Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[JulesP]

To my mind it doesn't matter what Jake's temperament is like, he was on lead the other dog wasn't. But I can understand your reluctance to make a fuss.

I returned 3 little yappers last week (on separate occasions). All 3 acted very aggressively towards my dogs, just lucky that mine didn't react. Think they are getting used to me rounding up stray dogs!

So tea and sympathy from me. I hope you aren't feeling too sore.

Edited November 30, 2014 by JulesP

[dididog]

So today's the day I've been fearing. I was watching an oncoming leashed dog when an off leash suddenly comes out a driveway at the pair. He had a little go but she managed to shoo him away and kept walking towards us. The stray was following her and when she got next to me I asked if there was someone in the house that the dog had come out of that I could yell to. She said no and she coukdnt help me as she needed to get her dog away. I got Jake behind a car, got a large stick and hoped the dog would stay following its first target.

He got completely past us but then must have seen or smelt us and came at us. I threw the stick but missed and in all the circling around both leads got twisted around my legs and I fell over and got wedged between the car and gutter. Since I had looped jakes halter leash to his collar leash he was very tightly clamped at my feet and their was basically a dog fight happening just out of my reach but on my feet.

It seemed to go on for ages and I was flapping around like a fish until I finally unclipped him and managed to get up and unwind myself. At this point Jake had the dog pinned, he was lying on top of the dog and I pulled him off and a young man came and grabbed the other dog.

I waited around not knowing what to do, my hand was bleeding so I finally just walked home. OH and I got in the car and went to the house the man had gone into, as it turns out he was the owners son, the dog didn't live at the first house I had seen him come out of.

OH checked the dog over and he doesnt have any puncture marks but he's quite small, say spaniel size and I'm worried he's got some bruising that could be a problem later. Owner hadn't taken him to the vet and doesn't intend to. She had a go at OH about Jake being dangerous.

I'm sitting here not knowing what to do or how to feel. If it were a large dog and I had a dog with a normal temperament I'd be reporting it. I have Jake, no way he would survive a temperament test. Plus there's the cute little fluffy against the big ugly bulldog, How can I possibly hope to defend him.

Tea and sympathy requested please.

Crap HD that sounds truly awful for both you and poor Jake! If the council look at the objective facts that you were walking your SUPER restrained dog and an off leash roaming dog had a go at another dog before coming at both of you persistently to the point you were trapped and your dog lashed out to what appears to be little injury to the other, smaller dog. It's not like Jake tore off across the road to attack this dog completely unprovoked, no matter what Jake's attitude toward other dogs is, you were doing everything right and the owners of the little dog everything wrong. Also personally I think a lot of non DA dogs would've done exactly what Jake did in the situation of being rushed at, trapped and owner in vulnerable position so I think it would go in your favour if you feel it's worth reporting, especially seeing as you were injured too. Do you think you could find the other woman that the dog rushed?

Really hoping for both of you that this doesn't ruin all the good work you've been doing. Nobody can argue that you were the irresponsible owner here when you consider the training and management you put towards Jake's issues.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Terri S.

[hankdog]

Thanks guys, I hadn't even thought about Jake thinking I was vulnerable. I'm just playing the what ifs, what if I'd walked the other way, what if I'd yelled for help earlier. What if the dog goes into shock, what if I have to put Jake to sleep. Plus there's the picture in my head of him pinning the dog down, not very nice.

[grumpette]

Oh HD what a nightmare walk you had. Huge hugs to you and Jake.

I am thinking that the owners of the attacking dog are not going to report the incident to council because they cannot be bothered to take the dog to the vet. It also suggests that the dog was not badly hurt, especially if your OH could not find any wounds. Yes the dog most likely will be bruised, but that is all.

I used to walk Dee and Zeph together until the last off lead dog attack. We were walking along the main road, which has log trucks, water tankers and other traffic driving along it, and a Pomeranian ran out of it's open front gate and attacked both dogs. They both grabbed the dog, one on the hips and the other on the shoulders. I yelled drop, so they both dropped. Then I said give, so they both let the dog go. By this time it had stopped screaming and the owner came out of the house. The dog got up and went to the owner, who promptly told it to get inside and kicked it up the arse. Needless to say I was a mixture of furious that the dog was not contained and terrified that the dog was seriously injured.

I took the dogs back home and went back to the house. We looked at the dog and it was a bit wet with slobber and missing a bit of fur, but no puncture wounds. I do not know how. I went around there the next day and the dog was a bit bruised and sore, but still as crazy as before. At least the gate was closed.

So if my 45-50kg dogs did not severely hurt the Pomeranian, them I don't think that Jake would have hurt a spaniel sized dog.

Time for some bloody good Chocolate and a good stiff drink. I hope that you are doing better today.

I now walk them one at a time, as the gate is sometimes open and the dog rushes halfway down the driveway.

[raineth]

Bloody hell HD! Forget the cup of tea, you need something stronger!

I think you should report it, Jake was on lead and the other dog wasn't, and that is all that matters. Also you fell over and got injured, it could have been a lot worse for everyone.

