Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[mumof4girls]

Yes very true :-)

[hankdog]

What works changes over time as well. Threshold isn't really a concept that applies to Jake, see dog equals react. Right now what I'm doing is trying to get him to use his brain and call himself off. I point out the dog, watch him start up and waft the peanut butter jar around in a way that will encourage him to peel his eyes off the offender. Nowadaysp though he has to have a quiet time before he's allowed to get a lick. I'd like 10 seconds but not all situations allow for that.

I'm getting more of a reaction than I used to when I just shoved the jar in his face and I have to use my judgement as to the effect this will have on the other dog and owner. I do believe that this creates a learning opportunity and teaches him to engage his self control. As your dog changes you need to be flexible and adapt. This is why I don't think method pushers do our dogs any favors. Any book I read that says do X and your dog will learn Y, I pretty much know isn't going to work for Jake, he always finds something else to learn.

Edited October 23, 2013 by hankdog

[hankdog]

We had the funniest experience today. A little dog rushed up to bark at us, I got Jake sitting with pb and told the little guy to sit. I've found surprisingly that many dogs will actually listen and sit quietly. He sat and started sniffing the air. Lots of air hoovering and he must have decided he wanted in on the peanut butter because he started doing little sits with his legs waving and turning in circles. I was in absolute stitches, he finally walked off in a huff. I will treat dogs if I have the owners permission so I felt bad for being a meanie but I've been chuckling all day.

[raineth]

haha, he pulled out his whole repertoire for a bit of peanut butter action by the sound of it :laugh:

That's a good idea about asking the other dog to sit, I'm definitely going to try that

[maddogdodge]

Hey guys, I haven't been posting in this thread very often at all. For those who don't remember me, I have a fear aggressive Australian Shepherd. Long story short, we had a behaviourist come and help us earlier this year. This really helped me to get on top of Koda's reactivity towards strangers arriving at our house, still a work in progress though. The issue that needs tackling now is his reactivity towards dogs of the same size or bigger than him. I live in a small town which over the past year has become full of dogs of all kinds, so it is a great place for me to work with Koda on his issue. However, I still live at home with my parents, and my Mum has been very against the idea of me taking Koda out into the public with the possibility of an off leash dog approaching him. We have considered getting a larger dog to come to our house in a controlled environment, but we don't know any larger dogs that are controllable. So because of these two things, Koda has not seen a dog of the same size or bigger than him for almost two years now... not good, i know

Today i got in a bit of an argument with mum again regarding taking Koda into public for training, and i suggested that we put a muzzle on him, just to eliminate her fears. I am perfectly happy to put a muzzle on him if it will let me take him out for training. My question about this is that I'm wondering whether having a muzzle on him would make him feel more insecure and vulnerable to other dogs? Of course, i'd use positive reinforcement to make the muzzle a great thing to him, and i'd probably get a wire one that still lets him pant and open his mouth. He's used to wearing a halti, so its not a totally new concept to him, but i'm still concerned that he'd feel insecure. He's never bitten a dog before, but there is a first for everything i guess...

What are your experiences with using a muzzle on a reactive dog?

Edited October 27, 2013 by maddogdodge

[sheena]

Maddogdodge, have a read of this page of Karen Pryor's especially the story she tells about the aggressive border collie that she rescued. Karen Pryor Clicker Training Agressive Dogs She managed his training while wearing a muzzle. I have only read the one about Jack the Border Collie, but when I get time I will have a read of the other storeys too. :)

Edited October 27, 2013 by sheena

[hankdog]

I have a bulldog and can't fit a muzzle, but I've always thought if I could have it would have given me more confidence. My experience seems that anything that increases my confidence increases Jakes. I'd give it a go, more walks out and about will surely make him happier.

[maddogdodge]

Thanks for the advice guys :) Koda is a very happy dog in general, we live on 30 acres so he gets loads of exercise. But we are getting no where with the training while we aren't exposing him to dogs. I think i'll go and pick up a muzzle on Wednesday and see how things go :)

[sheena]

I used to use a muzzle on my young BC boy so that I could safely have him in the house without him chewing everything up & also would put it on him in the car so he couldn't chew his harness I also used it while I groomed him as he tended to snap at me when I touched his flanks with the brush, so that made me nervous. Just like a head collar, I introduced it with lots of praise & treats & starting with just on & off, treat ect. Then when I would want to put it on him, I would put a yummy bit of food in the bottom, while I would slip it over his head. Just make sure you get one that you can easily pass his treats through. Mine was just one of those cheap plastic ones. One day in the car, he managed to get it off his head & chewed it up & I never bothered replacing it, as he has matured a bit since.

