Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[Pretty Miss Emma]

Kenz has a backpack and she is usually so much better when she wears it! I think she just has a lot more focus!!

[megan_]

I wonder if it is just putting a bit of pressure on the right spot. A behaviourist showed me a touch technique just below the shoulder blades that instantly changes my girl. I might try getting a teeny-weeny backpack for her. She is also less reactive when she has her raincoat on as she isn't 100% happy to be wearing it.

[hankdog]

Well Saturday is the big day... finally seeing our behaviourist for some desensitisation. Unfortunately since on the last 2 days we have been rushed by the "don't worry he's friendly" gang on 5 separate occaisions every walk is now a big dog hunt event. It's amazing just how quickly all the good work goes down hill. Since most people here will have probably been through desensitisation I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to get the most out of the situation and general advice for the session.

[SammieS]

Well Saturday is the big day... finally seeing our behaviourist for some desensitisation. Unfortunately since on the last 2 days we have been rushed by the "don't worry he's friendly" gang on 5 separate occaisions every walk is now a big dog hunt event. It's amazing just how quickly all the good work goes down hill. Since most people here will have probably been through desensitisation I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to get the most out of the situation and general advice for the session.

I watch this thread with interest because I have a reactive dog and I know all the things that we didn't do correctly with Asti when she was a pup to lead to this and have promised myself I wont make the same mistake with Angus.

I also know how frustrating it can be when "just friendly dogs" barrel up to yours when you're trying to keep your dog calm and under threshold then when your dog reacts the owner gives you the "there is something wrong with your dog look" when it was their dog that was displaying the rude/incorrect body language in the first place.

The best thing that I did was enrol Asti into a basics dog training class - it covered all the things we did in puppy preschool 3 years ago but I wasn't there to teach her to drop, stay, loose lead walk or go to your mat, I used the 5 weeks to let Asti know that she could be around other dogs and they weren't going to come near her and she wasn't going to have to meet them. I have seen such a difference that I'm going to continue training at this place because the trainers are very supportive (and place you in the class where your dog is most likely to succeed as in be less reactive) and they have a strict no meeting on the lead policy which takes the pressure off us knowing we don't have to worry about those "he's just friendly dogs" because Asti won't have to meet them.

I have to admit that I always took my cool calm and collected husband with me and I did sit in the car after class one night and had a cry because we were put too close to the trainers dogs in class (they were in a pen) and Asti lost her brain (only once in the 60 minutes) but all I could feel was the whole class looking at us!

I hope all goes well on Saturday Hankdog and that you come back in here to tell us how it went!

[ESCS]

I would like to try a backpack on my reactive tibbie. However, is he likely to overheat with it on as he has a long coat and blunt face? We walk early mornings.

It sounds a great idea and worth a go as long as I'm not compromising his health.

[Sylvie]

Well Saturday is the big day... finally seeing our behaviourist for some desensitisation. Unfortunately since on the last 2 days we have been rushed by the "don't worry he's friendly" gang on 5 separate occaisions every walk is now a big dog hunt event. It's amazing just how quickly all the good work goes down hill. Since most people here will have probably been through desensitisation I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to get the most out of the situation and general advice for the session.

I watch this thread with interest because I have a reactive dog and I know all the things that we didn't do correctly with Asti when she was a pup to lead to this and have promised myself I wont make the same mistake with Angus.

I also know how frustrating it can be when "just friendly dogs" barrel up to yours when you're trying to keep your dog calm and under threshold then when your dog reacts the owner gives you the "there is something wrong with your dog look" when it was their dog that was displaying the rude/incorrect body language in the first place.

The best thing that I did was enrol Asti into a basics dog training class - it covered all the things we did in puppy preschool 3 years ago but I wasn't there to teach her to drop, stay, loose lead walk or go to your mat, I used the 5 weeks to let Asti know that she could be around other dogs and they weren't going to come near her and she wasn't going to have to meet them. I have seen such a difference that I'm going to continue training at this place because the trainers are very supportive (and place you in the class where your dog is most likely to succeed as in be less reactive) and they have a strict no meeting on the lead policy which takes the pressure off us knowing we don't have to worry about those "he's just friendly dogs" because Asti won't have to meet them.

I have to admit that I always took my cool calm and collected husband with me and I did sit in the car after class one night and had a cry because we were put too close to the trainers dogs in class (they were in a pen) and Asti lost her brain (only once in the 60 minutes) but all I could feel was the whole class looking at us!

I hope all goes well on Saturday Hankdog and that you come back in here to tell us how it went!

I have been reading this thread with attention too, having 2 reactive JRs. We have seen a behaviourist who helped us a lot (Jane Harper) but I'd like to try obedience classes also to get them in chalenging situation in a more controlled environment. I planned to take them one at a time, switching the two every week. I have just contacted the Jindalee Centenary Obedience Club. Did anyone have had experience with them?