When Del got attacked by a dog that was tied to its letter box and broke its rope to get to her, and she defended herself against this dog, it was the other dog's owner that got in trouble. We didn't get in trouble because I had my dog leashed, it didn't matter that Del was bigger (probably by about 10 kilos) and that she had defended herself (like your situation, there were no punctures). So I am pretty sure as long as your dog is on lead the Rangers will be on your side.

I hope you and Jake are recovering ok.

[BC Crazy]

Oh dear Hankdog what a terrifying ordeal for you both. Are you are both OK? Very lucky you weren't bitten or dragged along the ground like me HD. Tar wouldn't be as forgiving as sand. Hope your hand heals quickly. Darn roaming aggressive are my biggest fear. Double brandy perhaps just to take the edge off.

[hankdog]

Well I was reading up on the dangerous dog stuff and it would seem if they make a fuss then he could be temp tested. We pretty much keep within the guidelines anyway except for the muzzle. The muzzles for Bulldogs are pretty much like an aquanauts helmet and there's no way I could treat him through it so that whole avenue of training, which has been the most effective so far, would be lost to us.

The bite to my hand is from the other dog, if I curl my hand into a fist then the marks line up to a small dogs bite so although it won't help Jake it wouldn't be in their best interests to start something.

It was quite a hairy dog and although Jaje has a big jaw his bottom jaw protrudes about 3cm out from his top jaw. I guess he probably wouldn't be able to do a lot of damage, his modus operandi seemed to be to try squash the dog with his chest.

I wasn't going to go out today but by ten he was beside himself so I just went out for a short walk. We met some nice people who patted and treated him which helped me calm down. I treated myself to a nice new treat pouch from k9pro and a lovely new harness.....no grumbles from OH about more dog gear. I'm working with sympathy right now????.

[grumpette]

The hardest thing is regaining your confidence and keeping the anxiety down while you are out for a walk, especially straight after an incident.

I still have to make sure that I go to the toilet just before I walk Dee, in case something happens and I pee my pants.

Milk the situation for all it is worth I say HD :D

[hankdog]

Haha yes I always make sure the bladders not going to give way. I used to be a three coffee morning girl but now I have only one before we walk. We get home and Jake runs to his pool and I run to the coffee pot.

[Jemmy]

I hope you're doing OK this evening hankdog, what a horrible thing to experience. I understand your hesitation with calling the council, I hope the other dogs owner is more responsible in the future!

[BC Crazy]

Sorry HD you were bitten by the other dog. I re read your post as I sometimes dont take in things clearly. Poor lady. I hope you are fairing a little better tonight. I too would be reluctant to muzzle Jake given the rather extreme type ones that suit his breed type.

PS... I 2nd milking the situation for some lovely new dog gear LOL ;)

[hankdog]

Well nothing happened today so hopefully it all goes away. Another road I can't walk down and the owners a friend of a friend so we shall see how that goes. Unfortunately it's on a loop that takes me to a very nice gardener friends house, I can't go around the other way because of another set of dogs. It's not easy owning a difficult dog but then it's a good lesson in understanding how people with more serious limitations have to deal with life.

In our family when someone has to deal with trials we always joke about how they're filling up their character suitcase. I'm buying a second suitcase. Retail therapy right there.

[BC Crazy]

I had a very interesting day with Stella today. As Sonny has been to the Vets with a jaw injury, he wasn't able to go out today but is thankfully going to be OK anyway I decided to take Stella out on her own. She behaved like. well, 'the perfect dog'. She did everything I asked her to do which she pretty much does anyway BUT our meet & greet with other dogs went wonderfully well. She didn't charge up to them nor did she show any signs of being upset/uncomfortable or aggressive by there presence. She greeted them politely, then slowly kept going on her merry way & all the body language was relaxed. We did a short basic training session & sat & people watched for a bit, she was fine with that also. I am definitely going to continue with outings on her own. Who knows maybe this is what she will thrive on. I always was concerned she would unravel emotionally on her own but looks like I may have been wrong. She does suffer with separation anxiety when I take Sonny away if OH isn't home though.

Was wondering what others think about how different she behaves on her own & I for one am wondering why??? Maybe some of her reactive behaviour is a pack type thing or something. Thoughts appreciated.

[Simply Grand]

I'd suggest either she is more confident when Sonny is there and therefore more willing to react OR she is protective of Sonny and feels she has to defend him. Other option is that he actually stresses her so she's closer to threshold when he's around so it takes less to push her over.

I know Riley has always been much less likely to react when he is at a distance from me and I believe it's because he's less confident when he's not near someone he knows will (in his mind) back him up.

What is the interaction between the two of them usually like BCC?

[BC Crazy]

Interesting SG. I think she is much more confident when he is with her. She always shoots him a glance when she is in doubt of what is going on around her. Or she will " check in " with him either nuzzle him & put her nose in his ear. Kind of nip at his face too like whats going on Sonny. She has always lent on him emotionally IMO. Sonny wears the pants. They get on extremely well. Sonny is very easy going & pretty much bomb proof. A very steadying influence on Stella.

