german_shep_fan

[_PL_]

Actually I think the breeder sounds really reasonable. :)

They offered you the chance to do something productive for the breed and positive for you and your family. All with the guidance of someone who seems to care what happens to their dogs.

Perhaps you feel the options don't suit your situation. In that case buy a nice quality limited register desexed pet and enjoy. :)

[SparkyTansy]

Maybe what you put across to the breeder was that you were responsible enough and that she might trust you with one of her beloved puppies on the main register to breed with (under co-ownership and her guidance). Maybe because you mentioned you were interested in breeding that she thought she was doing something positive by making that offer and maybe that it might get you interested in doing things the right way with your dog.

To think that she would have sold you this puppy with your agreement to not breed, only to say that there shouldn't be anything wrong with wanting to "carry on his line" (hence breeding him later to some unknown, without the breeder knowing) sends shivers down my spine.

What was offered to you was very reasonable. I think that by saying that you were uncomfortable with the arrangement was also reasonable however obviously this pup was too good to let go to a pet home, hence offering you your money back, because she had nothing else to sell to you.

Edited January 20, 2012 by SparkyTansy

[WeimMe]

I don't think they meant any disrespect. Someone unfamiliar with buying from a breeder (like me!) might not understand the breeder's reasons for wanting to make that arrangement and may not feel that it is a fair thing to ask. To the OP it may be the equivalent of buying a new car and being asked if the salesperson can borrow it sometimes. I'm not saying that it's the right attitude to have, just that they probably are not able to see the situation from the breeder's point of view.

[Nekhbet]

Yes we all started out somewhere but you just have to be aware of what breeding involves. Are you willing to take on an 8 year old dog you bred because she's too old, we re moving, we have a child, she's sick, etc etc? Did you know that in the US 25% of dogs in shelters are purebred, that over half of the healthy animals in shelters are euthanised because there are just not enough homes?

Breeding is so much more than wanting a puppy from my "extra pecial beautiful dogs"

OT ... I know some people with a male golden retriever ... they wanted to breed him as he's so 'beautiful' and want a pup from him ...

so health scores? No. So what happens if the owners of the pups cant keep them or they end up with genetic problems?

Well thats the bitches owners problem, she gave birth to them. Nothing to do with the sire

[Alyosha]

... cough... possible troll alert? ... ;)

[Ronda]

... cough... possible troll alert? ... ;)

I was just thinking this.

Stop feeding the troll.

[flame ryder]

Call me stupid but whats a troll?

[rebelsquest]

I am not 'having a go' with this comment as it is true, but i was looking at a rescue site the other day and there was a dog in the pound on death row and they even stated what his kennel name was on his papers that they had! This 'ethical' registed breeder obviously just didn't give a s^&t that one of her pups was going to die in a pound

Being a country person i am sick of ppl just assuming what they percieve as byb as the only ppl who allow this to happen. I know many ppl who bred their working dogs purely for that sake and made sure they knew where their pups were going and how they were going to be treated. Just because they are not registered or show dogs doesn't make these ppl automatically bad.

This is a MASSIVE assumption. The person who surrendered the dog may have handed over the papers. This breeder could have died, had a serious health issue, moved away, changed contact details and not been contacted and advised that the dog was in a pound etc etc.

[FlowerProwler]

Call me stupid but whats a troll?

"A troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

Alhough I honestly have no idea if the OP is trolling or not.

[Tralee]

Hi Folks,

I need to vent and know if the following is not a one off, my favourite breed of dog is the english staffy....so I made an executive decision to pay the usual 1400 or so for my dream dog purebred etc......when i came across a litter and the registered breeder agreed to sell a pup to me but only on the conditions of not showing him or breeding him fine by me i only ever wanted him in our family none of theses things had crossed my mind ....so further on i thought hang on what am i paying for papers for if i can not atleast get a pup from him when he is 5 /6 years old so as to continue his line in our family, i regretted not doing this with our last dog, i was told no....ok fine whatever just have to enjoy our new member.

