toy*dog Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I was disturbed to find an advertisement in the local paper about a purebred breed of dog kennels after a kennel attendant and giving website details. i was skeptical as to me it sounded like a large scale commercial venture but I was hoping it might be a new ANKC reg breeder. looking at the website i found that this new breeder is reg with APDBA and breeding purebreeds claiming that they are breeding for health and they are not inbred as they have imported their sires from America. So they also had a go at "show breeders" not breeding for health in a roundabout way and referring several times to the show standard not allowing white (for a reason!) but they are going to be the first to allow it. so importing gives them an edge to charge big bucks, no wonder the public is all confused. all the rubbish they had on the website in my opinion was just code for "making money". spinining BS. if i was looking for a puppy today not 26 years ago, i would be so confused about ANKC reg and just the word registered when i see that everything is challenged today, tradition and history. im hopping mad that this kennel is starting up in an area that welcomes large scale commercial breeders. I mean i see that some of the public are listening too much to that program pedigree dogs exposed and the negative media attention about purebreeds in general. but usually it is from people that have no idea, i've been in this world for most of my life and i can say absolutely that in any group there is always some individual who is out for their own cause, but ther is also ethical caring individuals who do the right thing. you can't label everyone in that group the same way! i take offence to the things that has been said about us in the past. im certainly not one of those people who would show a sick dog and i know alot of others who feel the same way, or who would breed on sick dogs or have a line of sick dogs. some people who don't know anything about our world are saying that we are cruel to even contemplate showing dogs! or to force the dogs to mate! lol lol dogs being dogs you don't force them to mate, lol and if the dog is a healthy specimen being shown and winning based on their nice type and a nice example why not, what is wrong with it. its not just a beauty pageant showing also encompases soundness in a dog, body and mind. not just type or looks. explain this very thing every chance i get to most people and most understand by the time i finish with them, although one guy who had the opinion he knows it all, would not listen. you get people like that i suppose, no matter how much of the correct information they receive they still don't want to listen and learn. just wanted to get this off my chest, my family is getting sick of me getting on the Ol' soap box as is my workmates, they even threatened to bring in a soap box so everytime i started up they'd get me to stand on it..... Edited January 12, 2012 by toy*dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGirl85 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 A lot of bybers seem to think their council registration counts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 That particular breeder has been around a long time and is a registered breeder .Just not an ANKC registered breeder . They have recently completed the new kennel and why you will hear about them more. You had best get used to it . If you don't start qualifying who you are registered with then its no longer what it used to be - assumed it was ANKC. and like it or not some people think that ANKC registered is the lesser one. Times have changed and people can be registered and register their puppies including their pedigrees and give registered pedigrees with their puppies with organisations other than what has been traditionally seen as registered. No point in complaining about it - its here and now best to adjust our language or be promoting those we don't want to promote every time we recommend someone use a registered breeder . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 That particular breeder has been around a long time and is a registered breeder .Just not an ANKC registered breeder . They have recently completed the new kennel and why you will hear about them more. You had best get used to it . If you don't start qualifying who you are registered with then its no longer what it used to be - assumed it was ANKC. and like it or not some people think that ANKC registered is the lesser one. Times have changed and people can be registered and register their puppies including their pedigrees and give registered pedigrees with their puppies with organisations other than what has been traditionally seen as registered. No point in complaining about it - its here and now best to adjust our language or be promoting those we don't want to promote every time we recommend someone use a registered breeder . Steve, are there other pure breed registries in Australia? Or are you referring to the "self registry" of Designer Breeds and peoples affiliations with other groups that they may be 'registered" members with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 That particular breeder has been around a long time and is a registered breeder .Just not an ANKC registered breeder . They have recently completed the new kennel and why you will hear about them more. You had best get used to it . If you don't start qualifying who you are registered with then its no longer what it used to be - assumed it was ANKC. and like it or not some people think that ANKC registered is the lesser one. Times have changed and people can be registered and register their puppies including their pedigrees and give registered pedigrees with their puppies with organisations other than what has been traditionally seen as registered. No point in complaining about it - its here and now best to adjust our language or be promoting those we don't want to promote every time we recommend someone use a registered breeder . Steve, are there other pure breed registries in Australia? Or are you referring to the "self registry" of Designer Breeds and peoples