SammieS, which part of Brisbane are you in? And could you give the name of the place you went for the classes?

Thanks.

Sylvie

Edited April 13, 2012 by Sylvie

[SammieS]

I have been reading this thread with attention too, having 2 reactive JRs. We have seen a behaviourist who helped us a lot (Jane Harper) but I'd like to try obedience classes also to get them in chalenging situation in a more controlled environment. I planned to take them one at a time, switching the two every week. I have just contacted the Jindalee Centenary Obedience Club. Did anyone have had experience with them?

SammieS, which part of Brisbane are you in? And could you give the name of the place you went for the classes?

Tanks.

Sylvie

Hi Sylvie, I have also seen Jane Harper and have found a combo of what I learnt with her and also our weekly training worked well. We go to Urban Dog Training at Carina - Danielle and Paul are fabulous, very down to earth and the results are outstanding.

Asti attended the Urban Basics class and Angus attended the two Puppy ones and also attends the free Adolescent play groups up until he's 12 months old. My next plan of attack is to get both Asti and Angus into Clicks and Tricks, and Loose Lead Walking (in that, Asti will learn to walk around other dogs who are also on lead!) and then depending on how we go I want to keep repeating with Asti until she gets the hang of being around other dogs and knowing they don't care about her.

When you go to an Obedience Club, do they have classes/sessions like other dog training schools? or is the training specifically for competing in competitions?

[Sylvie]

I have been reading this thread with attention too, having 2 reactive JRs. We have seen a behaviourist who helped us a lot (Jane Harper) but I'd like to try obedience classes also to get them in chalenging situation in a more controlled environment. I planned to take them one at a time, switching the two every week. I have just contacted the Jindalee Centenary Obedience Club. Did anyone have had experience with them?

SammieS, which part of Brisbane are you in? And could you give the name of the place you went for the classes?

Tanks.

Sylvie

Hi Sylvie, I have also seen Jane Harper and have found a combo of what I learnt with her and also our weekly training worked well. We go to Urban Dog Training at Carina - Danielle and Paul are fabulous, very down to earth and the results are outstanding.

Asti attended the Urban Basics class and Angus attended the two Puppy ones and also attends the free Adolescent play groups up until he's 12 months old. My next plan of attack is to get both Asti and Angus into Clicks and Tricks, and Loose Lead Walking (in that, Asti will learn to walk around other dogs who are also on lead!) and then depending on how we go I want to keep repeating with Asti until she gets the hang of being around other dogs and knowing they don't care about her.

When you go to an Obedience Club, do they have classes/sessions like other dog training schools? or is the training specifically for competing in competitions?

Thanks SammieS,

The Jindalee Centenary Obedience Club has Basic Obedience training session of 6 weeks, I don't expect to do any competition with our dogs.

I will probably enroll one of the dog for the basic obedience class next month. They think it is better to take same dog for the full 6 weeks and then work on the other with all the information from the class. The hard bit is to choose the one with the worst behaviour for the class as they work as a team: one starts growling and barking while the other comes to the rescue and lunges to grab the other dog. I guess I'll go with the one who starts! He is also the pushy one at home.

That is also what I'd like to achieve, getting them to be around other dogs and knowing they don't care about them. Jane does not seem to think that we will be able to trust them enough to ever let them play free with other dogs, which is a bit sad, but if we could walk past other dogs without mine trying to jump on them would be great.

Thanks again for your reply.

Sylvie

[ESCS]

Thanks, Snook. I'll try your ideas. I walk the dogs before work so it's quite early and being close to winter, it would be the best time to try the back pack. He can carry his own treats and poo bags! I would be thrilled if it would reduce a little of the reactivity so that it gives all the other training we have been doing with the behaviourist a better chance of working.

[hankdog]

Well not quite sure what I expexted but 45 minutes of being read information from the internet wasn't quite in my mind. Finally the dog we were going to be exposed to turned up and the behaviorist told the handler to walk her around whilst Jake sat, so this immeadiately got him completely upset. I suggested that the dog sit and Jake walk at which point he started to relax and she sent the dog away. So about 5 minutes of practical work and 55 minutes of being told stuff I had already read and put into practice... not really a good way to spend money and I was hoping for some breakthrough. Has anyone actually seen a behaviourist that has made a concrete difference to their dogs behaviour? Little ratbag is now in surgery having a piece of fabric that he stole out the sewing room removed from his stomach. Really, really not having a good dog day,it's a good thing he's so cute when he's being nice.

[Robbi]

Snook where did you get Justice's backpack from? I think Abbie would benefit from wearing one on walks, she is the sort of dog who loves to feel she is doing a job and helping out :) I think she would be fine carrying two 600ml bottles of water, she weighs 36kgs so 1.2kgs shouldn't be too heavy for her do you think?