I was so surprised she was so comfortable without him though as when she was younger I used to take her places on her own but she would have an emotional melt down quite quickly.

Maybe with maturity she is more confident in her own skin perhaps. Thats what Im leaning towards.

My plan is to maybe walk them together in the morning & in the

arvo separate & gradually extend her time alone, also vary what we do. I want to build her confidence & in turn improve her coping skill.

Edited December 4, 2014 by BC Crazy

[Simply Grand]

Ok so it sounds like she may not be confident enough to react externally when he isn't there to support her. It could be having two different effects internally. It could be that with the choice taken away from her she is actually more relaxed - as in "well I can't fight these things that worry me so I may as well try and just accept them" Alternatively she could be feeling very uncomfortable and shutting down to some degree just waiting for the situation to be over.

Either way I think it's a really good opportunity for you to condition a different mind set for her. So because she isn't in that over threshold exploding mind set you can actually get through to her and teach her some new associations and behaviours. You should be making all the decisions for her so she learns that whether Sonny is there or not you will be in charge of the situation and she does not need to make decisions for herself. Once she gets that you'll be better placed to stop her from reacting when Sonny is there and if she gains more confidence on her own. So lots of training stops during outings, you decide when she can stop and sniff and how long for, you decide that some dogs won't be approached at all, some you'll go near but keep walking and others you may greet but keep it super short, give her lots of positive feedback and food/toy rewards and you decide when to move on with a cheerful "let's go" or something before she has any negative experiences. You don't want her deciding for herself whether or not she interacts with other dogs whether its friendly or not, and you always want to be rewarding her in some way for following your lead.

She should start to learn that you won't put her in dangerous situations and will get her out of things if necessary then start to trust you when you tell her she doesn't need to react :)

[BC Crazy]

Exactly Simply G, don't think Stella is confident enough to react on her own. She used to shut down on her own when I took her out that's why I started taking them together to try & get her to relax but that is what really surprised me yesterday she was quite relaxed on her own. She was trying to engage me a lot as well, which was great. As I'm not very well atm & am having difficulty walking so I was doing most things with her sitting down & unfortunately am unable to engage with her as I normally would .ie. run around playing tugs/fetch etc, so I hope I'm not sending a negitive response to her as she is very sensitive girl & picks up on my body language very well. I'm using my voice though a lot more to try & compensate, encouraging/praising her. In time her confidence should grow. I will follow your suggestion & make choices for her.

Appreciate your help SG :)

[hankdog]

I'm sorry you're not well. Is Stella also following your lowered energy. When I used to work with groups of little kids I found they were very responsive to my energy level, if I just sat calmly and spoke very quietly the whole room would slow down whereas if I was yelling over them to be quiet then that would just rev everyone up.

So its been a weird week. We have stayed in text contact with our adversaries owner, I know this is probably contrary to legal opinion but we just wanted to do what was right regardless. When OH checked the dog over the owner had found a red mark on his rear which surprised me as I didn't think Jake had connected except with the one front hold. Anyway mid week the dog was showing some stiffness and so they took him to the vet and they found it was a tick bite and we have just heard he didn't make it. I feel awful for them, they're a lovely person and very sad to lose their dog. I don't know whether to go round or not. I'm probably the last person they want to see but I'm not sure if they're sitting at home upset alone. RIP little dog, we didn't meet under great circumstances but maybe we will meet better next time.

[BC Crazy]

Thanks Hankdog for your concern :) Just found out I have a chronic condition with no cure so I'm really going to put thinking cap on & come up with lots of different training things, mental stimulation exercises I can teach them sitting down. This is going to kill me because I'm not a sitting down type of person but I will have to learn to be now

Any ideas folks would be greatly appreciated....

I was wondering the exact same thing regarding the lowered energy level thing. Even when I took them both out this morning Stella isn't going through her paces with nearly the same speed as she normally would & sometimes she'd just run right up to me & sit & stare right into my eye's, then lay down next to me. So sweet really but not even wanting to chase her beloved ball or anything. She's picking up something isn't quite right with me I believe.

Gee, that dog passed away. I understand how awful you must feel, I'd be exactly the same way & am unsure whether I'd go around there or not. Darn ticks. RIP little doggie.

With an undershot jaw like Jake has I think it would be very hard for him to actually leave a puncture mark on anything as he wouldn't be able to get his jaws closed together would he?

[hankdog]

There's about three centimetres between his top and bottom canines so he can't actually do damage that way. He really struggles to pull meat off bones because he can't grip stuff and has to use his back teeth. He does weigh in at 26kg though with most of that being in his torso, his main "weapon" would be his weight.

Does Stella do send aways? I taught Jake the "touch" command and I put an object down and tell him to touch, the just work on stepping away and giving the same command, I do it to encourage his confidence away from me but if you got some distance you could get her running back and forth.

Get two hoops, click for getting in hoop one, then no more clicks until gets in the second hoop. Eventually you should be able to get her going from you to hoop1, you to hoop2. Jake just lies down and refuses to play once the hoops are about 2m apart but I'm sure Stella would be better.

Also my favourite 101 things to do with a box.

Edited December 5, 2014 by hankdog