Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[teekay]

Luka and I went to see a new trainer/ behaviourist (not actually sure of the difference ) this morning. She runs a reward based training school that I want to join but we had a one on one to talk about Luka's reactivity first.

We have been having moderate success with the counter conditioning but she recommends we change to BAT (behaviour adjustment training).

Have any of you had success using BAT? After doing a search on here I found a few threads on it but not much. What does everyone think of it? To me it sounds like a gppd idea when scenarios are set up (we had a go with Luka and the trainer had her poodle. seemed to go well but the other dog was about 100 meters away) but difficult to set up that kind of thing on a daily walk basis.

We will certainly give it a go though and we will be going to the fields where they do the training on Sundays to use that set up to practice, so will let you know how we go.

Fingers crossed

[Staffyluv]

New book out some thread participants may be interested in:Fired up, Frantic and Freaked Out

Kudos to all who have been having successes recently.

Thanks for that link corvus, I am going to check out iBooks and see if it is listed there yet as I would really like to read that.

Sounds like lots of us have been having good progress..

I love that photo of Justice, he looks so proud of himself..

I did start a thread for Zig as I was so proud of him today - we had our beginners obedience assessment and we came first a a group of about 16 dogs..

The lad really did me proud.

He did heel, sit, drop, stay, wait, left and right turns, more sits in between heels and a drop during heeling. Then we finished off with a long stay and he was so good.

From a dog that I was told, would never handle obedience to a dog that loves and thrives in the environment.. Don't get me wrong, we still have loads of work to do but for him to come first at his first attempt was such a great feeling and just the boost I needed - I actually feel like I must be doing it right for a change, instead of constantly questioning what I am doing wrong..

The hard work is worth it. He is even walking on a loose lead most of the time - no where near the pulling he was doing.

[corvus]

Have any of you had success using BAT? After doing a search on here I found a few threads on it but not much. What does everyone think of it? To me it sounds like a gppd idea when scenarios are set up (we had a go with Luka and the trainer had her poodle. seemed to go well but the other dog was about 100 meters away) but difficult to set up that kind of thing on a daily walk basis.

I have, but have mostly used it opportunistically with things that Erik wanted more information on but was too aroused to get it sensibly. It is awesome for figuring out whether your dog is a frustrated greeter or wants other dogs to move away from them. It can be kind of hard to tell just by looking at their behaviour when they flip out. I was also using Grisha Stewart's organic socialisation principles with Erik when he was an adolescent, which is based on using functional rewards of distance to reinforce desired behaviour. Same principles as BAT. Grisha is awesome and I totally stalked her at the APDT conference last year. She has a gift for imparting knowledge.

When I used it in socialisation I did not use setups. I used it when Erik met dogs he wasn't comfortable with. Rather than just hustling him away I waited until he offered a nice, non-aggressive social behaviour and then moved him away. I would say it's doable without setups, but I wouldn't say it's easy. I was depending on being able to read E and the other dog involved correctly, and I was aggressively criticised for it by some on here because they felt I was taking outrageous risks. If I had my time again I'd not change a thing. I was very happy with what it did for Erik. It turned him from a nervous one-trick pony into a confident, socially flexible dog.

The principles are also broadly applicable in other areas. E.g. Erik has also learnt to enjoy going into the water using functional rewards.

So glad things are going so well with you and Ziggy, Staffyluv. You have obviously come forward in leaps and bounds.

[hankdog]

Yay, Ziggy you're a legend. Well done Staffyluv, you must be so proud.

Teekay I think the BAT setups are very good, they weren't successful yet for us but we are still using the same principles. I think the value is in having a controlled interdog situation that will allow you to analyse what's happening and what your dog's showing you and it did give me a lot more confidence in handling a meltdown. It's quite a different perspective not having to worry about what the other dog is going to do.

[teekay]

Thanks guys, I have watched a few (ok more than a few :laugh: ) you tube videos and I think I am a bit clearer on the BAT technique.