We are never going to be able to go to dog parks with Abbie(thats Yogis forte) but she is getting less reactive to dogs on walks slowly but surely, I do find the biggest problem is off leash dogs on our walks and find myself yelling at people to call their dogs back to them rather loudly sometimes but it seems some people dont realise a reactive dog doesn't want to just say hello to their dog

[huski]

Most of our behaviour consults are discussion of theory, it is important for the owner to understand the behaviour and how we will address. Then the practical side should be easier to implement. But you definitely should not have been left feeling like the consult was a waste of time and without seeing some positive change in your dog by the time the consult was over. A behaviourist consult should leave an owner feeling inspired and confident that they have the tools to help their dog and that their dogs behaviour can change for the better.

[Jumabaar]

Well not quite sure what I expexted but 45 minutes of being read information from the internet wasn't quite in my mind. Finally the dog we were going to be exposed to turned up and the behaviorist told the handler to walk her around whilst Jake sat, so this immeadiately got him completely upset. I suggested that the dog sit and Jake walk at which point he started to relax and she sent the dog away. So about 5 minutes of practical work and 55 minutes of being told stuff I had already read and put into practice... not really a good way to spend money and I was hoping for some breakthrough. Has anyone actually seen a behaviourist that has made a concrete difference to their dogs behaviour? Little ratbag is now in surgery having a piece of fabric that he stole out the sewing room removed from his stomach. Really, really not having a good dog day,it's a good thing he's so cute when he's being nice.

Yes I have had really positive results- with the correct theory, technique and tools I saw changes within days. I have since gone back to the same person for some trouble shooting- and once again have had big improvements. Understanding the motivation behind the problem and having it all explained is really important as it allows the handler to think about situations from the dogs perspective and act well before there is an actual problem.

I agree with Huski- I ended my consultation feeling like it was going to work and I think that was a big part of the reason why it DID work!

Sucks you didn't get more out of it.

[ChristineX]

Hi Hankdog - the problem is, that reactive dogs need good behaviouralists. If you get a good one, you start seeing the difference very very quickly.

Let the people here know roughly where you are - we'll point you in the direction of someone who's worth seeing! :)

[Robbi]

Snook where did you get Justice's backpack from? I think Abbie would benefit from wearing one on walks, she is the sort of dog who loves to feel she is doing a job and helping out :) I think she would be fine carrying two 600ml bottles of water, she weighs 36kgs so 1.2kgs shouldn't be too heavy for her do you think?

We are never going to be able to go to dog parks with Abbie(thats Yogis forte) but she is getting less reactive to dogs on walks slowly but surely, I do find the biggest problem is off leash dogs on our walks and find myself yelling at people to call their dogs back to them rather loudly sometimes but it seems some people dont realise a reactive dog doesn't want to just say hello to their dog

Hey Robbi I got Justice's backpack from here and postage was $13. I had a look for them from Australian retailers and the ones I found are charging more than double this price. Justice is loving it. We just got back from a 45 minute walk and he was so happy and focused during his walk although he was starting to slow down quite a bit by the end of it.. lol. He's come home and crashed on his bed with a huge, relaxed grin on his face while he waits for me to get his dinner. I might just be seeing what I want to see but he really does look like he thinks he's doing a job when he has it on, even with just the way he walks.

I'd be surprised if a 600ml bottle of water weighs 600grams? Justice is about 24-25kg (I tried to weigh him at Petstock a couple of weeks ago but their scales are way out and he came in at 19kg even though he's a tad heavier than normal.. lol) and I started him with a 420g can of spaghetti on each side (so 840g) and he was perfectly fine with that. I didn't want to start out too high and risk accidentally hurting him so we kept that weight until this week and I've now added a 505g tin of soup to each side so in total he's carrying 1.85kg now. You can definitely see the difference the added weight makes just by how much it slows him down but he was still perfectly happy the whole time and during the part of our walk where he gets to go off leash (in a cemetery so no other dogs around) he was still trotting ahead of me to check things out then coming back to me every time I practised his recall and then trotting off again (which I imagine he wouldn't be doing if the backpack felt too much for him). I'll keep this weight for at least two or three weeks until he's completely used to it and it isn't really slowing him down.

I'm going to teach Justice the Look at That game to reduce his reactivity to other dogs. The difficult part is finding an environment where there are other dogs but absolutely no risk of any of them approaching him. I'm going to see if it's okay to stay back after our obedience class when they start up again next week and work on it with him while the second lot of classes are running and was thinking about taking him to a dog park but sitting outside the fence, so he's protected from dogs rushing up to him but can still see them and be rewarded for looking at them. The Look at That game might be something work looking in to (pardon the pun) for Abbie?

