Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[Pretty Miss Emma]

Hmm, so, trying to calm my nerves. I've entered Kenzie in to a NADAC agility trial on Sunday - 6 runs in all. Last time during 1 run she went mental - running around barking and being stupid and took a while to come back to me. I really don't want it to happen again because it is likely we will be told to leave the trial and may have a period of time where we aren't allowed to enter. The bit I don't like about it most is that if that happens she would be eliminated due to aggression. Except that it isn't aggession, it's reactivity. But the rules don't allow for any difference. So I'm just going to do my best to keep calm and if I think she's going to go mental then I'll pull her from the run. The biggest problem is that often there is no sign and then it just happens all of a sudden.

Cross your fingers for me, because I will be beyond devastated if the worst happens.

[hankdog]

I do tricks with Jake to bring him out of panic, maybe for the mind spinning panic dogs doing tricks gives them a rehearsed behavior to latch onto and start switching over into thinking mode. If he's freaking out I can get him to high five before I can get him to take a treat.

Just a thought Staffyluv, the book Corvus recommended a while ago called Fired up frantic and freaked out, is about teaching them to lie on a mat and relax, (one day we are going to whip out the mat in front of a dog and he will chose do that instead of bark)! This may be a trick you could do but it does require some food motivation.

Edited May 6, 2013 by hankdog

[Weasels]

:crossfingers: PME!

[corvus]

I do tricks with Jake to bring him out of panic, maybe for the mind spinning panic dogs doing tricks gives them a rehearsed behavior to latch onto and start switching over into thinking mode. If he's freaking out I can get him to high five before I can get him to take a treat.

Yeah, I think you are spot on. It's the same as the principles behind Control Unleashed.

By all means do what your dog loves. Erik certainly seems to benefit from getting as high as a kite under controlled circumstances where he can just do what he loves and not worry about anything else. I just keep it in mind that it does tend to get him pretty aroused and it's something that has to be managed, sometimes carefully. When he's super aroused he's also more likely to fly off the handle if something surprises him. And trigger stacking becomes a much bigger deal.

[Panzer Attack]

Good luck PME :)

Hehe, I have a bright green "in training" bandana for Scootie.

Since the partner and I broke up he's gone really funny, become super overprotective and hates Ru. My housemate and I have had long talks about what to do, and she's started taking Ru everywhere with her (she's not home that often) while I've been taking Poots to work. Since her current dog is 17 and we plan on living together for ages anyway, she's kind of become Ru's primary "mum" and the change in him is extraordinary. Scooter is so much happier now he's alone on my bed, gets walked on his own, blah blah. He's still definitely got issues, but both dogs are much happier with the new arrangement (as much as it kills me too see Rudy love someone else more ).

[hankdog]

That is sad for you PA but if it keeps the peace then you just have to go with it. Scootie sounds. like a sensitive little soul maybe he's just adjusting to the house reshuffle and will settle with Ru if he doesn't feel Ru is a threat to his mums attention. Just like children sometimes aren't they?

[hankdog]

That is sad for you PA but if it keeps the peace then you just have to go with it. Scootie sounds. like a sensitive little soul maybe he's just adjusting to the house reshuffle and will settle with Ru if he doesn't feel Ru is a threat to his mums attention. Just like children sometimes aren't they?

[Pretty Miss Emma]

Kenzie mostly is ready Snook. It's a difficult one in many ways for me to grapple with. I'd say we've probably done close to 60 runs, and in that time she's had 2 times where she has just had a mental run around and barked at things/dogs/people (who are always on the other side of the barrier/fence). Those 2 times it's upset me immensely, but when I try to be senisble and look at it statistically 2 out of 60 times is actually good percentages. When she is focussed on me and running she is just absolutely brilliant. So I find it to be a major catch 22 situation!! The other thing is the 2 times she's had her mental moments, when she's come back to me (generally it's a 10-20 sec mental moment) she does exactly as she's asked and is calm almost instantly. The thing I find really difficult is how to train for this, the only times she does it is the 2 times I've mentioned! At agility class she's been doing really well and reactivity has been almost non-existant most of the time (due to some good management by me and some very thoughtful classmates who are aware of her behaviour, but also she has just become so much better at self managing). And it is something that she enjoys just so so much. So yeah, catch 22. I'm going to hope we go with the odds this weekend, especially because it is the last time we can do it for a while (we're moving house so she won't have classes to attend and I can only get to so many trials as it is). We're starting DWD, which I think is going to be great for her and help her with all of this reactivity business as it is very "us" centred and there is a lot of focus work involved. Given that she is a bit hypervigilant I think that will be good for her to start refocussing to me rather than her environment constantly. Anyway we'll just see how we go and cross our fingers, toes and paws for now!

