Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[Poppy's mum]

Also being a top obedience/dog sport competitor or instructor doesn't necessarily equal being a top behaviourist.

That's a very true statement I think, reactive dogs are a handful and take up far too much training time for sporting trainers to waste their training time on dogs like this and generally set their sporting achievements with dogs of greater stability to begin with. Same with motivating high drive dogs for sport is so easy compared with motivating a couch potato. I think as far as trainers/behaviourists go, it's best to select the one's experienced at what you are trying to achieve with your dog?

All so true!

Hopefully, there will be a bit of a shake-up later this year when Grisha Stewart comes to talk about "Behaviour Adjustment Therapy" (books and DVDs) at the APDT annual conference in Sydney. It's time the dog trainers around opened their minds to some new ideas. A good 'obedience instructor' is not necessarily suited to reactive dog training. It's a whole other field of knowledge.

[flame ryder]

I have been reading this thread with much interest as I have a fear aggressive dog. I used to take her to obedience classes but I stopped taking her because I could see it was making other members and their dogs uncomfortable. Also I got sick of all the different ideas, and when I'd try something myself (after all this is MY dog and I know her best) they'd say "oh don't do that, do this..." yadda yadda. I instead leave her home now on a Sunday morning and concentrate on my other two. It's a pitty as I think she would make such an excellent obedience dog. She gives all other dogs in the class the stink eye then like the stealth just lunges without warning. She's fine with people and our other 2 dogs.

In answer to the original question...how do I exercise her off lead? Easy where I live is rural and when we walk out in the forest we have never once encountered other dogs or people. However there are many Kangaroos who she will think about chasing, lucky for us she will listen when we tell her NO and has excellent recall. Also the beaches around here are beautiful and wild and fantastic for exercising dogs off lead...there's hardly anyone else in summer and no one is mad enough to go there in the depths of winter (except us). So all in all it works well for us and our fear aggressive dog...however if circumstances were different I would seriously re-think about keeping her.

I don't have big bucks to spend on behaviour specialists but enjoy reading any info i can, hoping one day I can take her for a walk in town, or back to obedience classes without incident. I am currently on the library waiting list for Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed.

[BC Crazy]

I think the problem with having a reactive dog class is getting instructors who have multiple tools in their training box and not just one method. Having participated in a reactive dog class with 10-12 other reactive dogs, with the only command being shouted by the instructor was "feed/feed/feed" and 50% of the class with dogs that were not food orientated,let me tell you, it was not my idea of "fun". The second week, only six dogs/handlers turned up - one would have thought this would have been food for thought on the training regime but no. Same ritual, same result and ridicule for those that didn't show. Needless to say, I have never returned to that club.

Move forward one year, K9 Pro programs and we now belong to two All-Breeds clubs who have no problem with me working my agenda on the outskirts of a class if need be. We are still a "work in progress" with the majority of learning being done by this handler :) but unless you have owned a reactive dog you cannot begin to understand the frustration that these handlers go through. Add that to being treated like you have a contagious disease and it can be a very lonely existence with the majority of these dogs consigned to a life in the backyard only.

Yes it does seem to isolate you when you own a reactive dog. I keep well away from other with dogs most of the time as it is not worth 'making a scene'. I used to walk with friends pre Stella days with just Sonny but Stella has

scared everyone & their dogs away. So we go solo now. Most people take a wide birth around us when they see us coming.

[megan_]

There is a new DVD with free shipping re: reactive dogs. It takes a program approach and looks pretty good

[Skye GSD]

Yes it does seem to isolate you when you own a reactive dog. I keep well away from other with dogs most of the time as it is not worth 'making a scene'. I used to walk with friends pre Stella days with just Sonny but Stella has scared everyone & their dogs away. So we go solo now. Most people take a wide birth around us when they see us coming.

Knew that feeling well a year ago - apart from the lunging I couldn't even have a conversation with anyone because I couldn't hear what they were saying due to Skye barking so naturally people avoided us like the plague. Now people stop and comment on my well-trained dog so makes the hard work so worthwhile. I definitely hear what you're saying BC Crazy - good luck for next Friday!

[megan_]

There is a new DVD with free shipping re: reactive dogs. It takes a program approach and looks pretty good

Do you have any details about it or where it can be bought from?

Oops cleanrun.com - go to the stores free shipping section

[hankdog]

Mmmm I think this thread could well be titled support group for reactive dog owners... After all we are a group that could never meet. I never thought I'd say it but yay for the internet.

[Skye GSD]

Mmmm I think this thread could well be titled support group for reactive dog owners... After all we are a group that could never meet. I never thought I'd say it but yay for the internet.

:laugh: DITTO!!!