Then the breeder comes at me with ill take 300 off the price if i can show him under her name, and he can sire, everytime he sires she will give me 100 cash......when i said im not comfortable she said she would give me my money back.... is it because im a single mum (who is very awesome with dogs) or am i being manipulated the whole scene is doing my head in please tell me what yall think bout this.....Thanks

How is getting a puppy an executive decision?

A decision like that comes from the heart and the authority remains with the breeder.

A pedigree dog on the Limited register can be moved to the Main register at a later time.

So, you might have jumped the gun here.

It is not uncommon for new pedigree dog owners to consider showing and ultimately breeding.

And, if you can rise to the challenge and fulfil the requirements then you have every right to do so.

I would have shut down the transaction with the breeder at

I'll take 300 off the price if i can show him under her name, and he can sire, everytime he sires she will give me 100 cash

but it is easy to judge in hindsight.

I don't think it has anything to do with you being a single mum, either do I think you are being manipulated.

Just a sloppy breeder in this case and I am sorry that, in your very first post, you didn't get the help you asked for before now.

I also think it is important to remember the purpose of the forum and to consider too the consequences of meeting those who come here asking for help with less than what is expected (every post has the potential to go viral).

Px

Edited January 20, 2012 by Tralee

[Blackdogs]

I'll explain it to you in non-patronising, non-judgemental terms, because no doubt, you simply don't undersrand the way the show world works, and that's ok, most people don't. :)

There is a gross canine overpopulation problem resulting in thousands of doggy deaths a year. There simply aren't enough homes to go around. This is why most people should abstain from breeding, because when one breeds they simply add to the problem.

However, if everyone stopped breeding to ameliorate this problem there would be no dogs pretty quickly! So who should breed and why?

Well, purebreed dogs are very important, because without them we would not be able to select a dog in accordance with our needs. Purebred dogs generally have predictable breed traits, including temperament and physical qualities. This means that a family who wants a laid back, small dog because they don't have the strength, time or energy to deal with a more powerful or active type can select a paticular breed to suit their needs. This leads to greater success in long-term placement, fewer trips to the pound and an abundance of great human/dog relationships.

However, you can't just breed any purebred dog to any other purebred dog, because the objective of breeding is to better the breed - that is to to stay as close as possible to the stated breed requirements, so you have to breed together two dogs that complement each other.

Conformation (having your dog judged by an expert as to its structural quality in the showring) is the way in which bettering the breed is achieved. If a dog with very good traits is bred to another dog with very good traits there is an opportunity to improve the breed.

So. What the breeder is trying to do here is give you the opportunity to breed your dog in the right way. If your dog is deemed by a judge to be worthy of bettering the breed then you can find a mate that complements your dog in order to improve the line.

Without this objective, you're just another person breeding for your own personal reasons, contributing to the pet overpopulation problem and giving the breeder a bad name for doing so.

I hope this made sense. If you would like to ask any questions I am happy to answer them. :)

Edited January 20, 2012 by Blackdogs

[rachiie]

Good post Blackdogs.

[Erny]

Good post Blackdogs.

+1

ETA: The OP has posted one post only (grand total). Why people are leaping to judge on that basis is not something I comprehend.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Erny

[Christina]

I am not impressed with you or the breeder. You have 2 choices

1 Go along with what the breeder wants, sounds like you will get on well together

2 Go to the pound & get a dog, plenty of this breed end up there & you will be saving a life. As the dog will be desexed you will not have this decision to make, the dog will just be a family member, which is what you really wanted. Isn't it ?

