Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[BC Crazy]

Would love you to send me your training clips. Stella is a very nervy / reactive/protective/fearful/anxious girl. Almost anything can ignite her.

We have made some progress. She is really good with push bikes & skate boards now which is something but we are going nowhere fast atm.

I hav heard good results with the water bottle thing but I also thought it may make her more fearful if that is possible

[Weasels]

Would love you to send me your training clips. Stella is a very nervy / reactive/protective/fearful/anxious girl. Almost anything can ignite her.

We have made some progress. She is really good with push bikes & skate boards now which is something but we are going nowhere fast atm.

I hav heard good results with the water bottle thing but I also thought it may make her more fearful if that is possible

Will do, it's 14 minutes long but really goes through the whole process. The other thing I found really helped was to give Weez his own 'job', for a while he would just chase my other dog around, but once I got him to chase his own ball he stopped trying to chase kids - tug would work better to redirect him, but he still won't tug outside the house.

The water bottle would probably work with overexcitement or similar to distract a dog, but my approach to fear-behaviour is to make previously scary things a cue that only awesome stuff is going to happen :)

[BC Crazy]

Yes, Stella is a ball girl & loves playing fetch. She also loves tugs but if she is in a heightened state she just goes into an almost trance like emotional state. Her eyes are glazed in an instant & she see's & hears nothing. I can't reach her to engage her in anything to distract her, if that makes any sense.

[Weasels]

Yes, Stella is a ball girl & loves playing fetch. She also loves tugs but if she is in a heightened state she just goes into an almost trance like emotional state. Her eyes are glazed in an instant & she see's & hears nothing. I can't reach her to engage her in anything to distract her, if that makes any sense.

Yep I understand completely, the trick is to get in just at that tipping point after they notice but before they go over-threshold and their brain goes awol! Choosing the thing they react to least at the distance they can handle is the best way to start, it's like getting a crowbar into that wedge between reacting and not reacting, then the more you work in that space the more time they will give you in between interest and reaction!

[Tassie]

Sorry to hear about your troubles, BC. No great suggestions from me - except to say that I'd be inclined to try to use the LAT game sort of thing for the barking At the first bark - pay attnetion, thank her for letting you know that something was going on, and then try to get her engaged in some productive task, and as LBD says - trying to get in before she's tipped into a frenzied barking.

I just wanted to pick p on your comment

Maybe she needs more mental work

. Yes, yes, yes ... IMO, a BC can never have too much mental work - done in a rewarding, fun way. Short sharp bursts - unexpected is good - and it really doesn't matter what you're teaching as long as it's engaing and fun. Have a look on the net for trick traiing etc. And a good opportunity for some platform work - doesn't need much space.

[BC Crazy]

Thanks Tassie. My main concern is getting the timing exactly right when doing LAT with her otherwise I'd be rewarding her for reactiveness. Thats the last thing I want to do.

I am not the best with training , so I will have to rely on google. Just no imagination & to be honest it doesn't interest me as much as other activities do. So I'm going to have to lift my game big time in that area as well.

ATM I'm bloody exhausted between running after OH & the 2 'kids'. I'll need another holiday to get over this one LOL.

[huski]

Have you seen a behaviourist with her BC Crazy? It might help to have some professional guidance? (sorry if you have and I've just missed that).

[Weasels]

Thanks Tassie. My main concern is getting the timing exactly right when doing LAT with her otherwise I'd be rewarding her for reactiveness. Thats the last thing I want to do.

I am not the best with training , so I will have to rely on google. Just no imagination & to be honest it doesn't interest me as much as other activities do. So I'm going to have to lift my game big time in that area as well.

ATM I'm bloody exhausted between running after OH & the 2 'kids'. I'll need another holiday to get over this one LOL.

