Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[raineth]

So glad to hear you had a good time at the seminar Wobbly :)

[corvus]

We went to Denise's seminar, I wished you were there Corvus, you would have really loved it for sure. Lots of the "D" word being thrown round, but I think you wouldn't have minded, because the whole seminar was so deeply based in giving the dogs clear choice.

Yeah, it was a shame I couldn't go. No doubt I would have got plenty out of it. Probably would have resolved the vague twitchiness I have about Fenzi. Some time ago I was slightly (only slightly, I swear!) critical on someone's FB of a blog post of hers because I felt it put too much mysticism into play. There's a lot of mysticism in dog-human play in the training world that doesn't need to be there and IMO doesn't help anyone play with their dog, but maybe that's just how I think. I didn't know Denise was watching. She came down on me kinda hard for claiming to teach Kivi to tug using food. It was probably warranted seeing as someone asked for a video of what he was like before that and the only one I had Denise thought was a terrible example of me tugging, whereas what I had for the 'after' was great human tugging and all I'd done was use food to train an out. I couldn't say she was wrong, 'cause I don't know, but I don't think she was entirely right, either. I think we managed to iron everything out, but I can't say I am as open to her as I was before that exchange. I wasn't especially prepared for having my early tugging brutally critiqued by her!

At any rate, we had fun in Victoria this weekend trying herding and tracking. We learnt about nose work, but didn't get a chance to try it as we had to head back to Sydney. The boys were for the most part great.

[Wobbly]

Hey guys "D big surgery is tommorow BC, the other hospital visit was just hor d'oeuvres. Tommorrow is the main kidney excising exercise. I'm procrastinating right now, I should be preparing all the stuffs I need.

Good to hear you had a great time in Victoria Corvus. Wow it's hard to imagine Denise being tough on you, she was ignoring and redirecting human mistakes rather than critiquing. I can definitely empathise with you though, once I have a conflict with someone it's difficult for me to overcome a distaste for them, it can be done but needs a huge positive experience to neutralise the memory, and I am unlikely to give them the chance to redress. She probably would have managed that this time around with you and got you to put your previous experience with her down to a bad day or whatever. She mentioned the seeking system, only in passing, but in relation to why the hunting food game helped the nervy dogs. Oh I have to tell you, I developed a taste for Corgis, there were some really cool ones at the seminar, I imagine this covers Erik dogs too (he's not a corgi though is he? he looks like the same type though?), they're like Cattle Dogs with huge cattle dog ears, huge cattle dog attitudes but short, little legs, so very cute. XD I had never really met a corgi before, I'm totally sold on them now.

BC crazy, the seminar would probably have been way to full on for Stella to be there herself, but Denise runs online courses where post youtube videos of the dog and get feedback. There's a lot of confidence building and a specific fearful and reactive one starting in August. The fearful one is with Amy Cook who I don't know. The video posting courses would be great for Stell, that way her reactions can be seen but you have a way better handle on her stress levels by being able to control the environment you video in, insstead of having to take her to an unfamiliar location for assessment. There's the link so you can have a look. http://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/courses

[BC Crazy]

Sorry Wobbley, I have you out of hospital & on the mend already :laugh: Just shows you how confident I am you will breeze through it :laugh:

Best of luck for tomorrow, we will all be thinking of you

Yes you are probably right about that wonderful seminar you attended being a bit much for Stella. Appreciate the link you have provided, that may be a good

way for me to go with her. She really surprises me sometimes though e.g. today just got back from a 1.5 hour walk with her on her own. Walking in all different

environments, bush/suburban/busy roads. Stella didn't have one reactive moment nor did she emotional. Did some basic obedience stuff with her & she didn't put

a foot wrong but more importantly she was quite relaxed

I'm wrapped. Maybe all my work is starting to pay off. Oh gosh I hope so. I will be thrilled

[corvus]

Wow it's hard to imagine Denise being tough on you,

I think I hit a nerve or something. I didn't know very much about her at the time and she knew nothing about me. I know I get short-tempered sometimes when people are critical of science for whatever reason, and get on the defensive before I bother to find out if they are an armchair expert blowing steam or actually do have something useful to say. I probably sounded like an armchair expert blowing steam to her. She's not keen on teaching dogs to tug with food. I would do it again exactly the same way in a heartbeat. I loved the results and still love them. I learnt it from Ken Ramirez. He knows a thing or two about learning theory and secondary reinforcements, let me tell you! I also used it to recover Erik's tugging after I'd managed to poison it pretty badly. It took less than a week, which is pretty phenomenal considering I'd already spent months on it without the food and progress had been slow.