[maddogdodge]

Wow, thats a full on BC Sheena! Good to hear that he matured since then!

I think that once Koda gets used to wearing a muzzle and sees it as a positive thing, it will help a lot. Not only because it will eliminate the risk of him injuring another dog but because it will reduce our nervousness, so he won't pick up on it as much and he will feel calmer :)

[sheena]

Wow, thats a full on BC Sheena! Good to hear that he matured since then!

I think that once Koda gets used to wearing a muzzle and sees it as a positive thing, it will help a lot. Not only because it will eliminate the risk of him injuring another dog but because it will reduce our nervousness, so he won't pick up on it as much and he will feel calmer :)

Yeah, well he has sort of matured. He sort of loves being brushed now, especially if I give him a bone to chew while I am pulling at his tail & he is allowed in the house, but he has chewed through that many car harness that it is not funny So now he just gets tied up in the car with a wide collar & a chain, not ideal, I know, but better than him suddenly appearing on my lap while I am driving along the highway. He is so quick with the chews.

[raineth]

Yeah I think the muzzle can be a really good thing maddogdodge :)

I had a long morning out with Del today. Vaccinations at the vet and then a long leisurely walk around the botanic gardens. It was so lovely I even took a selfie of us both in front of the roses :laugh:

We didn't see any other dogs, but I have to work on getting Del used to being out and about in different places as she can get stressed in new places. She was very good though apart from being a little too interested in a family of ducks.

[maddogdodge]

Wow, thats a full on BC Sheena! Good to hear that he matured since then!

I think that once Koda gets used to wearing a muzzle and sees it as a positive thing, it will help a lot. Not only because it will eliminate the risk of him injuring another dog but because it will reduce our nervousness, so he won't pick up on it as much and he will feel calmer :)

Yeah, well he has sort of matured. He sort of loves being brushed now, especially if I give him a bone to chew while I am pulling at his tail & he is allowed in the house, but he has chewed through that many car harness that it is not funny So now he just gets tied up in the car with a wide collar & a chain, not ideal, I know, but better than him suddenly appearing on my lap while I am driving along the highway. He is so quick with the chews.

Gosh, my boy hates me brushing his tail or pants area, but he doesn't bite, he just swings his bum away from me, I found a thundershirt helps with that. So glad i've never had any serious chewing problems with my dogs!

[hankdog]

Jake update....So going with the opinion he will never be dog friendly and just making him into a very obedient dog around other dogs we worked on a distracted recall yesterday. I always carry treats when I'm in the garden and call him over treat him and release so he has a fair recall. At training he's pretty anxious so he doesn't really leave my side to sniff around but yesterday we ignored him and chatted and waited until he got sucked in by one of the kennel dogs barking and then recalled him.

The first few times I had to reel him in pretty hard with the long leash but in the end I could get him to leave off barking and come racing back and sit properly with super focus. I do like the extra level of zoom I get when other dogs are around. Bulldog chanellling his inner border collie is great.

[raineth]

Oooooh nice work Jake! I think that's not a bad way to look at it Hankdog, re: making him obedient around other dogs rather than aiming for dog friendliness.

It makes me think at setting some smaller goals for Delta.

I took Del to the vet today- well not to the vet, but to the footpath and surrounding area as I thought it would be a really good place to practice, because there are always dogs coming and going, and also I pretty much know where the dogs would be doing (either going from their car into the vet, or from the vet into the car) which makes it quite easy to manage proximity. It worked pretty well, in fact the only time she seemed worried was at a dog barking from the back of the building. So it seems as like she mainly has a problem in our neighbourhood, which is interesting.

[hankdog]

Mmm where's circus when you need her. I wonder if when she's out of her comfort zone she oays more attention to you? Or she knows where to expect dogs in your normal area.

It's a bit sad to give up on the idea of Jake having a friend. He's such a gentle dog in all other ways, yesterday he ended up wandering into the middle of a batch of ducklings and the mother jumped on him three times. I called him and he just couldn't get away from her fast enough. Even with her jumping on his face he made no attempt to bite.