We headed out on our walk and encountered a couple of off lead dogs at the park. It is a large enough park to be able to have enough distance between Luka and the others dogs so we did a few BAT sessions. Luka did great, he doesn't take long to turn round a look at me and then we walk the other way etc. We saw a couple of other dogs on the walk and utilised BAT then too. All good

I was hyper aware of other dogs though. Concerned that we may get stuck between two dogs. What do you do if there is a dog infront of you and behind you for example? With the CC I would try a get a little distance between Luka and the other dogs ( up on someone's front yard probably) and treat Luka as they went past, which was working for us, but with the BAT I'm not sure what to do.

Also to get home we had to pass 2 front yards with dogs barking and fence running. No way to get the distance for BAT to work . We HAVE to go past them to get home Unfortunately Luka went off, barking and lunging which is the first time he has done that for a few weeks so I'm feeling a bit I know it's because I am feeling a little lost. I understood the counter conditioning and it made sense and we seemed to be making progress but this new trainer thinks BAT will work better so I want to give it a go but it doesn't seem as straight forward as CC and I am scared I am doing it wrong.

Corvus you said BAT was awesome for figuring out whether your dog is a frustrated greeter or wants other dogs to move away from them. Could you expand on that a little because I still do not know whether Luka is scared or over excited.

Cheers

Well done Staffyluv awesome that Zig is doing so well

[hankdog]

Thanks for the book recommendation, Corvus. Definitely something that will be useful to us, so now I will be the crazy bulldog owner who is throwing down a magic carpet for the nutty dog to sleep on, hopefully.

We had a very good session on Thursday, and then on Friday morning he was feral. Got to the top of the drive and he threw a wobbly, waited until that was over but rinse and repeat for about 5 minutes and we had walked about 40m so I went home. Put him inside without a word and went off to do some gardening. Took him out about and hour later and he was very well behaved. I'm such an optimist I label all crazy behavior an extinction burst, but maybe after the day before he just needed to let the crazies out.

Basically Teekay if I get between 2 dogs or in any situation where things are going south I just try get out of there. I have little hiding places on most of my walks that I can duck behind a bush or fence and often use parked cars to shield Jake from seeing stuff he won't cope with. Does your trainer have a dog you can practice setups with? That's probably the easiest way to learn the subtleties. As Corvus said she could read Erik and the other dog but for me as a novice just dealing with Jake was enough, I didn't have the bandwidth to cope with what the other dog was doing.

[chuckandsteve]

Great to hear everyone seems to be doing so well.

We have discovered another issue with our reactive pup, he is terrified of children. We have a baby on the way in about 6 weeks so my Mum bought my 3 year old niece and 8 year old nephew over to see how he would go.

I had the kids behind a baby gate when he first came in, and he wet himself, something he hasn't done before, then he went over and sniffed them, and the kids came in. He avoided them to start with then he wanted a pat from my Mum so went over to her still keeping close to the floor tail between the legs, and went over to the kids to check them out, he let the 8 year old pat him but mouthed at the 3 year old when she did. So that was the end of that. Not sure if we should be looking at getting the trainer in about it or not? Without children present is there anything we can really do? There was no aggression which was good but we aren't really sure what to do

[corvus]

I was hyper aware of other dogs though. Concerned that we may get stuck between two dogs. What do you do if there is a dog infront of you and behind you for example? With the CC I would try a get a little distance between Luka and the other dogs ( up on someone's front yard probably) and treat Luka as they went past, which was working for us, but with the BAT I'm not sure what to do.

It usually happens sooner or later. Having a plan for what to do when it does is very important IMO. Helps you avoid panicking! Grisha encourages hiding behind bushes and cars as well. If there's no way to get distance and no obstacles I either wait it out on the spot or I shovel food into the mouth of whoever is having a meltdown. If they don't settle down enough to offer a default behaviour within half a minute, or won't take the food, I abandon it as any kind of training opportunity and concentrate on getting the distance we need. I can tell you from experience that if you can bring them back to you fast with some kind of structured behaviour after the meltdown, this will pay off eventually. If you are consistent enough the dog will work backwards and start anticipating the structured behaviour as soon as they see the upsetting stimulus. It's not the best way to get results, but it should help.

