ChristineX Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Hankdog - that sounds awful! Here's hoping for a speedy healing. I make jewellery for fun, and Duke in particular likes to 'move' them around the place. fortunatly, no misadventures (yet). Nekhbet, that's a very kind offer! Hankdog, I have no idea of the distances involved, (did I mention, geographically challanged?) but that has got you two really good options with two really good people. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 The school is in Victoria, available for anyone that wants to join a school set up with the experience and facilities of reactive dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Well Kurrajong is just a bit over an hour away so we'll definitely get there once we've recovered. He's now know as a "billdog" rather than a "bulldog". I have as a goal to attend an obedience class but I'm not sure how that works for reactive dogs. Do they gradually just calm down and stop carrying on or do you sit on the sidelines for a few weeks? I'm doing the sit/stay protocol, first day was easy and I see the beginning of this forum has a pinned excecise called triangle of temptation that I think we could work on but I'm concerned about over doing everything and causing too much stress if every aspect of his life is so much of a trial? Has anyone done this with their dog? Thankyou for the replies, very much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Well Kurrajong is just a bit over an hour away so we'll definitely get there once we've recovered. He's now know as a "billdog" rather than a "bulldog". I have as a goal to attend an obedience class but I'm not sure how that works for reactive dogs. Do they gradually just calm down and stop carrying on or do you sit on the sidelines for a few weeks? I'm doing the sit/stay protocol, first day was easy and I see the beginning of this forum has a pinned excecise called triangle of temptation that I think we could work on but I'm concerned about over doing everything and causing too much stress if every aspect of his life is so much of a trial? Has anyone done this with their dog? Thankyou for the replies, very much appreciated. I do Triangle of Temptation (TOT) and Nothing In Life is Free (NILIF) with my boy. He LOVES having a 'job' to do so the NILIF is great. I also reward for specific behaviours- I am trying to get my low drive dog to fetch a tennis ball for me so every time she has a ball in her mouth I make a fuss and give her a cuddle. This has resulted in her looking for a ball or toy and bringing it too me when she wants attention because she knows that the rule is she always gets rewarded for it (for the time being- I usually set the criteria harder as training progresses)- it gives her some control in her life. I do similar things with my reactive boy and just like her he really enjoys that he can 'turn on the cuddles' when he wants one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineX Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Hi Hankdog, love the BillDog Every obediance club will be different - but it can be doable. Duke and I still attend obd classes as well as reactive rover classes. Okay, the first two years (lots of fear was part of Duke's problems) we spent 30 metres away from everyone else, I would basically copy whatever class I attached myself to (not beginners - they just don't have enough control to keep a reactive dog calm) so if they were working on sit/stay, so was I. At 2.5 years, we managed to join a class! There are still days when we spend time at a distance, but its more like 5-10 metres, and its usually if something has upset Duke. The trainers are happy for me to choose what I do. Over the past year, though, I now spend the first couple of weeks 'helping out' with the beginners - if someone is having lots of trouble or a reactive dog rather than the trainer spending their time helping, I'll do that to get them off to a good start. Oh yeah, Duke stays in the car until everyone is in their class - not having milling dogs around helps a lot! :) Luck and fun with the BillDog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) My suggestion is to go to the school first without your dog and have a look around. Some of the large clubs are not at all suitable for reactive dogs IMO - lots of chaos, dogs being allowed to say hello to strange dogs, some classes INSIST that all dogs get forced into a big group to say hello at the start of a session (this happened to me at a polular, well known club in Melbourne)! The best classes for reactive dogs that I have found are small, privately run classes with instructors who are suitably qualified to deal with reactive dogs. Unfortunately these cost more than the volunteer run classes. ETA: I suggest also learning about the "Look at that" game as you can use it to keep your dog below the threshold. Edited April 19, 2012 by megan_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Some of the large clubs are not at all suitable for reactive dogs IMO - lots of chaos, dogs being allowed to say hello to strange dogs, some classes INSIST that all dogs get forced into a big group to say hello at the start of a session (this happened to me at a polular, well known club in Melbourne)! oh my god are you kidding that would freak me out let alone the dog Thats why we have the red bandana rule, any dogs wearing them never get approached by other dogs or people. People already have learned to give red bandana dogs about a 5m berth :laugh: That and the rule is no approaching dogs without the owners express permissions anyway, bandana or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) I'm a volunteer instructor at our local dog club, I agree, go and visit the club and ask some questions first. Our classes aren't suitable for highly reactive dogs as there are just too many dogs out on the field and no matter how much people are told, some will still not give a wide enough berth. I have some mildly reactive dogs in my class who are managed quite easily, as well as a moderately reactive one who has caused no issues so far. I give a little spiel in my first class about the "rules", not letting dogs eyeball each other, suitable spacing between dogs, recognising signs and moving away, etc. Though this is not something all our instructors do. Many have no experience with reactive dogs. We cannot afford to be picky unless more people volunteer! That being said, I think that more work needs to be done with most of these dogs as group classes (at least like ours, who are not specifically set up for dogs with issues) help but often don't seem to translate to "the outside world". My own dogs certainly behave differently on their morning walk then they do at dog club! Edit: Our syllabus does include a "meet and greet" type exercise which is