affiliations with other groups that they may be 'registered" members with? I would also like to know this. I am guessing that these other types of registration are not recignised by the ANKC for showing, breeding and the like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijigs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yes, LizT and buddy1, there are other registries of dogs which are not recognised by the ANKC. Some groups like the Master Dog Breeders of Australia accept interest from breeders "from any bona fide reegistry" (?) Some examples of registries which are not recognised by the Australian Kennel Club would be the American Pitbull Registry which aims to be a international registry for pitbulls, and The Koolie Club of Australia who are trying very hard to standardise and define the Koolie so that they can apply to be recognised as a distinct breed by the ANKC. By 'a distinct breed' I mean a breed which consistently breeds true to type and has breeding records going back five or more generations so that everyone can see which doggs an individual is descended from. There are many concerns about aspects of the ANKC's operations BUT it still remains the only legitimate registry of purebred/pedigreed dogs in Australia and while the ANKC continues to hold these records, it will retain its status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_inoz Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) This association scares me..... especially seeing as the language they use is all about being responsible breeders but that they can sell to "approved" pet stores. This association seems to have been set up just so that puppy farmers, breeding cross breeds can say they are responsible registered breeders (and thus suck the public in). Edited January 14, 2012 by Troy Link removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijigs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yes indeed! The general run of folk are so gullible only because they just don't know any different which is why the ANKC, through its State member bodies, need to step up to the mark and do a lot better in the areas of eductation, publicity, public relations amongst others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijigs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Prospective puppy owners need to be taught to ask "registered with whom?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Working registries exist too - perfectly legit. This is a problem that the ANKC could soooo easily resolve - come up with a trademarked term to mean ANKC registered. After all, registered with the council is registered - they're not lting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This is a problem that the ANKC could soooo easily resolve - come up with a trademarked term to mean ANKC registered. After all, registered with the council is registered - they're not lting I agree. General Joe Blow will not ask any questions if they read "registered". I have also heard stories of so call registered breeders making up stories as to why they cannot sell their puppies with papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) There is a heck of a lot of confusion. ive friends who have told me they have bought a "registered" dog or puppy. when they show me the "registration" its their microchip papers for council registration????? so to many people "registered" is assumed to mean pedigree but they have no idea what they are supposed to receive for that. In these cases all they have is a lifetime registration with the council one word can sure have a lot of different meanings cant it? Edited January 13, 2012 by asal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 There is also confusion over "papers". My work colleague told me she bought a puppy with papers, turns out it was a payment receipt, a vaccination and worming record and a typed sheet of care details. Not the "papers" I would expect but paperwork nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) That particular breeder has been around a long time and is a registered breeder .Just not an ANKC registered breeder . They have recently completed the new kennel and why you will hear about them more. You had best get used to it . If you don't start qualifying who you are registered with then its no longer what it used to be - assumed it was ANKC. and like it or not some people think that ANKC registered is the lesser one. Times have changed and people can be registered and register their puppies including their pedigrees and give registered pedigrees with their puppies with organisations other than what has been traditionally seen as registered. No point in complaining about it - its here and now best to adjust our language or be promoting those we don't want to promote every time we recommend someone use a registered breeder . Steve, are there other pure breed registries in Australia? Or are you referring to the "self registry" of Designer Breeds and peoples affiliations with other groups that they may be 'registered" members with? There are several other purebred registries in Australia and one other all breeds registry whioch has harder criteria than the ANKC to register puppies there is also at least one other registry which registers breeders who are not breeding purebred dogs who don't want to register their pedigrees and crossbred breeders. That's not counting those who are registered as breeding establishments with their local councils. Edited January 13, 2012 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) That particular breeder has been around a long time and is a registered breeder .Just not an ANKC registered breeder . They have recently completed the new kennel and why you will hear about them more. You had best get used to it . If you don't start qualifying who you are registered with then its no longer what it used to be - assumed it was ANKC. and like it or not some people think that ANKC registered is the lesser one. Times have changed and people can be registered and register their puppies including their pedigrees and give registered pedigrees with their puppies with organisations other than what has been