As much as I love LAT, with a dog as anxious as Stella I would always use just plain old counter-conditioning first. LAT requires a choice to perform the behaviour, I like to work on the unthinking 'just-react' part of the brain first through classical conditioning (when you see the bad thing, ALL you have to do is eat this chicken. After enough trials, the dog will automatically see the bad thing and think "Chicken is about to happen!!" instead of "Aahhhhh that's freaking me out!"). Once that reactivity habit is short-circuited, then LAT and other learned behaviours are great :)

I wouldn't worry about rewarding the reactiveness either: once she's reacting she's really in no state to be learning much. And even if it is rewarding the barking, a learned behaviour is SO MUCH easier to extinguish than a behaviour which is just a manifestation of a strong emotion :)

[Tassie]

Yes, you're right LBD - and if you're classically conditioning, you're going to keep doing it - like I do with my nearly 11 year old wannabe car chaser - although it turns into a sort of LAT, without me having done it as that. She sees/hears a car coming (this is mainly on country roads with only occasional traffic) and looks at me without prompting. Mind you, she sometimes does that when it's only wind in the trees - souinds like a car .

Poor you BC Crazy - this could be a looooong 3 months.

[BC Crazy]

That makes perfect sense to me LBD. In Stella reactitive moments if I give her the choice to either LAT or chase that passing dog, I know what she'd choose every time And because she is so reactive it has made any form of training a very slow process. As you say she is oblivious to everything & completely shuts down in her extremely high state of arousal.

So we have just put a bag of chopped bbq chicken in the esky in the annexe this morning & have a couple of instances with passing golf buggies & dogs with immediate improvement already. Im wrapped with any positive directiion :)

Yes Tassie, your very right there. Men are just the worst patients LOL. Poor bugger I feel so sorry for him though. He works sooo hard all year & this happens to him. He thought he was just going to get a few stitches come back & go out fishing again. Wrong ..... Cut through his Archilles, ouch!

Oh well not much we can do but make the best of it :)

Edited February 13, 2013 by BC Crazy

[Weasels]

Yes, you're right LBD - and if you're classically conditioning, you're going to keep doing it - like I do with my nearly 11 year old wannabe car chaser - although it turns into a sort of LAT, without me having done it as that. She sees/hears a car coming (this is mainly on country roads with only occasional traffic) and looks at me without prompting. Mind you, she sometimes does that when it's only wind in the trees - souinds like a car .

Poor you BC Crazy - this could be a looooong 3 months.

Yep that's the best part - once you're both improving the association and teaching an alternative behaviour, then you're really motoring

That makes perfect sense to me LBD. In Stella reactitive moments if I give her the choice to either LAT or chase that passing dog, I know what she'd choose every time

So we have just put a bag of chopped bbq chicken in the esky in the annexe this morning & have a couple of instances with passing golf buggies & dogs with immediate improvement already. Im wrapped with any positive directiion :)

Awesome awesome awesome! Remember if she does react then you will take a step back, but you can always regain any losses you've made with patience and repitition :) Sending good vibes for your poor OH too!

[hankdog]

Jake came at LAT backwards. Forever with just classical conditioning and then just getting him to take the treat with his head turned away from the dog. Vicki managed to get him to do it on cue and then just with practicing on everything that caught his attention he got it. Unfortunately it's a little bit of a double edged sword, he easily does LAT on a fenced dog but it's no help trying to get him past a moving dog. I'm also not entirely sure I haven't trained him to make a fuss to get treats. Somedays I think the more I train him I just get a smarter reactive dog rather than a less reactive one. Oh well he walks nicely on leash so at least I got that.

[BC Crazy]

Yes, you're right LBD - and if you're classically conditioning, you're going to keep doing it - like I do with my nearly 11 year old wannabe car chaser - although it turns into a sort of LAT, without me having done it as that. She sees/hears a car coming (this is mainly on country roads with only occasional traffic) and looks at me without prompting. Mind you, she sometimes does that when it's only wind in the trees - souinds like a car .

Poor you BC Crazy - this could be a looooong 3 months.

