Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[corvus]

Corvus, chicken camp tomorrow, how will I recognise you? I will probably be in jeans and a black hoody, black converse (usual uniform) with lots of long brownishy hair. I am so looking forward to this!

Ummm.... I have no idea what I'll be wearing. I am braindead. My thesis is SO closed to finished and all I can think of is figure and table lists and remembering all those little things I still have to add. I look like this (minus raincoat and gumboots):

[hankdog]

Darn separation anxiety dog. Wish I could go to chicken camp, but I'd have to bring my own chicken and he'd look surprisingly like a bulldog dressed in a chicken suit????. Have fun guys, hoping for some top tips.

[BC Crazy]

:laugh: Hankdog, I've got one of those here as well. Looks very much like a Border Collie in a chicken suit though. Surprise Surprise :laugh:

Wobbley, sorry to hear you are unwell. Good luck & I hope everything goes well for you & have a speedy recovery. Totally understand re OH walking your dog.

My OH did walk our 2 on occasion & I'm still trying to get them back in order. Don't get me wrong I really appreciated him walking them after a long day

at work it was at times the last thing he wanted to do but he took them anyways. He also walks them in the bush. When he walks them he pretty

much lets them do what they want. Pull, walk in front of him etc. So I still have some correcting to do :laugh:

I brought my tread mill off Ebay if you were wondering. Just had to make sure that the running space or belt was longer than 1300 & 45 cm wide for my size dog.

They need the extra to accommodate their length of stride. There are lots of different ones available but I did find that most of them under $500 had a very short

belt unfortunately. Very happy with mine though & delivery was next day as well. The kids love it!!!! :laugh:

Corvus, that's a great pic of you & your guys. Very natural & they look so content

Edited July 4, 2013 by BC Crazy

[teekay]

Wow, there's some long posts in here the last few pages. I haven't got time to read them all now, will catch up later, but wanted to share our disastrous trip to the vets this morning.

There's a thread in general about the reason for the vet visit but I was so so so upset at Luka's behaviour this morning. We had worked so hard visiting the vets lots of times to get him used to it and had great success with his vaccination appointment a few weeks ago but all was forgotten this morning.

Our usual vet was away so it was a locum vet. She couldn't even examine Luka, he barked growled, snarled. The lot

I feel so deflated. It's such a uphill battle and just when you think you have made progress something like this happens to smack you right back down again. It didn't help that the vet was foreign with dark hair and dark skin. Luka is very sensitive to things that appear unusual to him. He even barked at me once when I had been running and I pushed my sweaty hair back so I had no fringe. He did the low growl and bark until I spoke to him and he realised it was me.

I realise I need to desensitise him to a muzzle though, because if a vet needs to examine him if he is really ill, he will need to wear one and if I get him used to it, hopefully, it won't be as stressful. Is there a particular type that anyone would recommend? I have never even looked at muzzles before. I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I am that I have to look for one now.

When I was searching for a puppy I turned down a litter because I was unsure of the parent's temperament. I thought I had done everything right with Luka but I have ended up with the kind of dog I never ever wanted Don't get me wrong I love him to bits and he is such a big softie at home but, I am just feeling so upset and out of my depth.

Edited July 8, 2013 by teekay

[megan_]

Don't take it to heart teekay - even the best behaved dog can react because they are in pain (which, given your description in general, I assume Luka is).

Re: a muzzle, I think it is good for every dog to get desensitized to it. I have a plastic jafco one from K9Pro (which I have never had to use). On Steve's advice, I cut a small hole in the front so that I could still reward Lucy for being good. These are much better than the nicer-looking material ones as they actually allow the dog to pant and drink. All the muzzle's from K9Pro come with a sheet explaining the desensitization process.

[raineth]

Wow, there's some long posts in here the last few pages. I haven't got time to read them all now, will catch up later, but wanted to share our disastrous trip to the vets this morning.

