? Never Use 'down' Only 'drop' ?

[Greytmate]

I am only a beginning trialler but I can't see my dog ever responding to a command said by the judge rather than me. The only time I've ever seen a dog do this is for "exercise finished" ;) I guess it could be an issue for some people but I use "down" with no issues in the trial ring.

No, it's unlikely to happen.

But for the sake of consistency and lack of confusion while teaching the commands it is best to use one word, and make it different from the instructor's command. With beginner obedience, people have a tendency to draw out commands that are best be kept short. Short words like drop, sit, stand and wait, are quite good in this respect.

In my class I would always advise people what command word to use, but it was not compulsory. I was always happy to explain why if asked.

[Kavik]

You can choose any command you want. To the trainer's credit, he probably suggested using drop for lie down because a lot of people use down to mean get down (if dog is jumping on a person or furniture etc) and to then use down or lie down for lie down would be confusing for the dog, and not everybody thinks of this when choosing commands for their dog (having instructed classes, it does happen sometimes that people will use one word to mean more than one thing).

I use drop for lie down and give for give an object (though I may use out next time for this).

I think SchH commands have to be in German but not 100% sure on that.

[Podengo]

I use drop for all of my dogs simply because everyone I know will say "DOWN!!!" if the dog jumps on them, or on the furniture... So I don't want them ignoring the command to lie down.

[jacqui835]

What a strange idea. I have to use down for lying because I use stop on my sheepdog and drop and stop sound too similar.

This. We also use give (give us a toy, bone anything they have that I want to see) and off (off furniture, feet off a person)

I say down and off if I want Sammy to get off something, he seems to understand, because I can also say up. If he's lying down, up means sit, if he's sitting it means stand and if he's standing it means jump up on me or a nearby object. Drop means drop whatever he is holding onto the ground, bring it here means bring the item to me and then give means hand it to me, rather than dropping it. Down means lie down, but if he is standing up on something, it means get off it. When I read this I realise I must be one of the worst and most confusing trainers, but fortunately Sammy seems to know what I want... Wait means wait for the next command or release, which is different from stay of course which is a command in itself and it goes on lol. There are plenty of difficulties associated with having clever dogs, but also some awesome advantages :)

[wuffles]

Yes, now I am paranoid about our change of position and will be eating my words if anything goes wrong at our trial next week

[huski]

My family yell 'down' and taint other obedience commands I use all the time, I haven't seen a negative effect on Daisy though - I think it's so contextual, and there's a distinct difference between me giving a command and anyone else giving it or saying something to her.

ETA: Even though she's really great with voice signals I think there's also so much body language they read too.

Edited January 16, 2012 by huski

[Dame Aussie]

I am only a beginning trialler but I can't see my dog ever responding to a command said by the judge rather than me. The only time I've ever seen a dog do this is for "exercise finished" ;) I guess it could be an issue for some people but I use "down" with no issues in the trial ring.

:laugh: It can happen, wuffles :laugh: Try setting your dog up for example for the distance control and get someone to stand with you and say all your commands to try and catch them out :laugh:

When someone yells 'down' or 'sit' to their dog across the yard at herding Weez will comply too.

Even worse than that, if someone is calling their own dog at the park or beach he will rush up to them then plonk his butt down to wait for his treat

I guess he'll never be an obedience dog!

:laugh: That's adorable!

ETA: I find my dogs are more sensitive to hand signals, we always use hand signals when training along with the word and now they will both sit/lie down etc on a hand signal with or without the word.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Aussie3

[Weasels]

:laugh: That's adorable!

ETA: I find my dogs are more sensitive to hand signals, we always use hand signals when training along with the word and now they will both sit/lie down etc on a hand signal with or without the word.

He is a very cheeky little Weasel

If there was one command I would change though, it's using 'ok' as their release word. When we have them in a down-stay while we are listening to instructions from a trainer both OH and I will often acknowledge the trainer's advice with an 'ok!' without thinking .... aaaaaaand there goes our dog

Edited January 16, 2012 by Weasels

[raz]

OT but what's the reason for the English Only rule for ANKC Obedience trials? If the dog completes the test, why does it matter if the handler gives the commands in English, Mandarin or Elvish? I've never competed in obedience but I've stewarded and couldnt even hear the commands most of the time.

[Greytmate]

OT but what's the reason for the English Only rule for ANKC Obedience trials? If the dog completes the test, why does it matter if the handler gives the commands in English, Mandarin or Elvish? I've never competed in obedience but I've stewarded and couldnt even hear the commands most of the time.