Also to get home we had to pass 2 front yards with dogs barking and fence running. No way to get the distance for BAT to work . We HAVE to go past them to get home Unfortunately Luka went off, barking and lunging which is the first time he has done that for a few weeks so I'm feeling a bit I know it's because I am feeling a little lost. I understood the counter conditioning and it made sense and we seemed to be making progress but this new trainer thinks BAT will work better so I want to give it a go but it doesn't seem as straight forward as CC and I am scared I am doing it wrong.

If you have to pass them regularly I would honestly drive the dogs past them. At least to begin with. If you can get the distance to approach them from one side or the other from far enough away that Luka isn't reacting it's a great candidate for BAT, but only if you can avoid having to go right past them before Luka is ready. If you have to walk past scary dogs, don't try to use BAT on them. The whole point of BAT is to teach with many tedious and boring repetitions that the dog can control how much exposure they get. I use LAT in these situations instead, because one of the rules of LAT is that we don't engage, so it's a way to reassure the dogs that we aren't going to engage with the scary dogs. But it's a huge ask and I really think the dog has to be very good at LAT to bother trying. Barking, fence-running dogs are intensely confrontational, especially for dogs that are a bit motion reactive. I remember someone dealing with it using the Relaxation Protocol, though. Very time consuming, but this person had dogs running their backyard fence, so they were living with it constantly. They successfully desensitised their dogs to the fence runners next door and everyone lived happily ever after.

BAT is actually really easy when you get down to it. You just have to follow the basic rules and look for disengagement and reward it. I have the BAT seminar dvd if you're interested. I found it very clear and easy to follow. It has lots of BAT setups on it so you can see what you should be looking for, and some good basic tips for body language you should be paying attention to.

Corvus you said BAT was awesome for figuring out whether your dog is a frustrated greeter or wants other dogs to move away from them. Could you expand on that a little because I still do not know whether Luka is scared or over excited.

IME if you get enough distance the animal settles down and everything happens more slowly so it is much easier to see what the animal is doing and what they intend to do. You should find a distance where your dog is not trying to go in any direction particularly, but is aware of the stimulus that triggers them. If you walk them towards it a few metres, then stop, you can watch them and see whether they are worried or interested. I try walking back a step or two and see if my dog eagerly turns away to come with me or stays to keep looking. Same if you go a step or two forwards and wait to see whether your dog follows readily or hangs back. If they are hanging back or turning away, they are probably worried and want the distance. If they are just watching or happy to go forward a few paces, then probably they are information seeking at least. Grisha says you can usually tell if the functional reward is to approach or retreat pretty quickly because if you use the wrong one they get worse or resist you. If they are getting what they want they should stay calm and pliable as long as you are moving nice and slow. Does that make sense? I just play around a bit and figure out how close E can go without getting anxious or aroused, then fiddle around with distances around there and see if he wants to go closer or stay where he is. The main thing is to keep things very slow and gentle. I find with Erik at least that sometimes if he gets over-aroused his interactions with other dogs go a bit haywire. In these cases he genuinely doesn't seem to want to engage with them if I give him enough distance to think about it properly. He's usually pretty good with other dogs and eager to meet and greet, so it's quite revealing that at these times when he can't act appropriately he actually doesn't want to meet and greet.