There's a thread in general about the reason for the vet visit but I was so so so upset at Luka's behaviour this morning. We had worked so hard visiting the vets lots of times to get him used to it and had great success with his vaccination appointment a few weeks ago but all was forgotten this morning.

Our usual vet was away so it was a locum vet. She couldn't even examine Luka, he barked growled, snarled. The lot

I feel so deflated. It's such a uphill battle and just when you think you have made progress something like this happens to smack you right back down again. It didn't help that the vet was foreign with dark hair and dark skin. Luka is very sensitive to things that appear unusual to him. He even barked at me once when I had been running and I pushed my sweaty hair back so I had no fringe. He did the low growl and bark until I spoke to him and he realised it was me.

I realise I need to desensitise him to a muzzle though, because if a vet needs to examine him if he is really ill, he will need to wear one and if I get him used to it, hopefully, it won't be as stressful. Is there a particular type that anyone would recommend? I have never even looked at muzzles before. I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I am that I have to look for one now.

When I was searching for a puppy I turned down a litter because I was unsure of the parent's temperament. I thought I had done everything right with Luka but I have ended up with the kind of dog I never ever wanted Don't get me wrong I love him to bits and he is such a big softie at home but, I am just feeling so upset and out of my depth.

that sounds really stressful for you and for him Teekay, I really sympathise.

Grisha Stewart talks about thresholds and how when there is more than one stressful thing going on in the environment they add up. It was probably both the pain and the different vet that just pushed him over the edge. All the work you've done at the vet still sounds like it helped a lot.

I'm interested to get Delta a muzzle too. Although she's only ever reacted in self-defence it worries me if a much smaller dog attacked her that she could do disproportionate amount of damage. I had a look at the local pet stores though and there was nothing that fitted. I might have to check out the K9pro ones too.

[raineth]

Today was meant to be the day we did a set-up with Del but the people I'd organised to do it with didn't respond to my texts this morning and didn't turn up.

Oh well, I'll just keep looking I guess.

It's so hard to find people for a set-up because they need to both be willing and have a dog that's calm around other dogs. Apparently people in who meet these criteria are not in proliferation in my area.

ETA: Oh forgot to say I'm keen to hear how the chicken campers went!?

Hankdog, well Del is actually a bit special looking but we love her I'll see about getting a photo up :)

Edited July 8, 2013 by raineth

[corvus]

Corvus, that's a great pic of you & your guys. Very natural & they look so content

Thank you. :) A couple of weeks ago OH decided to take us on a walk he had put together from Google maps. He never thinks to check the terrain. His track degraded into a goat track up the side of a steep valley, more climbing with hands and feet than walking. The boys loved it, though. I hauled myself over the last boulders and helped E up, but it was too high for Kivi because he needs more momentum than Erik. So Erik and I wandered around on the ridge until we found Kivi and my OH a marginally more civilised path up. I was crouching there having a breather with the boys when OH got to us and snapped this photo on his phone. I love it.

Chicken camp was great fun, despite our chickens being duds. Met some great people, most especially Wobbly. :) Terry Ryan knows everyone who is someone in animal training! She is a great teacher, and very easy on her students. If there's a chaining course next year I'll do it.

I am just putting the last touches on my thesis. 245 pages and I'm currently waiting for the 707 references to be formatted. Thank the lord for referencing software. Erik and Kivi are telling me it is time to take them out somewhere. We took them to the beach yesterday and Erik was terrific. Best he's ever been. We even bumped into our retriever friends from the park, who he is completely nuts about chasing, and he managed to leave them be. Once he got the initial chasing frenzy out of his system, that is. We'll keep working on it.

ETA Where in NSW are you, Raineth? Maybe we can find someone for you? Grisha Stewart has some kind of social network set up where people who want to do BAT setups can get in contact with other people wanting to do BAT setups. It seems to work well. I wonder if there are enough people here do set something like that up?

