Training A New Puppy

[Zug Zug]

Raineth good points. I have been doing some of those things (not coats in this weather yet, but that time will come), and bite inhibition is the only thing I am actively using corrections for at present. He is a little alligator at the moment - he's learning but it has been a bit painful at times so this has become a priority.

I love this puppy stuff - but given it had been 14 years since my last puppy I've had to re-learn it from scratch.

[aussielover]

Most dogs I see can't do "things" if the relationship isn't there anyway.

Really? I see it all the time especially at obedience. Lots of dogs that can complete commands but are still just going through the motions.

Just to be clear I have nothing against trick training etc

The ones I see lacking the relationship are the ones that go "roll over! roll over! ROLL OVER! *tug on leash* ROLLLL OVER!" and the dog MAY roll over ;)

I see dogs with obedience titles who still don't have a great relationship with their handler.

But it's not just about the dog doing things - I meet dogs all the time that are really great dogs and super obedient when they are working but have terrible manners outside of training. It's a mistake I made with my dog which is why I bought up teaching more than just obedience and tricks - my next puppy will be raised very differently!

Can you explain what you mean by that?

Personally I find it quite difficult to judge a persons relationship with their dog as it is such an individual thing. People want different things from their dogs. I think that if a dog wants to work with the handler and is generally fairly responsive to the owner then the relationship is pretty good.

What one persons finds completely unacceptable in a dog, another persons thinks its an endearing or cute behaviour.

Some people like a super fast, super animated and drivey dogs, where as others like a more steady and laid back dog especially if the dog is primarily a pet.

I think it is important to teach a puppy to behave how you want it to. Also for obedience and agility teaching engagement is important. Tricks are a great way to have fun and therefore build a good relationsip. Having said that I do understand where Huski is coming from. At 4 months my dog could do over 20 different commands and knew lots of tricks but was still very bratty and quite irritating to live with, but if you saw her at training you would probably think she was one of the best behaved dogs. She got better over time and is now really easy to live with thank goodness!!!

Good luck with your pup Zug Zug, I just love standard poodles (would totally get one if it wasn't for all the grooming!)

[huski]

Can you explain what you mean by that?

Sure. Seeing dogs avoiding their owner's eyes and cringing away from them in the ring, hitting the deck when the owner yells at them in the ring for getting something wrong (I saw this at a trial once!), having no obedience outside of the length of the leash because the dog knows it can't be corrected by the handler from a certain distance. I could go on but I think you get what I mean. Of course that's just my opinion, because I strive to have a different kind of relationship with my dog. I don't see a dog that plods along in the ring almost completely disengaged from the handler as a great relationship. Other people may see something different but it's not my cup of tea.

[aussielover]

Can you explain what you mean by that?

Sure. Seeing dogs avoiding their owner's eyes and cringing away from them in the ring, hitting the deck when the owner yells at them in the ring for getting something wrong (I saw this at a trial once!), having no obedience outside of the length of the leash because the dog knows it can't be corrected by the handler from a certain distance. I could go on but I think you get what I mean. Of course that's just my opinion, because I strive to have a different kind of relationship with my dog. I don't see a dog that plods along in the ring almost completely disengaged from the handler as a great relationship. Other people may see something different but it's not my cup of tea.

Yes, i guess with a fearful dog it is obvoius the relationship could be improved.

But what about a dog that is happy but not super animated/drivey and looks around occasionally or maybe runs over to the judge/steward to give them kisses but is well behaved in general

Do they have a worse relationship with the owner than the dog who is super attentive and glued to the owners leg and never looks away the whole time in training/competition but then behaves like a brat out of training (I know dog like this) ?

[huski]

Yes, i guess with a fearful dog it is obvoius the relationship could be improved.

But what about a dog that is happy but not super animated/drivey and looks around occasionally or maybe runs over to the judge/steward to give them kisses but is well behaved in general

Do they have a worse relationship with the owner than the dog who is super attentive and glued to the owners leg and never looks away the whole time in training/competition but then behaves like a brat out of training (I know dog like this) ?