[german_shep_fan]

I am not 'having a go' with this comment as it is true, but i was looking at a rescue site the other day and there was a dog in the pound on death row and they even stated what his kennel name was on his papers that they had! This 'ethical' registed breeder obviously just didn't give a s^&t that one of her pups was going to die in a pound

Being a country person i am sick of ppl just assuming what they percieve as byb as the only ppl who allow this to happen. I know many ppl who bred their working dogs purely for that sake and made sure they knew where their pups were going and how they were going to be treated. Just because they are not registered or show dogs doesn't make these ppl automatically bad.

This is a MASSIVE assumption. The person who surrendered the dog may have handed over the papers. This breeder could have died, had a serious health issue, moved away, changed contact details and not been contacted and advised that the dog was in a pound etc etc.

Fair enough, but that was not the only dog who was there with their papers ect, they can't ALL have died, had health issues ect, and even if this was the case, if it was one of the pups i bred i would still leave details to forward to another responsible person so none of my pups ended up with this fate. I just personally think many breeders want to offlay all the blame on so called byb when they can just as easily contribute to the overpopulation of dogs further down the line (as i also stated in a previous post).

The mentality in this post quite honestly is shocking. There is a way of getting a message across... After this response the OP may be more likely to go to a byb for dogs and advice given the response by registered breeders here

[Topoftheheap]

Are you serious? Or do you really not understand it? I get it, it can all be confusing but your def not being manipulated.

[mace]

Hi Folks,

I need to vent and know if the following is not a one off, my favourite breed of dog is the english staffy....so I made an executive decision to pay the usual 1400 or so for my dream dog purebred etc......when i came across a litter and the registered breeder agreed to sell a pup to me but only on the conditions of not showing him or breeding him fine by me i only ever wanted him in our family none of theses things had crossed my mind ....so further on i thought hang on what am i paying for papers for if i can not atleast get a pup from him when he is 5 /6 years old so as to continue his line in our family, i regretted not doing this with our last dog, i was told no....ok fine whatever just have to enjoy our new member. Then the breeder comes at me with ill take 300 off the price if i can show him under her name, and he can sire, everytime he sires she will give me 100 cash......when i said im not comfortable she said she would give me my money back.... is it because im a single mum (who is very awesome with dogs) or am i being manipulated the whole scene is doing my head in please tell me what yall think bout this.....Thanks

The breeder in this case is restricting your rights of owning a pedigree papered dog. If that situation for you is unacceptable, buy from a non restrictive breeder and give this one a miss :)

[Guest]

I asked the seller if she would do it have all the pups except one when me boy turned 5/6 yrs when she said no it was over...but i am new to this kind of thing another breeder did not want to sell me a pup but an already over bred dog with similar conditions now that i know this is not unusual i am fine with it so yeah thanks.

1. She said she would sell you a dog with Limited Registration...... Normal

2. Pup was turning out better than she expected.......offered you a discount for co- ownership...nothing too sinister.

What would you 'carry on his line with' in regards to a female dog?

[Crisovar]

First of all , not "English" staffys.

The reason poeple here may come over as harsh is because the majority of dogs in the pound, who die are staffys, bred by people who "want a pup for the kids to see", 'think my dog is awesome so should have a litter". etc etc.

If you don't know the right name for the breed do you know what is a good speciman of the breed ? Can you pick a perfect match to breed with? Are you going to be responsible for all the pups you breed , then they go onto breed? Or are you fine with churning out pups who one day might die scared in a cage at the pound, go visit one and see.

I am not 'having a go' with this comment as it is true, but i was looking at a rescue site the other day and there was a dog in the pound on death row and they even stated what his kennel name was on his papers that they had! This 'ethical' registed breeder obviously just didn't give a s^&t that one of her pups was going to die in a pound

Being a country person i am sick of ppl just assuming what they percieve as byb as the only ppl who allow this to happen. I know many ppl who bred their working dogs purely for that sake and made sure they knew where their pups were going and how they were going to be treated. Just because they are not registered or show dogs doesn't make these ppl automatically bad.

The Breeder may have been unaware of the dogs situation. Rescues, ponds, surrendering owners do not always contact the Breeder.