He has made huge improvements at obedience and seems to enjoy going. He's a funny character and the trainers seem to really like him so it's a really positive experience for both of us and its good to feel that we are going forward. I feel like I'm so much more confident as well. Strange thing is that enjoy bossing my dog around, not quite sure what to make of it.

[BC Crazy]

Well done hankdog ! Jake has improved so much thanks to your sheer determination & dedication with him. Progress feels wonderful & really does helps build your confidence & that in turn improves your handling skills I have found.

Great work :)

Edited November 3, 2013 by BC Crazy

[BC Crazy]

I have just returned from a 3.5 week caravaning trip up north with my 2 guys. We all had a blast boating, fishing etc.

What I am really chuffed about is he excellent behaviour of Sonny & Stella. Sonny has always been a very good boy but thats not to say

he isn't worth a mention LOL. I am just so pleased with Stella's ongoing improvement regarding her reactivity has amazed me quite frankly.

Previous things that would of set her off in an instant she seems to be coping so much better with now. We even had a Vet's visit while we

were up there which while she wasn't over joyed with the idea, she stood still on the Vet's table & was examined without incident. She was

quivering with fear at one stage, poor girl, but didn't act upon it nor did she react. I even had more than a few folks comment on just how

well behaved my dogs were at the caravan park. One lady didn't even realise we had any dogs staying with us until she saw us leaving as she

said she didn't hear them bark once.

I still have a long road ahead of me with Stella I understand that but fingers crossed I might just be making some positive progress with her

so I'm thrilled :)

[Staffyluv]

Sounds like everyone is making some good progress - well done.. Seeing the improvements makes all the hard work worthwhile.

Zig is on the mend after a dose of KC..

He had a sore foot, so I took him to the vet and it turned out it was just a blister (no idea how he got a blister on his pad).. While we were there the vet asked how his left back leg was and I mentioned he is still carrying it after about 20 minutes of strong exercise.

So after going over him again, it was discovered he has a sore spot on his spine - we are going for x-rays next Friday.. The vet thinks he may have a disc issue but we won't know until further testing. So no agility training (where he is jumping etc) until we know what is going on for sure.

On a great training note, he was back at obedience today and did most of his work on a lead dragging along with him (me not holding it) - in a group of 9 dogs and not once, did he try to take off to say hello..

He has become very focused on me all of a sudden - to the point where today on a couple of stays (where he couldn't see me), he got worried and got up and come looking for me.. So we need to work on that. I think we have fixed the running off as soon as the leash comes off (but we still need to keep working on it to cement it). His heel work also needs some more work again. He is pulling a bit again and seems to have forgotten that he should sit, each time we 'stop/halt'.

The instructor was less than impressed that I was using two commands (stop and sit) when at this level, he should just automatically sit - he always has, until now.. But he has been sick and as been allowed to get away with a bit, so I need to bring him back down to earth :)

Another happy note for us, is Rally-O is finally starting at our club (just at club level to begin with).. We will go at 6-6.30pm on Tuesday nights and I can't wait.

Zig and I had a bit of a play at it today again (we have a turn every time they set it up)... It is so much fun and we are so bad at it - there is loads of room for improvement.

I love that it is all on lead, all basic training stuff (heel, sit, drop, returns, static type work and lots of turns).. It just adds to our training..

We have our training session with Steve Courtney from K9 Pro on Friday week (15th November) and I am so pumped about that.. Although, I have to admit I am not looking forward to the drive from Canberra to Kurrajong in Sydney.. Zig gets car sick and most things you can give them for car sickness, also makes them drowsy and he needs to be as bright as possible for the training session..

[raineth]

Mmm where's circus when you need her. I wonder if when she's out of her comfort zone she oays more attention to you? Or she knows where to expect dogs in your normal area.

It's a bit sad to give up on the idea of Jake having a friend. He's such a gentle dog in all other ways, yesterday he ended up wandering into the middle of a batch of ducklings and the mother jumped on him three times. I called him and he just couldn't get away from her fast enough. Even with her jumping on his face he made no attempt to bite.