Edited July 8, 2013 by corvus

[raineth]

Corvus, that's a great pic of you & your guys. Very natural & they look so content

Thank you. :) A couple of weeks ago OH decided to take us on a walk he had put together from Google maps. He never thinks to check the terrain. His track degraded into a goat track up the side of a steep valley, more climbing with hands and feet than walking. The boys loved it, though. I hauled myself over the last boulders and helped E up, but it was too high for Kivi because he needs more momentum than Erik. So Erik and I wandered around on the ridge until we found Kivi and my OH a marginally more civilised path up. I was crouching there having a breather with the boys when OH got to us and snapped this photo on his phone. I love it.

Chicken camp was great fun, despite our chickens being duds. Met some great people, most especially Wobbly. :) Terry Ryan knows everyone who is someone in animal training! She is a great teacher, and very easy on her students. If there's a chaining course next year I'll do it.

I am just putting the last touches on my thesis. 245 pages and I'm currently waiting for the 707 references to be formatted. Thank the lord for referencing software. Erik and Kivi are telling me it is time to take them out somewhere. We took them to the beach yesterday and Erik was terrific. Best he's ever been. We even bumped into our retriever friends from the park, who he is completely nuts about chasing, and he managed to leave them be. Once he got the initial chasing frenzy out of his system, that is. We'll keep working on it.

ETA Where in NSW are you, Raineth? Maybe we can find someone for you? Grisha Stewart has some kind of social network set up where people who want to do BAT setups can get in contact with other people wanting to do BAT setups. It seems to work well. I wonder if there are enough people here do set something like that up?

Glad to hear chicken camp was fun, and sounds like also a good networking opportunity. I just googled it and it sounds like a lot of fun! I bet I could use the help to refine my clicker skills. Maybe one day!

I'm in Wagga Corvus. I can always fall back on the dog club here; and I think that's what I'm going to have to do. There are still a couple of other people that I think might agree to a set-up. It's just difficult because 3 of them are old men who are all hard of hearing, it makes it tricky you know? Which is why I haven't asked them yet- because it's a fair amount of effort just asking them how their day has been. One of these guys may also have dementia (well for the last 3 years he's been asking me the same questions and is still surprised at my answers). They all have really relaxed dogs though!

[hankdog]

I'm sorry Teekay, some days are just so disheartening. I guess the way I deal with it is to do stuff that he's good at, joined the 52 weeks for dogs photo forum, I do at home agility and lots of trick training. It helps to do things he's good at so the bad stuff gets in perspective, it's just one part of him. I have also mentally given myself permission to PTS when I've had enough. Each day is my choice. That sounds harsh but owning a pet should be a rewarding experience and not a chore. On balance Jake is improving and I do enjoy having him.

If you can't get a formal BAT setup Raineth can you find a calm dog behind a fence. Some of my most constructive sessions have been with a lovely lab up the road who sits quietly for treats behind her fence.

Sorry your chickens were duds on chicken camp, should have sent my little girl Lola, she's super smart and good looking too.

Jake hit a milestone today, he came with to the garden center. My OH came with and we kept a good lookout for dogs. He had to go through a turnstile gate, walk next to a trolley, get pats from strangers, wait in the queue to pay and then go through auto doors to exit. I was very impressed, he was stressed but gave himself lots of shakes, he sniffed the compost bags so hard I'm surprised the bags didn't burst. He tucked himself into heel and was very attentive. I was so proud to have what looked like a well behaved dog. It was lovely to have him with, Hank was such a bombproof dog he would always just jump in the car and come with everywhere and I'd love Jake to get that way.

[raineth]

I'm sorry Teekay, some days are just so disheartening. I guess the way I deal with it is to do stuff that he's good at, joined the 52 weeks for dogs photo forum, I do at home agility and lots of trick training. It helps to do things he's good at so the bad stuff gets in perspective, it's just one part of him. I have also mentally given myself permission to PTS when I've had enough. Each day is my choice. That sounds harsh but owning a pet should be a rewarding experience and not a chore. On balance Jake is improving and I do enjoy having him.