included in assessment. However, owners specify whether they would actually like the dogs to meet, and if they say no, they are allowed to stop 2m away (dogs on opposite sides of handlers) and continue walking without the dogs meeting. Edited April 20, 2012 by wuffles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Oh boy I'm starting to understand why the behaviorist seemed to think he was wild and sent the other dog away. If Jake actually sees a dog he will bark, today he saw one at the other side of the football pitch and I thought he did well because twice I managed to get him to leave off barking and look at me and he didn't pull on the lead!! 10m away is a bit of a dream right now. On the plus side doing the sit/stay protocol seems to have made something click in his head, he got complimented by a ladies walking group for being so well behaved on the lead, staying left at heel and sitting at each cross street! Thanks ladies I'll take any positive feedback right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye GSD Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Well Kurrajong is just a bit over an hour away so we'll definitely get there once we've recovered. I see the beginning of this forum has a pinned excecise called triangle of temptation that I think we could work on but I'm concerned about over doing everything and causing too much stress if every aspect of his life is so much of a trial? Has anyone done this with their dog? Thankyou for the replies, very much appreciated. You will be in good hands with Steve Courtney. I use Triangle of Temptation every day - you have to feed your dog every day so it is an easy program to put in to place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Personally I wouldn't take a highly reactive dog to a typical group obedience class. I train at a club that does have good rules- all dogs on lead at all times, it is recommended not to let your dog approach another dog without asking, but of course many people, especially new members ignore this rule. Also its sort of sensory overload even for dogs that are not reactive. Perhaps if you could arrange to work by yourself at a larger distance from the main groups it may work? I know sometimes the instructors will help out a person with a reactive dog one on one which is great but depends on number of instructors available. Also being a top obedience/dog sport competitor or instructor doesn't necessarily equal being a top behaviourist. Good luck with K9pro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-sass Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Also being a top obedience/dog sport competitor or instructor doesn't necessarily equal being a top behaviourist. That's a very true statement I think, reactive dogs are a handful and take up far too much training time for sporting trainers to waste their training time on dogs like this and generally set their sporting achievements with dogs of greater stability to begin with. Same with motivating high drive dogs for sport is so easy compared with motivating a couch potato. I think as far as trainers/behaviourists go, it's best to select the one's experienced at what you are trying to achieve with your dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-sass Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Some of the large clubs are not at all suitable for reactive dogs IMO - lots of chaos, dogs being allowed to say hello to strange dogs, some classes INSIST that all dogs get forced into a big group to say hello at the start of a session (this happened to me at a polular, well known club in Melbourne)! oh my god are you kidding that would freak me out let alone the dog Thats why we have the red bandana rule, any dogs wearing them never get approached by other dogs or people. People already have learned to give red bandana dogs about a 5m berth :laugh: That and the rule is no approaching dogs without the owners express permissions anyway, bandana or not. The red bandana rule is GREAT idea So many clubs just don't cater well for reactive dogs, apart from making the owners feel like complete knobs because their dog's react or their dogs are not welcome because of their reactivity, it can present a real problem for people trying to get effective training for dogs like this. Sometimes all you need is the exposure and atmoshere to slowly bring a reactive dog into for it to settle and gain confidence in that environment. Given that reactive dogs are potentially dangerous, I would be more inclined to embrace these dogs and owners instead of turning them away and I think more clubs need to have a reactive dog section to help these dogs and people who own them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I am so enjoying this thread as my girl is very reactive to most things. She certainly wouldn't be suited to any group class of any type ATM so I am starting off in private lessons on Friday which I am really looking forward to. Sure they are expensive but am convinced in the long term they will pay off big time for both her & I will have a more settled & confident girl. Hopefully when we improve & I learn some better coping mechanism's we will be able to fit into a group class Well that is the plan anyway. Cause I would love to do agility one day. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye GSD Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I think the problem with having a reactive dog class is getting instructors who have multiple tools in their training box and not just one method. Having participated in a reactive dog class with 10-12 other reactive dogs, with the only command being shouted by the instructor was "feed/feed/feed" and 50% of the class with dogs that were not food orientated,let me tell you, it was not my idea of "fun". The second week, only six dogs/handlers turned up - one would have thought this would have been food for thought on the training regime but no. Same ritual, same result and ridicule for those that didn't show. Needless to say, I have never returned to that club. Move forward one year, K9 Pro programs and we now belong to two All-Breeds clubs who have no problem with me working my agenda on the outskirts of a class if need be. We are still a "work in progress" with the majority of learning being done by this handler :) but unless you have owned a reactive dog you cannot begin to understand the frustration that these handlers go through. Add that to being treated like you have a contagious disease and it can be a very lonely existence with the majority of these dogs consigned to a life in the backyard only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-sass Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I think the problem with having a reactive dog class is getting instructors who have multiple tools in