He has made huge improvements at obedience and seems to enjoy going. He's a funny character and the trainers seem to really like him so it's a really positive experience for both of us and its good to feel that we are going forward. I feel like I'm so much more confident as well. Strange thing is that enjoy bossing my dog around, not quite sure what to make of it.

Awww Maybe Jake could have a duck-friend instead, maybe not that particular mother duck though :laugh: I have the sweetest picture of him surrounded by ducklings in my head :D What a gentleman he is :)

I have just returned from a 3.5 week caravaning trip up north with my 2 guys. We all had a blast boating, fishing etc.

What I am really chuffed about is he excellent behaviour of Sonny & Stella. Sonny has always been a very good boy but thats not to say

he isn't worth a mention LOL. I am just so pleased with Stella's ongoing improvement regarding her reactivity has amazed me quite frankly.

Previous things that would of set her off in an instant she seems to be coping so much better with now. We even had a Vet's visit while we

were up there which while she wasn't over joyed with the idea, she stood still on the Vet's table & was examined without incident. She was

quivering with fear at one stage, poor girl, but didn't act upon it nor did she react. I even had more than a few folks comment on just how

well behaved my dogs were at the caravan park. One lady didn't even realise we had any dogs staying with us until she saw us leaving as she

said she didn't hear them bark once.

I still have a long road ahead of me with Stella I understand that but fingers crossed I might just be making some positive progress with her

so I'm thrilled :)

Huge improvements there! You must be really proud :) I must say I think that the vet visit is definitely something to celebrate . I love the sound of these caravanning trips by the way, I'm quite jealous!

Sounds like everyone is making some good progress - well done.. Seeing the improvements makes all the hard work worthwhile.

Zig is on the mend after a dose of KC..

He had a sore foot, so I took him to the vet and it turned out it was just a blister (no idea how he got a blister on his pad).. While we were there the vet asked how his left back leg was and I mentioned he is still carrying it after about 20 minutes of strong exercise.

So after going over him again, it was discovered he has a sore spot on his spine - we are going for x-rays next Friday.. The vet thinks he may have a disc issue but we won't know until further testing. So no agility training (where he is jumping etc) until we know what is going on for sure.

On a great training note, he was back at obedience today and did most of his work on a lead dragging along with him (me not holding it) - in a group of 9 dogs and not once, did he try to take off to say hello..

He has become very focused on me all of a sudden - to the point where today on a couple of stays (where he couldn't see me), he got worried and got up and come looking for me.. So we need to work on that. I think we have fixed the running off as soon as the leash comes off (but we still need to keep working on it to cement it). His heel work also needs some more work again. He is pulling a bit again and seems to have forgotten that he should sit, each time we 'stop/halt'.

The instructor was less than impressed that I was using two commands (stop and sit) when at this level, he should just automatically sit - he always has, until now.. But he has been sick and as been allowed to get away with a bit, so I need to bring him back down to earth :)

Another happy note for us, is Rally-O is finally starting at our club (just at club level to begin with).. We will go at 6-6.30pm on Tuesday nights and I can't wait.

Zig and I had a bit of a play at it today again (we have a turn every time they set it up)... It is so much fun and we are so bad at it - there is loads of room for improvement.

I love that it is all on lead, all basic training stuff (heel, sit, drop, returns, static type work and lots of turns).. It just adds to our training..

We have our training session with Steve Courtney from K9 Pro on Friday week (15th November) and I am so pumped about that.. Although, I have to admit I am not looking forward to the drive from Canberra to Kurrajong in Sydney.. Zig gets car sick and most things you can give them for car sickness, also makes them drowsy and he needs to be as bright as possible for the training session..

I hope the sore spine is just a bruise or something minor SL.

That does sound tricky situation to manage the long car trip with the car sickness. I wonder if he'll manage ok if you just don't feed him breakky and get there with enough time for the nausea to dissipate?

He sounds like he's going so well though! You 'll get heaps out of the k9 pro visit I'm sure. Digby and I got a lot out of it when we went.

Today I bought Del a muzzle. I had been told by a behaviourist after a phone consult that she probably didn't need one, but I think I need her to have one, if you know what I mean. I think that I am really going to get some peace of mind from it.

I have done 3 conditioning sessions with it today, and she's taking to it really well, so it shouldn't be long before we're out and about with it :)

Edited November 3, 2013 by raineth