[Miz J]

Thanks for letting me know about this thread Snook. I have a trio of boxers, one is selectively dog reactive and is deaf, I mean really deaf. Can pose a bit of a problem. He and we have been throught a delta program, he does really well till his space is encroached. I am pretty sure its fear based, flight or fight and he more often than not will fight. He is exceptionally responsive to training and when we get his attention its so easy. He can be distracted easily by food but considering hes 40kg I dont want to push that issue any more. Attempting to teach check in right now so will see how he goes. He seems pretty fixated on small dogs that move quickly. He doesnt exhibit the classical signs such as the hair standing, posturing or growl. We have picked up on a few subtle things he will do. His head drops ever so slightly and thats really about it. Hes a bloody sniper. He has been to a dog park a few times with a very controlled bunch of dogs and owners. Because he is deaf he will never be off lead in an unfenced area.

In regard to the back packs cannot recommend them enough. I have one for my youngest boxer, hes a lunatic and a beautiful clown. The dog loves every one and every other animal he meets. He goes to the shops with his back pack on and its loaded on the way back. He even carries the OJ and the paper. Hes knackered when he gets home. Hes a highly energetic dog.

[m-sass]

apart from the lunging I couldn't even have a conversation with anyone because I couldn't hear what they were saying due to Skye barking

My old boy was fine with people but had massive dog aggression, and I remember the fist time I stopped and spoke with another dog walker, had my boy in a drop beside me and he didn't arc up at all WOW.......felt like I had just won a world obedience title And the first time we went to the vet and didn't have to sneak him in through the back door in case he saw another dog. People who haven't had a reactive dog think you are nuts getting excited over your dog not playing up, but it's a massive achievement and a real breakthrough when your program starts to get reliable results.

I never reached a point a with my old boy where I could confidently let him off the leash with strange dogs, but he was good under leash control in the end, and I bought a new puppy who became his best friend, that was something I doubted could ever be achieved well introducing another dog into the home, but having a puppy helped him to enjoy dogs instead of wanting to kill them it seemed, after 6 months with the pup, he was far more relaxed around dogs in general.

It took me a couple of years to really get a handle on my old boy's behaviour and make a permanent change, but having that experience and conquering it, I admire and respect people with reactive dogs who dedicate themselves to give rehabiliation a red hot go, it's so worth the effort and the learning framework achieved in the end :D

My old boy was my 6th Retriever, I think a victim of chasing conformation in the breeding over temperament, but was unusual for a Goldie to be DA as a rule of thumb, so most people blamed me for his behaviour, what I didn't do right in his upbringing to the point I was starting to believe it, but the DA was in the dog, he was just a crappy breeding temperament wise with a lovely conformation, you get that in some dogs, and people do sling blame at us for owning reactive dogs, my advice there is don't listen to it and just concentrate on a program to get through it. :)

Obviously we desexed him and didn't use him at stud, but the desexing made absolutely no difference to his reactive behaviour in the slightest, many advise desexing a male as the first step in rehabilitation, it may help in some situations perhaps, but in my case it made no difference whatsoever??

Edited April 22, 2012 by m-sass

[SammieS]

Mmmm I think this thread could well be titled support group for reactive dog owners... After all we are a group that could never meet. I never thought I'd say it but yay for the internet.

:laugh: DITTO!!!

I agree!

[SammieS]

apart from the lunging I couldn't even have a conversation with anyone because I couldn't hear what they were saying due to Skye barking

My old boy was fine with people but had massive dog aggression, and I remember the fist time I stopped and spoke with another dog walker, had my boy in a drop beside me and he didn't arc up at all WOW.......felt like I had just won a world obedience title And the first time we went to the vet and didn't have to sneak him in through the back door in case he saw another dog. People who haven't had a reactive dog think you are nuts getting excited over your dog not playing up, but it's a massive achievement and a real breakthrough when your program starts to get reliable results.

I never reached a point a with my old boy where I could confidently let him off the leash with strange dogs, but he was good under leash control in the end, and I bought a new puppy who became his best friend, that was something I doubted could ever be achieved well introducing another dog into the home, but having a puppy helped him to enjoy dogs instead of wanting to kill them it seemed, after 6 months with the pup, he was far more relaxed around dogs in general.

It took me a couple of years to really get a handle on my old boy's behaviour and make a permanent change, but having that experience and conquering it, I admire and respect people with reactive dogs who dedicate themselves to give rehabiliation a red hot go, it's so worth the effort and the learning framework achieved in the end :D

My old boy was my 6th Retriever, I think a victim of chasing conformation in the breeding over temperament, but was unusual for a Goldie to be DA as a rule of thumb, so most people blamed me for his behaviour, what I didn't do right in his upbringing to the point I was starting to believe it, but the DA was in the dog, he was just a crappy breeding temperament wise with a lovely conformation, you get that in some dogs, and people do sling blame at us for owning reactive dogs, my advice there is don't listen to it and just concentrate on a program to get through it. :)

Obviously we desexed him and didn't use him at stud, but the desexing made absolutely no difference to his reactive behaviour in the slightest, many advise desexing a male as the first step in rehabilitation, it may help in some situations perhaps, but in my case it made no difference whatsoever??

thank you for this post... its made me feel normal!

[BC Crazy]

Mmmm I think this thread could well be titled support group for reactive dog owners... After all we are a group that could never meet. I never thought I'd say it but yay for the internet.