That's different to the example I was giving and not the point I was trying to make, though obviously having a dog that runs off during trials and is easily distracted means that there is room for improvement (but isn't there always??) :)

[aussielover]

obviously having a dog that runs off during trials and is easily distracted means that there is room for improvement (but isn't there always??) :)

Yes :) I guess that is what makes training both fun and challenging :)

[wuffles]

What a boring world it would be if we all wanted our dogs to behave in the exact same way. If one way of training had been proven to be "the best" then we would all be using it and all our dogs would be obedience champions. That has not happened and never will, because it is different for every dog, and every handler. In my opinion just getting a CCD or RN or JD or TD (etc) pass requires a relationship - whether it is the same relationship that I want to have with my own dogs is none of my business!

I have a completely different relationship with my "pet" dog than I do with my "trialling" dog. There is nothing WRONG with either of them, they are just DIFFERENT.

I also strive to have a different kind of relationship with my dog, but transferring that to trialling is a different matter. We are being relatively successful so I mustn't be doing too badly. A title on a dog tells me that there is some kind of relationship.

(Sorry to go a bit off topic, OP )

[huski]

I am not saying everyone should be the same Wuffles or use the same method, not sure where you got that impression?

Just giving my opinion that when a dog is so scared of the handler it cringes and cowers in the ring (and outside of it) that doesn't exemplify a great dog handler relationship. It was seeing great working partnerships in obedience that made me strive to have a better relationship with my dog. I don't see anything wrong with wanting more or something better.

[RubyStar]

I think I know what you're trying to say, wuffles. I have a fantastic relationship with my dogs, they are my world, but sometimes they aren't the fantastically attentive and drivey dogs in the ring so from the outside it must appear our relationship is lacking. I know huski doesn't mean offense, but unfortunately it looks like some of us have taken it. You can't judge a dog/handler relationship by simply watching them in the trialling ring. Fearful dogs of their owners in the ring may be a different story, but again isn't my place to judge as an outsider, as I have no idea of the story. It may not be our choice of working style (whichever style that is), but relationship has little to do with it. JMO. Edit: typed that before I saw huski's latest reply.

Edited January 29, 2012 by RubyStar

[huski]

I think I know what you're trying to say, wuffles. I have a fantastic relationship with my dogs, they are my world, but sometimes they aren't the fantastically attentive and drivey dogs in the ring so from the outside it must appear our relationship is lacking. I know huski doesn't mean offense, but unfortunately it looks like some of us have taken it. You can't judge a dog/handler relationship by simply watching them in the trialling ring. Fearful dogs of their owners in the ring may be a different story, but again isn't my place to judge as an outsider, as I have no idea of the story. It may not be our choice of working style (whichever style that is), but relationship has little to do with it. JMO. Edit: typed that before I saw huski's latest reply.

I'm not talking about whether dogs are super drivey and attentive, god knows I struggle with that with my dog in the obedience ring because of the anxiety attacks I get when I trial. I am sure there have been trials we have entered where people have thought my dog was rubbish and shouldn't have been in the ring in the first place.

Sorry I bought it up at all because obviously I've somehow offended everyone which wasn't at all what I was wanting to do. The fearful dogs I am thinking of aren't random dogs I've seen at once trials but dogs I've also seen at training and outside the ring and I know how they are trained and handled.

[wuffles]

huski, the conversation didn't start off with fearful dogs, on the previous page it sounded like you were inferring that if a dog isn't 100% well behaved all of the time then there was a relationship issue or the dog should be better trained. I know it's probably not how you intended it but that's how it came across.

[huski]

huski, the conversation didn't start off with fearful dogs, on the previous page it sounded like you were inferring that if a dog isn't 100% well behaved all of the time then there was a relationship issue or the dog should be better trained. I know it's probably not how you intended it but that's how it came across.

All I said was "I see dogs with obedience titles who still don't have a great relationship with their handler". What I was thinking of when I wrote that is the example I gave above.

When I wrote the going through the motions comment I was actually thinking of my own dog. When we first started in obedience she could complete commands but it was still like we were fighting each other and IMO our relationship was lacking, it didn't feel like we even had one. I see dog owners struggle with their dogs like I did at obedience all the time, maybe building a good relationship with your dog is something that comes more naturally to some more than others.

ETA: I think this really got off track, what I was originally trying to say was a completely different point which was one thing I will concentrate on with my next pup is general manners outside of training. Nothing at all to do with relationship building etc. Speaking from personal experience there too :laugh:

Edited January 29, 2012 by huski