traditionally seen as registered. No point in complaining about it - its here and now best to adjust our language or be promoting those we don't want to promote every time we recommend someone use a registered breeder . Steve, are there other pure breed registries in Australia? Or are you referring to the "self registry" of Designer Breeds and peoples affiliations with other groups that they may be 'registered" members with? I would also like to know this. I am guessing that these other types of registration are not recignised by the ANKC for showing, breeding and the like? That's correct but there are only 6 and a half thousand ANKC registered breeders Australia wide and their numbers are going down. If you want to promote only one lot of registered breeders you need to be specific about what you describe them as. Edited January 13, 2012 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijigs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [ There are several other purebred registries in Australia and one other all breeds registry whioch has harder criteria than the ANKC to register puppies ... Harder criteria than a five generation pedigree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Harder criteria than a five generation pedigree? At least one requires more but when they say registered breeder its the breeder who is registered anyway and not necessarily the pup. You also see harder requirements than ANKC re health issues etc with some. Some registries have a much more difficult COE to comply with than the usual CCs - including the AAPDB .You seem to forget that ANKC breeders can also sell their puppies to pet shops. We simply need to qualify what registry we are talking about when we recommend a registered breeder or we may find we are sending them off to exactly the opposite to those which we intend to be recommending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Harder criteria than a five generation pedigree? At least one requires more but when they say registered breeder its the breeder who is registered anyway and not necessarily the pup. You also see harder requirements than ANKC re health issues etc with some. Some registries have a much more difficult COE to comply with than the usual CCs - including the AAPDB .You seem to forget that ANKC breeders can also sell their puppies to pet shops. We simply need to qualify what registry we are talking about when we recommend a registered breeder or we may find we are sending them off to exactly the opposite to those which we intend to be recommending. groan...it's "cola wars all over again". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Steve do MDBA have their own registry? I saw a site claiming their puppies were eligible for registration with the MDBA, with a link to the website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The MDBA has its own stud registry which is run under the same [almost ] criteria to the ANKC but we also allow those members who qualify and fit the criteria who are working on breeds in development to register their pedigrees on a foundation register. Breeds in development keep their own pedigrees and register them with their own parent club anyway so even if they don't use our foundation registry they are still registered pedigrees. Feels like forever that it has been promoted that people need to go to a registered breeder when they go to buy a puppy. ANKC members have always believed this meant solely them. It never has but no one has seemed to mind or notice that much until tougher regs mean that in some states people who breed dogs have to be registered with their council to do so and until a group which represents those who breed puppies solely for pets and not predictability decided they would try to regulate that sector of dog breeding in a similar way that the ANKC have. Lots of people including the RSPCA think this is a good thing as it means they are at least agreeing to a code of conduct and being regulated to comply with a code more than those who are not members. The MDBA has never used the term to describe our members - because when we say "go to an MDBA member" it may be a purebred breeder member or a purebred or all breeds rescue member,or professional member. It has never been them registering with us but rather joining us. Part of the promotional issue for the ANKC is that each state's CC has a different name and these days people shop for puppies and are exposed to promotional and media stuff which doesnt necessarily apply to their geography.So telling someone to go to a Dogs NSW registered breeder doesn't really help much if you don't live in or buy from NSW. You cant really tell them to go to an ANKC member and consider they dont need to take a better look because cross bred breeders can also be members of the ANKC , they don't have to test etc and many do sell puppies to pet shops. When we started one of the things we considered was how do we ensure that our stuff didn't allow cross bred breeders to be able to have membership and we were assured by every group we went to who said they were able to provide a registered pedigree. We had several members who were breeding dogs which were not recognised by the ANKC but who were breeding dogs which were registered with registries other than the ANKC. In other words all of our breeder members had to be duel members of our group and also the group who kept their pedigree registry. That is no longer the case and dual membership isn't any longer required to qualify for breeder membership. As far as someone saying their puppies are eligible for registration with the MDBA - because most of our members don't list their details on our website if you have any doubt that someone is advertising membership or registration with the MDBA you need to do what you have to do with other groups where people claim membership or registration and you are not sure either ring or email and we will confirm or not. I'm happy to answer questions privately but would prefer not to do any more here as I don't want to be perceived to be promoting the MDBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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