I was thinking the exact same thing hankdog. Yay !! for the support group & the internet. :D

[nawnim]

...

Edited June 1, 2012 by padraic

[Leema]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned in this thread (I haven't read the whole thing), but here's an article:

How to Exercise Your Dog Without Leaving the House

http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/01/16/indoor-exercise/

[megan_]

Great resource Leema.

Snook - they have a review of the TACT DVD that I linked to earlier. It was written by the authors of Click to Calm. Next pay I'm going to get it.

They also have a link to TACT Caregiver's Fatigue, but it really applies to all of us dealing with aggressive/reactive dogs: http://www.tactdogs.com/caregivers-fatigue

Lucy is an odd bod because in controlled situations she is perfect. She does agility off lead near other dogs & people and is fine. She trained with 2 labs she had never met at a new location on the weekend and did beautifully.

But if a stranger tries to come into her house - even if they aren't a stranger and she has known them for years - she will try to take them out. Literally. My sister is here at the moment and I have to keep the bitches physically separated. It is so stressful and tiring for all of us.

[megan_]

I'll just add, set aside 1/2 an hour to have a look at the other blog posts in the link that Leema posted. It is PURE GOLD. You must read it! Even simple suggestions like teaching your dog an emergency U-Turn command and practicing your "Voice of God" to ward off stray dogs all make life that little bit easier.

I play a body blocking "game" with Lucy at home so that, in an emergency, if I have to shove my body against her up against a fence/wall, she knows what I'm doing and stays calm.

[SammieS]

oh Snook! I totally understand where you are coming from, those rules all make sense and we were given a similar set by our trainer - I also don't mind having Asti on the couch or the bed with us and its nice to have her on her own accord want to sit next to you on the couch or move slightly on the bed just so her paw is slightly touching you... its cute and warms the heart :D

Like Justice, Asti is the calmest and most gorgous dog at home, its just when she's out and about and the environment changes suddenly (dogs, noises... kids zooming down the hill on bikes) she can't deal with it! I just wish that the rest of the world see what we see at home

Some progress that I've made lately is that I have been following up on Asti's fence barking by putting her in time out each and every time! By giving her the 'cue' word first gives her the opportunity to choose to come away from the fence otherwise i'll go over to get her and she'll spend some time in the bathroom away from everyone else. This is working better than expected, until we visited a new puppy school with Angus I never thought that timeout could work on dogs like it does on children! The problem is remembering which timeout word is for which dog! so Angus gets "too bad" and Asti gets "loser" and we make it sound like they've won a price so that it doesn't sound like we're getting frustrated with the situation. Angus has spent so much time in timeout that I say "too bad" and he takes himself off to his crate! :laugh:

[hankdog]

oh Snook! I totally understand where you are coming from, those rules all make sense and we were given a similar set by our trainer - I also don't mind having Asti on the couch or the bed with us and its nice to have her on her own accord want to sit next to you on the couch or move slightly on the bed just so her paw is slightly touching you... its cute and warms the heart :D

Like Justice, Asti is the calmest and most gorgous dog at home, its just when she's out and about and the environment changes suddenly (dogs, noises... kids zooming down the hill on bikes) she can't deal with it! I just wish that the rest of the world see what we see at home

Some progress that I've made lately is that I have been following up on Asti's fence barking by putting her in time out each and every time! By giving her the 'cue' word first gives her the opportunity to choose to come away from the fence otherwise i'll go over to get her and she'll spend some time in the bathroom away from everyone else. This is working better than expected, until we visited a new puppy school with Angus I never thought that timeout could work on dogs like it does on children! The problem is remembering which timeout word is for which dog! so Angus gets "too bad" and Asti gets "loser" and we make it sound like they've won a price so that it doesn't sound like we're getting frustrated with the situation. Angus has spent so much time in timeout that I say "too bad" and he takes himself off to his crate! :laugh:

The problem with all our reactive dogs is they're just too cute for their own good!! SammieS I would have huge trouble disciplining your doggies.

Edited April 24, 2012 by hankdog

[hankdog]

Just when I think I'm may be making headway... We walk twice a day,, morning is a long training walk evening a short relaxing walk before bed. I have 3 roads I can take out the driveway, once we've had a dog rush us Jake remembers and goes into "dog hunt" mode if we take that road, head up, running to the end of his leash range and back etc. Our 3rd road was ruined 2 nights ago by 2 roaming fluffies. So I set off with my daughter on our evening walk and he starts with his nonsense, I'm throwing u-turns and sits and it's making no impact. So I ask him to down ... no way. If you know a bulldog once their shoulders are braced you will not push them into a down. So I lift him up, fold in the four legs and put him down.

He immeadiately rolls onto his back and stays there. Great, time to walk "get up Jake."

"Not on your life. You put me here and here I'm staying."

So there we are, lying on the side of the road, I've moved to the end of the leash and turned my back on him and he just lay there for what felt like forever before he finally rolled over and strolled up for the rest of his walk.

Sometimes he's just a jerk!!