their training box and not just one method. Having participated in a reactive dog class with 10-12 other reactive dogs, with the only command being shouted by the instructor was "feed/feed/feed" and 50% of the class with dogs that were not food orientated,let me tell you, it was not my idea of "fun". The second week, only six dogs/handlers turned up - one would have thought this would have been food for thought on the training regime but no. Same ritual, same result and ridicule for those that didn't show. Needless to say, I have never returned to that club. Move forward one year, K9 Pro programs and we now belong to two All-Breeds clubs who have no problem with me working my agenda on the outskirts of a class if need be. We are still a "work in progress" with the majority of learning being done by this handler :) but unless you have owned a reactive dog you cannot begin to understand the frustration that these handlers go through. Add that to being treated like you have a contagious disease and it can be a very lonely existence with the majority of these dogs consigned to a life in the backyard only. Reactivity is a little outside of the general obedience instructor's field I think and to be successful there needs to be a lot of experience and a box full of tools to cater for the individual reactive dog. Too often the owners of reactive dogs are blamed unfairly in the way the dog was raised which IMHO for the most part is nonesense, reactivity is in the dog or it's not. Experience how to raise a dog correctly who has reactive tendancies is a ball game beyond the raising of a dog who hasn't got a reactive bone in it's body which can only be learned by owning a reactive dog and working through it with a trainer who knows how to manange the behaviour, but to blame the owner as many do, I think is most discouraging for them. Anyone can say what a wonderful job they have done raising a non reactive dog, give the same people a genetically reactive dog and see how good they are then??. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineX Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 M-Sass - exactly! I've been very lucky, when my dog club realised that Duke was outside of their coping abilities, they referred me on to Kathy - and still gave me massive support! But,every single person in the club at one time or other has also said,that Duke is not a dog they would take on or keep. Okay, I'm a bit of a masochist, but like a lot of reactive dogs, he's worth the effort, and he has increased my dog handling skills immensely. Its also why I am happy to donate my time and energy when we get another similar dog thru - those classes are always followed up with a discussion amongst all the trainers (and me) as to whether the owner and dog fit into our general classes, or need to be referred on. We have about 3 different people we refer to, depending on the problem. I've also turned into a bit of a cheerleader for people with reactive dogs - that they can achieve a much better behaved dog, even though it's going to take time. A lot of reactive dog owners feel very alone and demoralised - we all need good support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye GSD Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 m-sass & ChristineX - we are on the same page I, too, am hoping to be able to pass my knowledge on to others at club level and will certainly look at instructing again when my wild child is a little older and wiser :D Having trained three other dogs at different times to high level obedience and also instructed in the past, nothing prepared me for my reactive girl so it has been a whole new learning curve. Just wish I could have had the knowledge I have now when she was a puppy and things could have progressed so much quicker. Still, we should never stop learning and it has certainly given me so much empathy for other reactive dog owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-sass Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Behaviour modification of a reactive dog I think is by far the hardest thing to train out and is truly a remakable achievement when someone does rehabilitate a reactive dog, it's not easy and is too easy to exceed thresholds and have to start over again, but the learing capacity in doing so is priceless, I think every would be enthusiast trainer/handler needs one reactive dog to train in their lifetime. Although I don't want another reactive or DA dog by choice, I owe the most I learned about training and behaviour to my old reactive boy, and I actually feel quite fortunate now for owing him and what he taught me about reading behaviour and general management, mastering a reactive dog can only make you a better trainer/handler :) I've also turned into a bit of a cheerleader for people with reactive dogs - that they can achieve a much better behaved dog, even though it's going to take time. A lot of reactive dog owners feel very alone and demoralised - we all need good support! Me too I think it's terrible to see owners of reactive dogs trying to do the right thing attending obedience classes to be turned away. I understand that reactive behaviour may not fit into a particular class, but these people are feeling desparate not knowing where to turn next and I like to embrace these people like "ok, you have a reactive dog, you get some like that so lets help you work through it". I have seen people yelled at, told not bring "that" dog back to class etc etc is no way to deal with it, in fact, I am drawn to these people more than someone who can't get the focused heel right. I am a big supporter of reactive dog classes, every training school should have one with an instructor dedicated to the position I think. Edited April 21, 2012 by m-sass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) Couldn't agree more with m-sass regarding the huge learning curve owning a reactive dog. I was kidding myself if I thought I knew a bit about our 4 legged friends before I got Stella. She has taught me so much in the time I have had her. Just amazes how much I didn't know :laugh: I am finding owning her very exhausting at times as I always have to (try) to be one step ahead of her which is very difficult with such a smart, switched on little girl. She is just very alert All the time. On the flip side of owning her, she is very responsive to me & tries so hard to get it right. She's the most affectionate dog I have ever owned. Just a real sweet heart I know she is taking me on one hell of a journey & I am going to give her 110 % & see where we end up. It is nice to know I am not alone & everyone commenting on this particular thread could relate to where I am coming from. Edited April 22, 2012 by BC Crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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