Thanks Snook :) I will be hiking the hills with Abbie and her backpack in no time

[hankdog]

Hi Hankdog - the problem is, that reactive dogs need good behaviouralists. If you get a good one, you start seeing the difference very very quickly.

Let the people here know roughly where you are - we'll point you in the direction of someone who's worth seeing! :)

Thanks I'm on Sydney North shore but really will travel anywhere in Sydney to see someone good, Jake is a car lover. Frustrating thing, is in a controlled situation I can slowly approach a quiet dog so really I need a practice dog to sit quietly. Mmmm anyone know a park where a couple of old dogs just lay in the sun?

[OSoSwift]

It is easier to break up a dog fight when you only have one lot of teeth to deal with. Of course no one wants to get into this situation but in the event that you do, i can't imagine why anyone would want two dogs potentially latched on instead of one.

Muzzles ease owners stress. A stressed owner decreases a reactive dogs threshold significantly- we want to increase the dogs threshold so we need to deal with every factor affecting it. It is flawed to either ignore an owners emotional state or expect them to change it quickly- it just doesn't work. Owners emotional states (like dogs) take time to change and in some cases, muzzles help in the meantime.

In addition to the other suggestions- i think its important that if a reactive dog has some 'dog friends' that thet do get regular interactions with them if possible. Regular predatory drive rewards can also help to stimulate and tire a reactive dog.

Simple Cosmolo, the dog that gets latched onto is your muzzled dog which can also come with severe injury to your dog, why on earth would anyone want their own dog injured by an off leash dog when it could potentially diffuse the situation being unmuzzled and come through it unscathed

Okay another view.

I had two Dobermann bitches.

They got along well but were never together when I was not around.

One day The got into a fight. One was 8 years old and desexed, but the top dog. The other was two entire and hitting her prime.

The older girl wore a basket muzzle when out of the house/her dog run due to an on going condition that caused her to eat unusual things in great quantities following three Tortion surgeries in 2 years.

One evening while I was trying to feed a poddy calf the two got into a fight, not sure exactly what it was over but I think it is because they both tried to cock their leg on the same thing at the same time.

The young one started it, the old girl defended herself - she was muzzled. The young dog was biting her face but also grabbing her over her shoulders and neck and trying to throw her on her back. Luckily the old girl was wearing a coat that was moving independantly of her enough that she could brace her legs and stop herself going over. It also meant the coat was full of holes not her neck.

I believe the fact the older girl was wearing a muzzle actually saved her life. Because she didn't fight back the young one was not as fueled in her attempted killing of her. I believe had she been able to fight back without her muzzle that would have caused the situation to excalate further and her life would have been in far more danger than it was.

Luckily I got to them and managed to get them to back off. The old girl had a shredded coat and multiple puncture marks to her lips, ears, eyelids and over her head. Her coat was a double thickness extanded neck coat which is also another reason she did not have her throat torn open.

I can understand the worry of the dog not being able to defned it's self, but I also believe in many situations that being able to inflict pain, can cause a higher surge in adrenaline and fuel the fight more the dog that is muzzled and the dog has the potential to save it's self more severe or life threateneing injury as a result of being muzzled.

Sorry to take this thread further off topic but I though that another view on muzzling a reactive dog may help people see it from another side.

[ChristineX]

Hi again Hankdog - keeping in mind that I have no idea about geography (and get routinely lost),K9pro (Steve Courtney) is at least in your state (kurrajong??)- he'd be a good place to start. I also believe that he keeps a list of good behaviouralists australia wide which makes him an even better place to start.

A lot of these guys run reactive dog classes - which is where all the dogs are reactive which means all the owners are working on keeping their dogs calm - and it gives you a great place to practice in the company of people who understand what you are going through. Duke (my reactive dog) loves them - he'll even stop having hysteria about small fluffy dogs in the class - after 10 or 15 minutes. Which is a vast improvement on 45 minutes of total mindless canine hysteria that we used to have just because he spotted the tip of a dogs tail a mile or two in the distance .

Good luck, let us know how you go!

[hankdog]

Thanks ChristineX I will give him a call, I think word of mouth is probably going to be my best bet. As it turns out the piece of fabric turned out to be the needle and thread I was working with shortly before he started choking. I was chatting while working and must have let it dangle, whilst under anaesthetic they also removed some excess soft palate that will help him breathe better. So no excitement for a week. I'll be working on the sit/ stay program I found on the internet called "Protocol for Relaxation" by Karen Overall. It gives a day by day task for 15 days, I'm good with clear instructions. I'll give Steve a call and hopefully set up a meet for once the throat is all healed.

[Nekhbet]

just FYI our school is set up for reactive and aggressive dogs, they're more then welcome no matter the breed or problem if people need a place to train. I know its in Geelong but there is at least an option and agility equipment.