[Pretty Miss Emma]

Sorry PME, I must have misunderstood your previous post. I thought you were indicating Kenzie is reacting in the trialling environment quite a lot but 2 out of 60 trials is an awesome success rate. It must be so hard working out how to balance everything when your dog loves doing something so much but it carries an element of risk. I hope it all works out well for you both. :)

This is my constant dilema! Doing agility is one of the times I actually do get brilliant focus from her (on the whole), but then there is that rare occasion. And the problem is that rare occasion can have us black listed. I've tossed up the idea of just doing something else with her, but we both love it so much. At the moment I figure it;s a risk that I'll take. But we are trying other dog sports so I think for her having some variety is a good thing. And I have to just keep reminding myself of where we've come from and how much progress she has made. Tonight when we lef work there was a dog on the lawn outside our building, which I hadn't seen (as it was almost dark); it was only about 10m away from us; she saw it, the tail went up, and then she immediately sat beside me while I was locking the door and kept looking from the dog to me but primarily trying to focus on me. 12 months ago there would have been psycho spins and a barking mad lunatic dog. Moments like this are great for me just to remind me that no matter what happens sometimes on the off chance we've both made so much progress and while she is still a work in progress she has just come so so far!

Thanks for thinking of us though!!

[Panzer Attack]

This is my constant dilema! Doing agility is one of the times I actually do get brilliant focus from her (on the whole), but then there is that rare occasion. And the problem is that rare occasion can have us black listed. I've tossed up the idea of just doing something else with her, but we both love it so much. At the moment I figure it;s a risk that I'll take. But we are trying other dog sports so I think for her having some variety is a good thing. And I have to just keep reminding myself of where we've come from and how much progress she has made. Tonight when we lef work there was a dog on the lawn outside our building, which I hadn't seen (as it was almost dark); it was only about 10m away from us; she saw it, the tail went up, and then she immediately sat beside me while I was locking the door and kept looking from the dog to me but primarily trying to focus on me. 12 months ago there would have been psycho spins and a barking mad lunatic dog. Moments like this are great for me just to remind me that no matter what happens sometimes on the off chance we've both made so much progress and while she is still a work in progress she has just come so so far!

Thanks for thinking of us though!!

Is it really that common for a reactive dog to get black listed? When we were doing agility (might be going back to it now Noodle's leg is better :)) HEAPS of the dogs were aggressive/reactive! From what I've read on here, it seems almost like the majority of sports dogs have issues... what other sports could you try where she's not immersed in other dogs? Herding?

[hankdog]

DWD is dancing with dogs? I've thought that would be fun but I'd just be doing it at home. How does one start PME?

[Pretty Miss Emma]

This is my constant dilema! Doing agility is one of the times I actually do get brilliant focus from her (on the whole), but then there is that rare occasion. And the problem is that rare occasion can have us black listed. I've tossed up the idea of just doing something else with her, but we both love it so much. At the moment I figure it;s a risk that I'll take. But we are trying other dog sports so I think for her having some variety is a good thing. And I have to just keep reminding myself of where we've come from and how much progress she has made. Tonight when we lef work there was a dog on the lawn outside our building, which I hadn't seen (as it was almost dark); it was only about 10m away from us; she saw it, the tail went up, and then she immediately sat beside me while I was locking the door and kept looking from the dog to me but primarily trying to focus on me. 12 months ago there would have been psycho spins and a barking mad lunatic dog. Moments like this are great for me just to remind me that no matter what happens sometimes on the off chance we've both made so much progress and while she is still a work in progress she has just come so so far!

Thanks for thinking of us though!!

Is it really that common for a reactive dog to get black listed? When we were doing agility (might be going back to it now Noodle's leg is better :)) HEAPS of the dogs were aggressive/reactive! From what I've read on here, it seems almost like the majority of sports dogs have issues... what other sports could you try where she's not immersed in other dogs? Herding?

Not common, and NADAC is much stricter about any sort of "innappropriate behaviour" than normal agility. The 2 times she's had a mental moment would probably have been completely ignored in "normal" agility (so I've been told by a friend who does that!). In NADAC if you're waiting in line and your dog barks/lunges at another dog that gets too close you could (would) be asked to leave the trial due to aggession, even though it is the other dog that has come in to your space. We do really well considering where we've come from - Kenz can now wait in the line (and not need a constant line of treats from me) and ignore most dogs that are near us. And like I said this has happened about 2 out of 60 runs - it's just that I'm soooo sensitive to her being called aggressive, because she's not, she's reactive. And she is such a beautiful girl who loves to work so much, it breaks my heart to think of stopping agility with her because I know how much she loves it.

But yes, we are looking at other options. DWD for definites!!! And I do want to start up herding with both my 2, I think Hamish would be great at it and I think it would be a good confidence builder for Kenz. I'd also like to do the next level of Rally but it's off lead and that's the bit I find scary!!!

[Pretty Miss Emma]

DWD is dancing with dogs? I've thought that would be fun but I'd just be doing it at home. How does one start PME?

DWD is Dancing With Dogs!! And you start by becoming nerdishly addicted to watching people dance with their dogs on youtube!!! We're signing up to classes with the DWD club of Vic, so we will go to classes. But so far it seems some heeling and a few tricks means that you can think about getting a routine together. Then choose a song and figure out what you want to do to it! I'm thinking what we will include in our first routine will be heeling on the left and right, some spins while heeling, spins to change sides, walking leg weaves and stationary leg weaves. That may well be all we include, not sure yet. But interestingly Miss Kenzie who can lack focus at times, the moment we are doing things to music and throwing spins in to our heeling becomes such a super focussed dog who looks to be a bit of an addict to it all!!!

[Staffyluv]

I do tricks with Jake to bring him out of panic, maybe for the mind spinning panic dogs doing tricks gives them a rehearsed behavior to latch onto and start switching over into thinking mode. If he's freaking out I can get him to high five before I can get him to take a treat.

Just a thought Staffyluv, the book Corvus recommended a while ago called Fired up frantic and freaked out, is about teaching them to lie on a mat and relax, (one day we are going to whip out the mat in front of a dog and he will chose do that instead of bark)! This may be a trick you could do but it does require some food motivation.

I have that book on my reading list but unfortunately I have been so busy with work that I just haven't read anything that is not tax/accounting related in months..

I think you are spot on in teaching tricks for getting that rehearsed response, when they panic.

Zig just gets really excited. It doesn't help that his focus is on pups these days as they are probably more excited than a calmer older dog.

He seems to gravitate toward all the excitable dogs.

If there is a dog bouncing around, he wants to be in that as well.

I have found walking away a good tool fort this as distraction and or blocking just doesn't seem to work, we have to leave so he can't see the other dog so excited.

We are back to training today and I haven't taken him for a run this morning to burn off energy.

I am going to test him to see if I can use that energy to get his focus.

He is always on a bit of a high when he runs and excited because he just loves to run full pelt as fast as he can.

So my plan today is go in calm and focused from the get go.

[Staffyluv]

A bit of a brag today - fat head did his training on a loose lead. The whole session was loose lead.

Can you believe it!

He was standing next to a 6 month old cocker pup and a 2 year old BC cross - only about 2 metres away from him on both sides and he sat there and focused on me the whole time.

Don't you just love the great days

[Pretty Miss Emma]

An update after our day at agility...

Well, we survived it even though I was a bit anxious and stressed!!

Kenz did a great job in her 2 runs in jumpers, didn't get a pass but she did get 3rd I think it was in one of her runs. She followed me beautifully!

Regular agility, hmm, well. It didn't start out well. Just as the runs were sstarting a guy and his 2 kids (about 4 years old) sprinted over towards the ring with their off leash dog (we had signs up everywhere saying the grounds were being used for training and to keep dogs on lead, but well you know) and to top it off all three of them were kicking footies - even better, kicking them towards the ring!!! So my stress levels sky rocketed, and I pretty much had talked myself in to scratching her. Why bother doing a run with those sorts of things going on outside the ring which are going to set her off. Anyway, someone went over and asked them to do all that elsewhere (to which apparently they were very rude and reluctant to go, but they did). So we did our run! It wasn't a great run, but Kenz lost focus once or twice and I managed to get her back each time, we ended up coming 4th I think! The second regular run I thought we'd be ok, and it wasn't until I started running her that I noticed a guy and his dog (again off lead) standing right at the edge of the ring near a tunnel and the dog walk. She came off a jump and saw them and went and barked at them - so I pulled her out fromdoing the rest of the run. I didn't think I could get her attention back full and I didn't want her having any reward for running off and doing that - and doing any more equipment would have been a reward for her. It was this behaviour last time that we got a warning for (but she did it for a long time then). It was nice, the judge commended me for making the decision to pull her out at that point rather than trying to get her going again and possibly being kicked out of the trial. But it left me pretty upset. We left the ring and I spent about 5 minutes doing tricks with her so that she could refocus and so I could do some really rapid high rewards for something really good.

Her last 2 runs of the day were tunnellers (a course of about 16 tunnels - aka Kenzie heaven, and a big reason I didn't want her excused from the trial this is her FAVOURITE event!!!!). She was an absolute brilliant superstar. It's like someone has given her the course map and she memorises it before we run!! She is just so accurate, so focussed and SOOOOOOO fast!! She came 2nd in her first run (I lost my way on the course!) and 1st in her second run and both were qualifying runs! :D

She did me very proud today!!! Yes we had a bad moment, and I was probably a bit too emotional over it. but she was so brilliant in so many other ways, and the fact that we can wait in a line surrounded by dogs with a yappy little thing behind us with an owner that doesn't seem to understand when you say things like "she doesn't like other dogs too close" - well let's be honest that alone is jst such a mega milestone!!

I was reading something on the DINOS facebook page about how we will feel when our reactive dogs leave us (knock on wood, god forbid, etc, etc) and how it is such an emotional thing because we put so much of ourselves in to them and spend so much time helping them cope with the world. It's so so true, not that my little Kenz is going anywhere but just whenever you even have a criticism of them, or they have a moment at a time when you really hoped they wouldn't it seems to be a much bigger deal than with other dogs because they are so special and individual and they just really are a very big part of us. Anyway, just wanted to mention!

ETA - I just got my results for the day and in her second tunnellers run the course time was 41sec and she did it in 26sec!!!!

Edited May 12, 2013 by Pretty Miss Emma

[hankdog]

That's so amazing PME. I have set up home agility stuff, very basic but Jake loves it and it's such a shame he will never get to do the real stuff. So even having a go I find pretty awesome. Sounds like you balanced the day pretty well, pulling her out at the right time so you got to do your tunnels later.

I know about the over emotional stuff, we had some unwelcome third party input into a training session a few weeks ago. Jake is unfortunately the loudest dog on the planet and I just couldn't stop crying. Made an idiot out of myself and I'm pretty sure didn't inspire anyone with confidence as person in charge of a reactive dog. I do just feel very protective of him and always live in fear of a temperament test as I guess you fear being blacklisted.

Good news is I love the you tube DWD clips. Started doing some leg weaves. I'm going to borrow some bits and cobble together a routine. What the heck my neighbours already think I'm daft might as well throw in some music.

[Pretty Miss Emma]

That's so amazing PME. I have set up home agility stuff, very basic but Jake loves it and it's such a shame he will never get to do the real stuff. So even having a go I find pretty awesome. Sounds like you balanced the day pretty well, pulling her out at the right time so you got to do your tunnels later.

I know about the over emotional stuff, we had some unwelcome third party input into a training session a few weeks ago. Jake is unfortunately the loudest dog on the planet and I just couldn't stop crying. Made an idiot out of myself and I'm pretty sure didn't inspire anyone with confidence as person in charge of a reactive dog. I do just feel very protective of him and always live in fear of a temperament test as I guess you fear being blacklisted.

Good news is I love the you tube DWD clips. Started doing some leg weaves. I'm going to borrow some bits and cobble together a routine. What the heck my neighbours already think I'm daft might as well throw in some music.

All I'll say is never say never!!! You just never know! And we put so much work in to them, one day you might just be able to have a real go, and if not it doesn't matter so long as you are having fun and enjoying your dog!

I totally understand the whole burst in to tears thing. I had that happen at an agility class. I was just gutted because there was someone else in the class who was just everywhere I was, didn't monitor their dog, their dog bullied everyone, she would throw the tennis ball in front of us and I spent the whole lesson walking Kenz out to calm her down. I then got told that my dog has a problem and this other person is very experienced and knows what they're doing so they were definitely not contributing to the problem. i just sobbed and sobbed because it was all I could do. It was so unfair.

Have fun playing with DWD, again you never know you might end up being a superstar and end up with a super focussed dog who just wants to work for you and doesn't care for anything else while you're doing it!!!

[Pretty Miss Emma]

So Snook, does it just wrap around their chest and then if they pull it tightens around the chest? I sort of feel like it doesn't look to apply pressure to enough parts of the body to act in the way an anxiety wrap does. But what would I know really! Interesting concept though.

[Panzer Attack]

If it had any hope of fitting on Scooter I'd give it a burl, haha.

Speaking of the little turd, my bestie had his whippet puppy over again tonight and Scooter was SO intolerant of him. I don't get my dog at all. He growled at him the entire time and then avoided ME after Arrow had a bit of a snooze on my lap. I haaaaaaaaate how he ignores me whenever he gets the shits with something. Most frustrating bloody dog in the entire world.