[corvus]

Not sure if we should be looking at getting the trainer in about it or not? Without children present is there anything we can really do? There was no aggression which was good but we aren't really sure what to do

It's a hard call without seeing what happened, but I would say a counter-conditioning/desensitisation program towards kids would be a good idea. If you're not confident working on this yourself, you should find someone to help you. Perhaps even more importantly, I think you should also take steps to minimise contact with the new baby and with any kids the dog might encounter while the dog gets used to the whole thing. It sounds like there's potential for pup to come around on his own, but you mustn't push him. You want him to feel like he can control how much kid exposure he gets. He should be the one who decides if he gets petted. I taught my 2 year old niece that when Erik walks towards her she can pat him, but if he walks away she must leave him alone. I wasn't sure she would grasp it, but she seemed to. E is a bit leery about kids, but he is improving all the time with these kinds of measures. He has been great with my niece. He doesn't really like her as such, but he is confident that he won't have to interact with her if he doesn't want to and that's what we are striving to preserve. If he knows he can walk away and she won't hassle him he is more inclined to interact with her period.

So I would suggest that now would be a good time to figure out where pup can go where he will be safe from kiddies no matter what and start training him to go there and enjoy it. I'd probably use a crate. It's probably not a bad idea to reward him for choosing to approach kids/babies for a sniff, but keep it very low key. A lick of peanut butter off a spoon sort of thing. This is a moderately cautious approach by my reckoning. I think you should get someone knowledgable to talk to about it who can see your pup. The last thing you want is for things to go south when the baby comes. I'm sure it's not that bad, but I'm uneasy about it without having seen the pup.

[chuckandsteve]

Not sure if we should be looking at getting the trainer in about it or not? Without children present is there anything we can really do? There was no aggression which was good but we aren't really sure what to do

It's a hard call without seeing what happened, but I would say a counter-conditioning/desensitisation program towards kids would be a good idea. If you're not confident working on this yourself, you should find someone to help you. Perhaps even more importantly, I think you should also take steps to minimise contact with the new baby and with any kids the dog might encounter while the dog gets used to the whole thing. It sounds like there's potential for pup to come around on his own, but you mustn't push him. You want him to feel like he can control how much kid exposure he gets. He should be the one who decides if he gets petted. I taught my 2 year old niece that when Erik walks towards her she can pat him, but if he walks away she must leave him alone. I wasn't sure she would grasp it, but she seemed to. E is a bit leery about kids, but he is improving all the time with these kinds of measures. He has been great with my niece. He doesn't really like her as such, but he is confident that he won't have to interact with her if he doesn't want to and that's what we are striving to preserve. If he knows he can walk away and she won't hassle him he is more inclined to interact with her period.

So I would suggest that now would be a good time to figure out where pup can go where he will be safe from kiddies no matter what and start training him to go there and enjoy it. I'd probably use a crate. It's probably not a bad idea to reward him for choosing to approach kids/babies for a sniff, but keep it very low key. A lick of peanut butter off a spoon sort of thing. This is a moderately cautious approach by my reckoning. I think you should get someone knowledgable to talk to about it who can see your pup. The last thing you want is for things to go south when the baby comes. I'm sure it's not that bad, but I'm uneasy about it without having seen the pup.

Thanks, this was pretty much what i was thinking, the mouthing was definately because he didnt want my niece to touch him, so i was thinking it might not be so bad with baby as baby wont try to interact. It nice to get some dog savvy peoples opinions

They have already had house access restricted, respond immediately to outside command and have been spending time outside when we are home. They have all had access to all of babies stuff to check it out so i think we are as prepared as possible. Ive got some blankets to wrap bubs in at the hospital too which hubby can take home and give to pups before we bring bubs home.

[BC Crazy]

Stella is still going pretty well though we did have a bit of a run in with her non favourite boxer bitch that she has hated since a puppy. Stella was in swimming with me when the boxer

suddenly appeared & began to walk past us along the shore. I didn't see her coming or I would of grabbed Stella. Stella ran out of the water growling & had a face off with her. The boxer is submissive, lays down

& Stella charges over to her, growls at her face. She never bites her or anything but I hate that stand over, bullish behaviour. I didn't engage Stella but walked quickly over & took her by the collar & turned her away

from the boxer so she could get up & leave. I put Stella in a down position for a few minutes & ignored her before realising her. The owner of the boxer never has a lead for her girl which I don't agree with.