Because people were making up words of many syllables (giving their dog a possible advantage) and claiming the words were Swahili or Inuit or some other obscure language. In a trial ring, a judge has no way to check.

So because of that, only English allowed.

You have to call your dog using a simple english word like "come" and not use a 'foreign word' like "Puppywuppypuppycarmheraaaaa!"

[raz]

I still dont get it. It's just a curiosity question because I'll probably never compete in trials but what's it matter to the judge if the handler says Come or BudgieSmugglerExtraordinaireILoveYouSchnookieBoy?

[Greytmate]

I still dont get it. It's just a curiosity question because I'll probably never compete in trials but what's it matter to the judge if the handler says Come or BudgieSmugglerExtraordinaireILoveYouSchnookieBoy?

Because a dog has to be paying attention to hear a single word command. Where as if a drawn out command is used, it has more chance of grabbing the attention of a distracted dog.

To keep it fair for everyone, the same rules apply. The dog must obey the command without any verbal encouragement. Part of the test is to see whether the dog has been taught to pay close attention, and so the dog instantly responding to simple commands proves that it is paying attention.

[raz]

I still dont understand why english only. If they said single syllable words only that would make more sense to me if it's along the lines of simple commands.

As I said, I'm just curious. What happens if the handler is mute or the dog is deaf - are hand signals only OK?

[wuffles]

I still dont understand why english only. If they said single syllable words only that would make more sense to me if it's along the lines of simple commands.

As I said, I'm just curious. What happens if the handler is mute or the dog is deaf - are hand signals only OK?

You can ask the judge for permission to use other languages and from what I understand it is usually given. I guess it is just to make things easier for the judges and as fair as possible.

You can use hand signals only, yes.

[raz]

You can ask the judge for permission to use other languages and from what I understand it is usually given. I guess it is just to make things easier for the judges and as fair as possible.

You can use hand signals only, yes.

Thanks Wuffles.

I'm still not really getting it, though. If for example a handler uses numbers from one to ten in mandarin as commands, if the judge doesnt understand mandarin they'll just think it's random consonants and vowels strung together as a monosyllable in english. If I said the mandarin word for number 4 to make the dog sit, the judge wouldnt have a clue.

Edited January 17, 2012 by raz

[poochmad]

I have always used drop and used down to get down from something. To release a ball or object I use the word leave or give. I think it is up to the individual as to what commands to use.

We use the same commands and I also agree that it's up to the individual for which command you use. There is no set rule.

[huski]

Raz - I've never heard of a judge refusing someone who has asked to use non English commands in the ring as long as they are one syllable. Seita on this forum who uses German words just gets asked by the judge what her commands are and they have always approved her using them.

Edited January 17, 2012 by huski

[raz]

Thanks Huski. I just thought the english only rule was really interesting. I had never heard of it before.

[RubyStar]

Yes, now I am paranoid about our change of position and will be eating my words if anything goes wrong at our trial next week

They can also anticipate this one big time, I know mine do! Make sure you vary this, put long pauses between commands, or reward and break off after one of the positions, or I will sometimes do a bit of an arm dance to catch them out on the next position

Edited January 17, 2012 by RubyStar

[Greytmate]

You can ask the judge for permission to use other languages and from what I understand it is usually given. I guess it is just to make things easier for the judges and as fair as possible.

You can use hand signals only, yes.

Thanks Wuffles.

I'm still not really getting it, though. If for example a handler uses numbers from one to ten in mandarin as commands, if the judge doesnt understand mandarin they'll just think it's random consonants and vowels strung together as a monosyllable in english. If I said the mandarin word for number 4 to make the dog sit, the judge wouldnt have a clue.

There are set exercises that are completed, and the judge needs to know whether the dog is reacting to single commands, or whether the dog is merely responding to to verbal encouragement. Hand signals can be used instead, or as well as verbal commands. However they have to be given at the exact same time as the verbal command. Judges can decide somebody has given a 'double command' if the command isn't done in a single instant.

The rules have evolved over time to make it as fair as possible on all competitors. If a person feels they will be disadvantaged by the rules they can discuss this before they enter a trial so that the competition can be made fair to them.

Anyone can also play a part in getting rules changed if they feel they have a better idea. Most of us just accept that a competition will have rules so that we are all on a level playing field, and our dog and handler ability is being judged, not handler inventiveness in trying to provide verbal motivation for their dog in a test situation. That is why we have the rule and it seems fair enough to me.