Oh I have to tell you, I developed a taste for Corgis, there were some really cool ones at the seminar, I imagine this covers Erik dogs too (he's not a corgi though is he? he looks like the same type though?), they're like Cattle Dogs with huge cattle dog ears, huge cattle dog attitudes but short, little legs, so very cute. XD I had never really met a corgi before, I'm totally sold on them now.

Erik is a Swedish Vallhund. They fill the same niche as a corgi, really, but are Scandinavian and a bit older, I think. Corgis are pretty awesome, but Valls are better. ;) You should have seen some of those Valls at the herding day. The quietest, sweetest Vall I know got in with those sheep and became a little monster, chasing and bailing them up against the fence and getting right in underneath them, utterly fearless. Valls and corgis are of the same ilk, but Valls are IMO smarter and more agile and a bit more independent. And possibly have a bit more attitude!

BC crazy, the seminar would probably have been way to full on for Stella to be there herself, but Denise runs online courses where post youtube videos of the dog and get feedback. There's a lot of confidence building and a specific fearful and reactive one starting in August. The fearful one is with Amy Cook who I don't know. The video posting courses would be great for Stell, that way her reactions can be seen but you have a way better handle on her stress levels by being able to control the environment you video in, insstead of having to take her to an unfamiliar location for assessment. There's the link so you can have a look. http://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/courses

I have come across Amy Cook in my travels. She seems pretty sensible and knowledgeable.

Good luck with your surgery. We'll be thinking of you.

[hankdog]

There you go I thought you were all put back together too Wobbly. Thanks for that link I'm going to look into that for Tubby too.

Good Luck for tomorrow.

[hankdog]

Hey BC if you'd like I can post you the lick sticks I have, I started with peanut butter and then tried the sticks but it was too late, he had already developed his addiction to peanut butter.

Jakes being a gem at the vets, he's getting quite used to being there and seeing people think he's a well behaved dog just does not get old. Last night he happily hopped up next to me in the chair, then climbed over me to get on the table, it was probably not appropriate but I did laugh when he started putting his paws on the wall to try climb onto the shelf that had a jar of liver treats just out of his reach. Yes I do remember the warning about confident dogs leaping canyons Corvus, luckily Jakes a climber not a leaper.

[BC Crazy]

Excuse my ignorance hankdog but what are lick sticks ?

[hankdog]

Looks like a rollerball deodorant bottle and has a liver or chicken flavored liquid so the dog licks the ball and gets the goop. The licking is supposed to keep the jaw relaxed and split the dogs focus. Treats were always hit and miss with Jake because he'd spit or bark them out plus getting your fingers snapped wasn't that much fun. All the training has also helped but this was really a turning point for us. He does occasionally bite down on the jar but since your hands are at the other end that's fine. Generally it's just easier to manage for me than treats because he stays focused on the jar and I can lead him away just by putting the jar slightly to the side of his head. I wish I'd started with the sticks because they're less than one calorie per lick but since he'd got the taste for peanut butter he wasn't that interested in the sticks when a dog was around. He has an addiction level focus on peanut butter.

[MsKatie]

the lick sticks sound great - would love to try them with my kelpie - are they available in Australia?

ETA - have just ordered some through vet n pet direct :)

Edited July 18, 2013 by KelpieHoundMum

[megan_]

Just be very careful with them - I believe there have been a few injuries/deaths in the US where the dog has bitten on the tube and then choked on the ball

[BC Crazy]

Hankdog, They might be alright for Stella. She is good with treats but I also like to vary my treats as well. She is a good doer as far as her food goes though &

so the low calorie goodies are always am advantage as the meds she is on make her constantly hungry. She adores peanut butter as well so I buy the less fat one from

woolies. I smear alittle in her kong for a treat of a night.