I sure as hell wouldn't leave the house with a dog & no lead myself but anyway I so wish I could stop Stella's from doing this.Why she does it is beyond me. And it is very random. I usually can intervene & LAT with her works

but I blame myself this time as I didn't see the boxer coming. Other than this incident she has been going well am trying to stay positive though. Don't know if there is a better way for me to handle her

when she is in the moment, standing over another dog, to discourage this behaviour? interested in others positive input. What should I do besides what I did? Is their a more effective punishment or deterrent?

Edited April 10, 2013 by BC Crazy

[Tassie]

Personally, it seems to me that you handled it pretty well BC Crazy. Stella was left in no doubt that you were not happy with the bullying and found it unacceptable - and the Boxer was allowed to get up and go. You know what I would think you should be happy about - although Stella was bullying no blood was spilt, no damage done, and I think you handled it decisively and calmly. .

And if it's any comfort, most BCs that I know (mind included) really dislike Boxers intensely - and any of the forward leaning upright standing mastiff breeds - they read the body language as threatening. I know I've tried explaining to mine that the Boxers etc. can't help it ... it's just the way they are - of course it akes no difference, but it does allow me to use a calm voice :laugh: . And I've read about the same prejudiced behaviour and aattitude (from the BCs) on American sites - so it's not just here :D .

Good to hear that things are on the improve generally with you and yours. Long may that continue.

[Staffyluv]

Personally, it seems to me that you handled it pretty well BC Crazy. Stella was left in no doubt that you were not happy with the bullying and found it unacceptable - and the Boxer was allowed to get up and go. You know what I would think you should be happy about - although Stella was bullying no blood was spilt, no damage done, and I think you handled it decisively and calmly. .

And if it's any comfort, most BCs that I know (mind included) really dislike Boxers intensely - and any of the forward leaning upright standing mastiff breeds - they read the body language as threatening. I know I've tried explaining to mine that the Boxers etc. can't help it ... it's just the way they are - of course it akes no difference, but it does allow me to use a calm voice :laugh: . And I've read about the same prejudiced behaviour and aattitude (from the BCs) on American sites - so it's not just here :D .

Good to hear that things are on the improve generally with you and yours. Long may that continue.

I agree with Tassie, I think BC Crazy handled the situation with Stella fine.

The boxers owner probably doesn't use a lead because she knows her dog is submissive and won't be a problem - not that I think that is right but some people just think funny. My sister has a very submissive and friendly stafford and she never has a lead on him - again, I don't agree with it but it isn't my dog and I have no say.

All we can do is the best thing by our dogs.

Tassie it isn't just BCs that read the poor old Boxer's wrong - I know plenty of dogs of different breeds that react the same way.

We have an adorable boxer in our obedience class and half the class snip at him and he is the most adorable boy, not pushy at all. Zig adores him and they play really well together.

Lots of dogs don't like the way staffords come in all confident and rough house either.

It is funny isn't it.. But then I guess as humans we don't like everyone we meet, so why should we expect our dogs to.

[BC Crazy]

Oh thanks Tassie for your vote of confidence. It's funny with the Boxer thing cause Stella as I say has hated this girl from the word go & I did speak to her breeder regarding this reaction

very early in the piece & she said the exact same thing as you. The upright stance of the Boxer is very confronting & they read it as threatening. And their kind of bouncy & goofy. Their play

style is completely different to BC's. Another funny thing is this particular Boxer & Sonny my male BC used to be besties before I got Stella. Since then that bitch can't come within 50 feet of Sonny

cause Stella charges her. She is OK with other Boxers, she ignores them,she doesn't charge at them like she is going to rip their heads off. I think their may be a jealously issue involved as well.