If you can't get a formal BAT setup Raineth can you find a calm dog behind a fence. Some of my most constructive sessions have been with a lovely lab up the road who sits quietly for treats behind her fence.

Sorry your chickens were duds on chicken camp, should have sent my little girl Lola, she's super smart and good looking too.

Jake hit a milestone today, he came with to the garden center. My OH came with and we kept a good lookout for dogs. He had to go through a turnstile gate, walk next to a trolley, get pats from strangers, wait in the queue to pay and then go through auto doors to exit. I was very impressed, he was stressed but gave himself lots of shakes, he sniffed the compost bags so hard I'm surprised the bags didn't burst. He tucked himself into heel and was very attentive. I was so proud to have what looked like a well behaved dog. It was lovely to have him with, Hank was such a bombproof dog he would always just jump in the car and come with everywhere and I'd love Jake to get that way.

I really like the way you frame that Hankdog :)

A trick I use is to ask myself what the life lesson is that my dog is teaching me. It's often to accept beings for who they are and that nothing is perfect :)

Well done to you and Jake doing so well at the garden centre! Sounds like he put all the things you've been teaching him in to practice

How long have you had Jake for?

I am doing a lot of BAT with dogs behind fences and like you, I've found them to be hugely beneficial. There is one dog who doesn't bark at us from behind the fence - a gorgeous pied Staff and just like Del half his face is black and the other half is white. He doesn't bark at us but I can tell he's not really happy about us being there either so I always keep an eye on when he's had enough and move on. If I see his owners out I'll ask them if they would mind if threw him some treats so he might enjoy it a bit more :)

[hankdog]

I've had Jake 18 months, he came with a warning but I thought a few trips to the dog park to expose him to dogs and then obedience school and we would be fine. Big, huge life lesson is assuming you know anything about anything.

I have learned a lot through him not least of all getting Internet skills and joining a forum and learning to use my camera and gating a really thick skin when people tell me I'm rewarding my dog for bad behaviour because I treat him when we see dogs, no matter what.

Today's milestone, we got chased by two off leash black dogs, bolted down someone's driveway and hoped the oncoming cattle dog would draw them away. Nope the lady came with me down the drive, she had not noticed tubby madly licking and chomping on his peanut butter jar..cool. Around the next corner was a bling clad white horse, being used to escort a groom to his wedding at the temple.. ...I kid you not. Jake finished off the jar on that.

Edited July 10, 2013 by hankdog

[raineth]

I've had Jake 18 months, he came with a warning but I thought a few trips to the dog park to expose him to dogs and then obedience school and we would be fine. Big, huge life lesson is assuming you know anything about anything.

I have learned a lot through him not least of all getting Internet skills and joining a forum and learning to use my camera and gating a really thick skin when people tell me I'm rewarding my dog for bad behaviour because I treat him when we see dogs, no matter what.

Today's milestone, we got chased by two off leash black dogs, bolted down someone's driveway and hoped the oncoming cattle dog would draw them away. Nope the lady came with me down the drive, she had not noticed tubby madly licking and chomping on his peanut butter jar..cool. Around the next corner was a bling clad white horse, being used to escort a groom to his wedding at the temple.. ...I kid you not. Jake finished off the jar on that.

Nawww look at that face though, I bet he makes up for all of it :)

Oh lord! We had the horse thing happen a couple of weeks ago! There is one lone paddock in our suburb with a horse and Del has been nuts about horses. I desensitised her to the horse in the paddock but when she saw him being ridden out the front of our house it was an entirely different story! She hooowwwled and hooooowled!

I worked the photo thing out

Edited July 10, 2013 by raineth

[hankdog]

Oh wow I thought she sounded photogenic but that's just amazing. She's so unusual. Big and beautiful!!!