Megan, Geez I just read your post. For this horrible thing to happen regarding these lick stick things you would have to leave them unattended with it I would imagine

wouldn't you. I am only intending to use it as a bait for training. As I am understanding it is like a roll on deodorant & I have dropped one of those & the ball has come

flying out so I can understand how this terrible thing could happen if left with a very inquisitive dog unsupervised

Edited July 18, 2013 by BC Crazy

[hankdog]

PM me your address and I'll post them off. I think it's foreseeable that that could happen if your dog bit hard enough. I had a small jar of peanut butter and Jake managed to bite the top with such precision timing he popped the bottom out.

[BC Crazy]

Many thanks Hankdog will do :)

Edited July 18, 2013 by BC Crazy

[megan_]

PM me your address and I'll post them off. I think it's foreseeable that that could happen if your dog bit hard enough. I had a small jar of peanut butter and Jake managed to bite the top with such precision timing he popped the bottom out.

yip - it happens when the owner is feeding the dog.

[BC Crazy]

Yirks megan !!! I will be very careful with it then & if I am unsure of it's safety or have any doubts it will be straight in the bin. Not worth the risk. Thanks for the heads up.

[corvus]

Big win for Erik this week. He has earned off leash privileges around our cleaners. This is something I never thought we would achieve. Major milestone, and he has far exceeded all my expectations. :) I was so chuffed with him.

And a couple of weeks ago Kivi walked past the dogs he hates most on our walking routes in a heel without barking back at them or lunging at their fence even though they were going off at him. This is the dogs that used to have him beside himself and almost hysterical when we were still a good 70m from their yard and they weren't even in the yard half the time. Very proud of him. He only really had one thing that got him so wound up and that was it. Walking past them calm and in control was a pretty special moment.

[teekay]

I enjoyed reading about k9 nosework, I hadn't heard of it before. Sounds really cool. Thanks for posting the link Wobbly

I just had a giggle though because I googled K9 nosework Sunshine Coast, just to see if anyone was doing this locally, and all I seemed to get was lots of links to plastic surgeons :laugh:

We have put the vet experience behind us now. I ordered a muzzle and I am slowly introducing it to Luka with lots and lots of treats. So far so good.

Luka graduated from the basic manners and life skills foundation class at training and now we are doing a mix of stuff. Some cyber rally, some C.L.A.S.S., and some Trick Training. I really enjoy the trick training.

I was a bit nervous going to the first class because I knew it was different instructors and different dogs but Luka did great I took his special mat and he calmly lay on it when we weren't working. We went through a large amount of treats though :) So glad he doesn't get car sick :laugh:

Hope the surgery went well Woobly and you have as pain free a recovery, as possible.

[raineth]

Congratulations on your successes Corvus and Teekay

We are just having little improvements here which are going along with me being much more nuanced with the clicker.

One thing that has changed is that sometimes she is wanting a treat reward rather than an increased distance reward and I'm just going with it. So we are kind of doing more of a combination of Grisha's method and more traditional click to calm sort of stuff.

We are doing protocol for relaxation but I've lapsed in the last few days with the demands of uni returning.

Edit for autocorrect!

Edited July 19, 2013 by raineth

[teekay]

Congratulations on your successes Corvus and Teekay

We are just having little improvements here which are going along with me being much more nuanced with the clicker.

One thing that has changed is that sometimes she is wanting a treat reward rather than an increased distance reward and I'm just going with it. So we are kind of doing more of a combination of Grisha's method and more traditional click to calm sort of stuff.

We are doing protocol for relaxation but I've lapsed in the last few days with the demands of uni returning.

Edit for autocorrect!

That's the problem isn't it, Raineth. Sometimes I wish I could just 'go for a walk' with Luka and not have to treat every outing as a training session. It's having to be constantly on the ball that is exhausting, especially when you have other stuff going on in your life.

We definitely did a combination of BAT And counter conditioning, depending on the circumstances.