Anyway I am so glad their was no blood spilt too. Stella got the message I was NOT happy jan :laugh: She was very sheepish with me for a while after.

She is making marked improvement ATM. Only little things but mostly positive so I am very pleased. Just worried she will get badly hurt one day if she picks the wrong dog to throw her weight around with.

That's another thing she rarely does that awful behaviour now & she used to do it quite often when she was an adolesent. I so hope I can train it out of her eventually. Maybe just won't happen with Boxers though :)

[corvus]

Sounds like you are well prepared, chuckandsteve.

BC Crazy, there's every possibility she's making a pre-emptive strike. It's the kind of thing Erik does to bully breed puppies. It's driven by fear, not a need to be obnoxious or something. It's E saying "Don't come near me!", which is counter-intuitive because he has to run them down to say that. But if you look at it from a different perspective, if he shouts at them BEFORE they can jump on his head, which is really unpleasant for him, then he trades the unpleasantness of being bounced on with the unpleasantness of being confrontational, but with the latter he maintains control of the situation. Given he has a strong herding instinct, this is a big drawcard for him. He NEEDS to be in control of stuff. His genes tell him so. Plus being in control of aversive situations makes them less aversive. There is lots of scientific evidence for this. That's why negative reinforcement (e.g. BAT, CAT) can be quite effective in changing behaviour driven by fear.

It's worth remembering that whenever dogs get very aroused or upset they tend to revert to instinctive behaviours. Erik is a cattle herding breed, so for him this is a very bold and noisy rush, and he will snap at heels if he's really aroused. He will try to drive whatever upsets him. I know another Vallhund that bites heels when she gets very aroused. It is what they have been bred to do.

Whatever the case, I am guessing Stella's behaviour is largely a result of elevated arousal. If you can get the arousal down it will probably happen less, and you'll have more time to get her through it with LAT.

The other possibility is she's being a bully. IMO it's better to assume it's fear-driven. Particularly because this is Stella we're talking about. Erik gets rewarded for doing pretty much anything around bully puppies other than rushing them and trying to aggressively drive them off. It does work, but you have to be pretty quick sometimes to get those rewards in before he decides to do something that makes other dog park users call him vicious.

[corvus]

This goes for everyone: I think it's beneficial to pay a lot of attention to arousal and be aware it doesn't really matter what the emotional state is. Erik gets very aroused in a good way for training, but the tradeoff is he's about 70% likely to rush a dog if it comes by our training area, and a lot of that is attributed to the fact that he's so focused on training he doesn't see them coming so they surprise him. If there are lots of dogs around he's only about 5% likely to rush another dog when he's training. It's the same sort of thing as trigger stacking. If I know E is aroused and having a great time, I also know he's more likely to overreact to other things, so I can manage that by anticipating it. This is where LAT on cue comes in handy. You can use it to warn your dog when things are coming. I usually go one step further and put E in a down-stay as well as cueing LAT.

[BC Crazy]

I agree with what you are saying corvus. I think it is very fer based. I also think she charges at them to keep them away from us.Stella doesn't like dogs coming too close to me or trying to join in with us.

She is fine with most dogs but the ones she perceives as threats, she charges at them, running & growling. Thats where it is so hard to predict or intervene to stop her. She tries to get Sonny to do it as well cause she looks at

him or runs at him first like, 'come on lets get em' type thing. I am pleased Sonny doesn't join her. If anything I have noticed Sonny run after Stella while she is charging on occassion at the other dog & he nips her on her

back. Telling her off is what it looks like to me & then he comes straight back to me. I am very pleased she doesn't do this charging thing nearly as often as she used to as I can never predict just which dog will set her off. It

is never small dogs & her fav dog is a 60 kg Malamute, she adores him.

Stella is very,very easily aroused. She can go from 0 to 100 in a split second. She can be sound asleep at home, hear something, anything, then she is off flat out, running & crying at the same time. I also find movement

arouses her. Like if other dogs are running past or playing near us, she starts crying & getting anxious & ready to run at them. With the meds I have noticed a big difference with the speed at which she returns to a calm state

which is great.