[hankdog]

Had to take Tubby to the vet today. She asked me to lift him on the table. No problem for the little four wheel drive dog. Put the peanut butter on the table , patted the bench and told him up and he used the bench to climb up. Happily let her take a bit of the lump while he got peanut butter. If the world runs out if peanuts I'm in big trouble. He has to go back for surgery on Monday but they're letting me stay with him and they'll sedate him in the consult room so hopefully it will go smoothly.

[raineth]

Had to take Tubby to the vet today. She asked me to lift him on the table. No problem for the little four wheel drive dog. Put the peanut butter on the table , patted the bench and told him up and he used the bench to climb up. Happily let her take a bit of the lump while he got peanut butter. If the world runs out if peanuts I'm in big trouble. He has to go back for surgery on Monday but they're letting me stay with him and they'll sedate him in the consult room so hopefully it will go smoothly.

Good boy Tubby (cutest nickname ever!)

I hope it all goes well on Monday. Oh and have you thought of buying shares in Kraft Hankdog? : :laugh:

[Wobbly]

O wow, she's beautiful Raineth!

I haven't posted much here because I haven't been so well, but have have been thinking about you all and hoping everyone's dogs have been having some really good successes!

It was so good to meet you Corvus, really fantastic to have a chat in person. :D And huge props for your flow charts on behaviours, all those little telling behaviours that I missed before, I'm noticing now I have them pointed out in context. Some really great insights for me, thank you!

We went to Denise's seminar, I wished you were there Corvus, you would have really loved it for sure. Lots of the "D" word being thrown round, but I think you wouldn't have minded, because the whole seminar was so deeply based in giving the dogs clear choice. The correction people (not many, but a few) were very gently redirected, onto a more positive track (I don't think they realised that was happening, but all the positive people would have seen it). There were some really great confidence building exercises too. One of the best was a little exercise where you sit down (however is comfortable, I knelt) and hide a treat at a time around your body, and cue the dog to use his/her nose to find it. Just in a small area around your body, no more than a centimetre or so away. Starting with an easy one, eg if you are kneeling first one between your knees, then one to your side, and when the dog gets the hang of it, behind your back, then make it a bit more challenging for me, kneeling, inder the front of my ankle, or for people sitting with legs out front under the knee, or even on your body (depending on your dog's tendency to mug off you might not do pockets, i didn't). A cue "find it" and a praise when they find it. The dogs loved it and it made them much more confident, especially some of the shyer more unsure dogs were noticeably happier and more confident after a few minutes of it. Tails that were a bit tucked came up, and backs unroached and ears got a happier set to them. Denise said Jarrah was a very stable, confident dog, which was wonderful to hear of course and I always knew that, but great to have it confirmed. It also made me sad as well in realising how big the hurt Jarrah must have been put through to induce her fear of cats. But it confirms my suspicion that since she has a natural tendency to stability, she can really over come her cat phobia.

I am going to do some nose work with her in a private lesson with Denise, to learn the ropes. I was really impressed with how engaging she found the little demonstration we did in the seminar, and so I'm really keen to explore it as another confidence builder for her. Also it's an exercise the handler gets to sit back and watch while the dog's natural instinct for scenting does all the hard work. K9 nose works is the formal protocol I think we will be using, a good explanation is here: http://www.clickertraining.com/node/3276

Edited July 14, 2013 by Wobbly

[BC Crazy]

So nice to see you Wobbley. Hope you are doing OK after your opp. With your wonderful outlook you will be back to wobbley in no time, giggle :)

Sounds like you had a great time at the seminar. I would of loved to have gone as I would have been very interested in her opinion of Stella & how she would go about training her being she is so reactive. Am going to try the little building confidence exercise too. Will also have a read of the link you kindly provided. Take care of you :)

Edited July 14, 2013 by BC Crazy

[hankdog]

Yay, wobbleys back!

[BC Crazy]

Raineth, What a beautiful big girl you have there. The camera loves her too

Hankdog, maybe I should get the peanut butter jar out. Sounds like it is working wonders for you. I believe in what ever works do it !! Congrats on your progress with Tubby aka Jake... :laugh: