Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[BC Crazy]

I am just about to start clicker training too. I have to practise first. I did try it a couple of years ago but couldn't seem to manage it. Not enough hands or something. But am up for another go. I know it will benefit Stella. Instead of me instructing Stel on what to do, it will make Stella think & problem solve.

I have just started reading a suggested read by Corvus. Fired up, Freaked Out & Frantic. Am lovin it. I love the way it is written as it is very simply written & easy to understand as I a very slow learner. Once I get it I am OK. See how we go :)

[Staffyluv]

Would this be why Zig can get overly boisterous at the dog park if let go?

Quite possibly, yes. I know my experiences with staffy types is that they can tend to start play really nicely and appropriately and the more excited they get the more boisterous they get and the less they pay attention to the other dog. They tend to get intense and skip the natural breaks other dogs take during play to let themselves calm down a bit and keep everything nice and safe. It probably was fun for him to a point, but that's how staffies get in trouble at dog parks. They don't mean to upset other dogs, but don't notice when they do because their arousal is up. There is a theory that fighting breeds are not as attentive to social signals as other dogs.

Hey everyone, check out Erik's new tricks:

Reactive dogs have the most fun. ;)

That makes a lot of sense - If I don't pull him out on that high, it used to be so easy for him to just go over the top and stop listening to me.

We leave now before it gets to that. Most times that we go, he gets about half an hour in of nice play and then you can just see him start to get overly excited.

Or if a new dog arrives, he is very stimulated by meeting new dogs..

[corvus]

Great news from everyone!

Hankdog, this update of yours sounds very promising to me. :) I think it's excellent that you've been working on clicker training and jumping and mat work. Kivi's self-confidence soared after body awareness and balance training. He's a completely different dog. Of course, now he's an adventure dog and gives us heart attacks jumping 4m deep gaps in the rocks, and we never used to have to worry about him running onto the road when off leash. So beware! It was worth it to turn him into a much more confident and joyful dog, but there's a price. His recalls need much more work these days. Confident dogs that know what they can do and that it's worth trying stuff are more mentally robust.

Glad you're enjoying the book BC Crazy. I had heard that it was a nice, clear read. Go the clicker training! You can always click with your tongue instead of a clicker. I do with my birds, because I keep forgetting to pick up the clicker. Plus they are very drawn to the shiny yellow button. If they get a glimpse of it they become mesmerised and keep trying to peck it. I have to hide it under the seed container.

Staffyluv, leaving before Zig gets over-aroused sounds like a very good idea. If you wanted to increase the time he can spend with other dogs before you had to move on, you could try teaching him Dee Ganley's chill out game. http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/LoweringArousal.pdf Usually if you practice getting your dog's attention when they are aroused by something they get better and better at it, which is obviously useful. But managing is also acceptable.

[corvus]

Hey everyone, that paper I said I'd written on arousal and emotional state in training has been published. It can be accessed for free here: http://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/3/2/300

It might be a bit heavy, but if you skim the discussion you might see what we're getting at.

[Weasels]

Great work Corvus, congrats on the publication :) I'll have a look through later!

(incidently, though, adding hugely to my guilt about not having published anything from my thesis )

I am starting over with Weez and horses *rolleyes* Barking, lunging and snapping - luckily the horses are older and pretty settled but it's still very uncool. So most mornings Weez's breakfast is in the form of CC/LAT with decreasing distance. Much improvement already, but I still don't trust him alone with them.

[Staffyluv]

That is great news snook, Justice is doing so well.

It is such a head swell when they do something that you have been aiming for, for a long time..

[Staffyluv]

Thanks Staffyluv! The thing is though that I was never even aiming for this. I just assumed it wasn't possible so it's well and truly beyond any expectations I ever had. :D

Yeah they do that.. Constantly test and amaze us :laugh:

The morning of Zig's obedience assessment he was being a right turd but in a playful way - he just wanted to play and even the assessor said to me after, that he was watching us and thought we would be back to do that course again.

But once Zig got to the edge of the ring, he heeled in and never looked back. It was totally awesome and although I knew he could do it, his distraction level that morning had been very high.

[Cosmolo]

Well done Snook and Staffyluv- wonderful updates! Persistent and patient owners certainly reap the rewards.

[hankdog]

Well done Justice, that must make you so happy seeing him relaxed and enjoying himself.

[teekay]

Awesome news Snook, you must have been walking on cloud nine. :D

Well done Ziggy.

Had my nightmare scenario yesterday, while out on a walk with Luka.

We were walking round a small grassy area where we live. There is a little playground at the one end and I could hear children playing there. We went the other side and suddenly there was a lady walking 2 small dogs appeared in front of us. OK we did a quick turn which took us towards the playground. No too bad, I thought, Luka is a little anxious but usually easy to get his focus on me with people, we should be able to get past the playground without too much trouble. Uh oh, there's a dog there too. Turn back to go back the way we came hoping the 2 small dogs have got far enough away and, bloody hell, in comes flying an off leash cattle dog zooming round the park, followed by it's owner holding one of those ball throwing thingies. (This is NOT an off leash park) I'm just stood there behind a bush with Luka but he can hear the cattle dog. I'm thinking what the hell am I supposed to do now and then the family with the dog at the playground decide they are leaving and are coming this way.

Had no choice but to wait til the ball was thrown over the other side of the park and then quickly get Luka out of there. Problem now is, I know where the playground dog lives and it is going to be behind us the whole way home. I decide to get a distance away from the park and then move to the other side of the road and let the dog go past, trying to distract Luka with treats. I guess it wasn't too bad, Luka was obviously anxious but there was no barking or lunging, just whining. Still upset me though. It's at times like that that I feel totally out of my depth.

I was wondering about a thunder shirt. Has anyone tried one and had any success? Now the weather is cooler I may get one to see if there is any improvement

[hankdog]

The perfect dog storm does happen unfortunately. In emergencies I just try my best to stop any movement until the other dogs go away. Pushing him up against a fence helps or just crouching down and becoming a human Thundershirt also helps. I have picked him up and slung him over my shoulder when a really insistent CKCS just had to be friends. Strangely if I body block and yell at an approaching dog with a deep voice Jake will stay behind me. Outward calm is the main thing, I've tried jumping up and down squeaking.....not recommended.

[Staffyluv]

That's brilliant!! Ziggy is such a clever boy!!

Thanks Snook.

Well done Snook and Staffyluv- wonderful updates! Persistent and patient owners certainly reap the rewards.

Thanks Cos, it has been trial and error - one step forward and two back sometimes but I really feel like we are getting somewhere now.

It is sort of like the light just went on one day and it really is easier.

He doesn't even pull like he was.

We still have work to do all the time but I think we always will - on the distraction stuff but he is so much better and to be able to do an obedience assessment with 18 other dogs all sitting on the edge of the ring waiting their turn, was nothing short of amazing and I am so very proud of how far we have come.

Thanks teekay.

Wow, what a nightmare for you and Luka. It is so scary when we end up in situations that we know our dogs react in sometimes.

[hankdog]

Thanks for the paper reference Corvus, it's going to take me a few days to get my brain around but looks good so far.

[Staff'n'Toller]

I haven't tried a thundershirt out and about but I can report that for arousal due to the wind and possums at night time for a dog that won't settle, it's successful 100% of the time.

I see immediate relaxation in the crate and he's asleep in about 5 mins.

[Panzer Attack]

Has anyone got any experience with dogs that scream a lot while being walked? Ru is SO LOUD

[hankdog]

Sorry PA lots of experience but no solution. Just had such a eureka moment though. I took our mat up the drive to start working out and about with it. He had just put himself in a sit when a little dog popped out from behind a ute. He went normal nuts but the other dog just sat down and looked at him. Mmm what to do? He came in between my legs which is favored barking spot so I just waited him out and as soon as he paused for breath clicked him. No response the first two times but third time he took a treat. We carried on for a few more barkus interruptus and he finally stepped down to a solid stare and then right down to LAT looks and finally walked himself away. I'm really happy that he is starting to be able to bring himself down from flat out, this is the first time "in the wild" and not in a training session.

Edited April 19, 2013 by hankdog

[megan_]

Screaming how? Excited? Scared?

[BC Crazy]

So good to hear everyone is having such success of late I'm wrapped for you all. It is a wonderful feeling when you have success no matter how small or big. Snook, Hankdog

Staffyluv...Well done guys

Teekay, I thought you handled that terrible situation very well. Don't be too hard on yourself OK. You did your best in a very stressful position for the both of you. It isn't easy I understand.

Sometimes I just come home in tears with my girl as well Feeling like a complete failure. But sometimes things happen that are completely out of your control & you just have to think fast

& get the hell out of there. Which you did. Keep up the great work :)

Panzor, Screaming with fear?? is that what you mean or frustration. Stella cries with anxiety/fear at times when we are walking on leash but she doesn't do it as much now. When she was young you

could her 2 blocks away It was awfully upsetting. I think maturity & meds have helped her out lots. My boy screams at me when I am teaching him something new out of frustration I think. Sometimes

it makes it hard to train him cause he chucks such a tanti if he doesn't get it first off. He screams & barks at me.

Staffntoller, I have found the Thundershirt to work really well for Stella when we are out & about. She is a very nervous/ noise reactive girl. I have her wear it in stressful situations & I can certainly

see a less fearful girl

Edited April 20, 2013 by BC Crazy

[corvus]

Great work Corvus, congrats on the publication :) I'll have a look through later!

(incidently, though, adding hugely to my guilt about not having published anything from my thesis )

Unpublished work is wasted time. ;)

Hankdog, you must be every behaviourist's dream client. :) You are doing such a great job.

Everyone on this thread does a great job! You guys are such dedicated owners.

Re: Thundershirt - we have one and it appears to lower arousal pretty effectively. I think they are worth a shot if you have a dog that has problems regulating their own arousal at sensible levels. We found it most effective with Erik when his arousal is moderately elevated. If it gets really high the TS won't do much, but if it's just normal high it has a profound effect. He pretty much goes to sleep on the spot. I do a human TS sometimes when out on walks as well. If Erik is in a very touchy mood and is not being very attentive but very noisy he gets a full body squeeze. It does seem to help. Haven't had to do it in a while. He gets them more often at home. Visitors to the house are still one of his biggest worries. Just be aware that arousal is only one component of emotional state and the other is valence (see the paper I posted a link to). IME the TS can lower arousal but that doesn't necessarily mean it changes an emotional association with something. It just means the outward signs of distress are harder to detect.

[BC Crazy]

Corvus yes I agree re Thundershirt. With my girl it seems to help her not to reach the extreme heights of anxiety. I sometimes don't explain myself very well. If I haven't got her TS on & I can see she is getting anxious I will wrap my arms /hands around her girth quite firmly till I feel her breathing slow down & she exhales. Know this sounds weird but have found this does help at times.

Edited April 20, 2013 by BC Crazy