Edited April 10, 2013 by BC Crazy

[Staffyluv]

Sounds like you are well prepared, chuckandsteve.

BC Crazy, there's every possibility she's making a pre-emptive strike. It's the kind of thing Erik does to bully breed puppies. It's driven by fear, not a need to be obnoxious or something. It's E saying "Don't come near me!", which is counter-intuitive because he has to run them down to say that. But if you look at it from a different perspective, if he shouts at them BEFORE they can jump on his head, which is really unpleasant for him, then he trades the unpleasantness of being bounced on with the unpleasantness of being confrontational, but with the latter he maintains control of the situation. Given he has a strong herding instinct, this is a big drawcard for him. He NEEDS to be in control of stuff. His genes tell him so. Plus being in control of aversive situations makes them less aversive. There is lots of scientific evidence for this. That's why negative reinforcement (e.g. BAT, CAT) can be quite effective in changing behaviour driven by fear.

It's worth remembering that whenever dogs get very aroused or upset they tend to revert to instinctive behaviours. Erik is a cattle herding breed, so for him this is a very bold and noisy rush, and he will snap at heels if he's really aroused. He will try to drive whatever upsets him. I know another Vallhund that bites heels when she gets very aroused. It is what they have been bred to do.

Whatever the case, I am guessing Stella's behaviour is largely a result of elevated arousal. If you can get the arousal down it will probably happen less, and you'll have more time to get her through it with LAT.

The other possibility is she's being a bully. IMO it's better to assume it's fear-driven. Particularly because this is Stella we're talking about. Erik gets rewarded for doing pretty much anything around bully puppies other than rushing them and trying to aggressively drive them off. It does work, but you have to be pretty quick sometimes to get those rewards in before he decides to do something that makes other dog park users call him vicious.

Would this be why Zig can get overly boisterous at the dog park if let go?

I watch him and don't let his excitement levels get like that anymore but I used to think that he was just having fun - but if I tried to recall him once he got to a point, I had no chance of him coming to me.

We only hang with the same group who all play well together but I can still see how excited Zig gets when a new dog comes into the mix. He is definitely more aroused by a new dog than the others.

[corvus]

Would this be why Zig can get overly boisterous at the dog park if let go?

Quite possibly, yes. I know my experiences with staffy types is that they can tend to start play really nicely and appropriately and the more excited they get the more boisterous they get and the less they pay attention to the other dog. They tend to get intense and skip the natural breaks other dogs take during play to let themselves calm down a bit and keep everything nice and safe. It probably was fun for him to a point, but that's how staffies get in trouble at dog parks. They don't mean to upset other dogs, but don't notice when they do because their arousal is up. There is a theory that fighting breeds are not as attentive to social signals as other dogs.

Hey everyone, check out Erik's new tricks:

Reactive dogs have the most fun. ;)

[hankdog]

Haha Corvus looks like Erik is getting on top if his trainer...er training.

We had another good session today. We managed to encourage Jake to walk away from Bolt his "helper " dog a few times and finally he managed to turn and walk quite confidently away by himself, he was loose leash for most of the session and even when he is barking there really isn't much heat in the bark.

He just seems to be gaining confidence generally as well. We've been working on some jumping skills, at home agility involving hoops and couches and boxes. I put his peanut butter jar on the picnic table at the park this morning and without any effort he jumped onto the bench and table. Probably naughty but it's good to see him trying stuff and using initiative. I've also included his mat training into his afternoon clicker session and he's got lying down head on paws so next week we will be taking that outside and then out in the road. I'm such a clicker convert its amazing how you can capture the subtle behaviors so quickly, I could have lured a down on the mat but unlikely I could have got the instant response of "mat out lay down, head on paws". 6 months ago I would have laughed if you suggested clicker training for me or Jake.