Yep that's the best part - once you're both improving the association and teaching an alternative behaviour, then you're really motoring

That makes perfect sense to me LBD. In Stella reactitive moments if I give her the choice to either LAT or chase that passing dog, I know what she'd choose every time

So we have just put a bag of chopped bbq chicken in the esky in the annexe this morning & have a couple of instances with passing golf buggies & dogs with immediate improvement already. Im wrapped with any positive directiion :)

Awesome awesome awesome! Remember if she does react then you will take a step back, but you can always regain any losses you've made with patience and repitition :) Sending good vibes for your poor OH too!

[/quote

Thanks for your support & kind thoughts. Much appreciated LBD.

Well we had a pretty good with Stella. She did react to most things but she did settle so much quicker than usual. She also didn't get to the same dizzy heights of reactivity as she did yesterday.

We do however have 2 major issues, one being an electric wheelchair that wizzes by our annexe on a regular basis, Stella goes balistic.... she must hear it coming way before we do because she is going off well before I see the chair coming.

The other issue is she decided she might slip out under the annexe tonight while I was in the shower & tell next doors Aussie Bulldog exactly what she thought of him miss smarty pants & hes a lovely dog. Lucky OH got called her back & placed her in a very stern down/stay on her bed.

But not without the whole street checking out the commition

[bianca.a]

BC - sending you much strength for the next few months *hugs* Where abouts are you (just general)? If you are anywhere near me Vic - our 2 crazy girls could meet and have a bark off :laugh: . I hope tomorrow is a better day for you and your DH heals as fast as possible.

[hankdog]

Thats great Snook, I love hearing positive updates especially if we are battling because it gives me hope. We think part of Jakes problem is that because his eyes are so divergent he can't actually see a dog until its too close. He appears to swap eyes to look with so he probably doesn't have stereo vision and not much depth perception. I use this to my advantage when I don't want him to react so if I just put him behind a small bush or bin and keep his head turned to me I can often let a dog go by unnoticed. However the problem comes with getting him to see a dog when it's far enough away to be under threshold, at the moment I'm experimenting him with telling him the dog is there when he can't see it, getting his head pointed in the dogs direction and then cueing LAT so his reaction goes up to 5 before he can see the dog but then not much more once he can see it.

We are trying to parallel walk at the moment, Vicki believes that he throws a fit because that's just what he does, he has had all the positive stuff and can turn it on when he wants to but just doesn't . He goes nuts for a bit and eventually quietens out if exhaustion. Watching him when he's going off though he will stop when he turns his head away or if we walk behind a car but when he sees the dog again it's like "a dog, where'd that come from, freak out."

Anyway we will try this a few times and see if it makes a dent in his paintwork, we did end up standing chatting ignoring the dogs and he eventually lay down so we will see. I don't expect he will ever be dog friendly but I would like him to be able to walk past a dog without a tantrum.

Edited February 13, 2013 by hankdog

[BC Crazy]

Hi Snook & thanks for your concerns. With the LAT thing I find atm Stella wont except the treats, when she is in a reactive state. At other times like at home she was working really well with LAT & would sit & focus on me. IMHO I think she is more anxious lately because I am with the present circumstances with OH & all so am trying to suck it all up for now & put in a braver face for her sake & see if thay helps her.

I did see a glimpse of improvement yesterday so heres hoping

Have tried DAP collars & spray to no avail. No change in her at all

Edited February 13, 2013 by BC Crazy

[Staffyluv]

Just a quick pop in to see how everyone is going.

I don't like to offer much advice because I just don't know enough to do so. It is better to just tell what we are doing now and the issues we are having - what works for us, may work for someone else as well.

BC Stella sounds lots like Zig - he accepts the treats at home and everything he does is awesome but out, his level of concentration in an area full of distraction is so little.

We have been working on one or two things only at a time, every time we go out to the park. We always end with a 10 minute play session of him chasing me for his ball.

This morning we did heel and come..

We use a tennis ball because I have totally given up on the treats - he just won't take them no matter how hungry he seems to be in a distracted environment.

But the tennis ball is king and it wins even over other dogs now.

He is doing really well. This morning he was doing so well there were 2 lots of people watching him and when we finished they came over to see if their dogs could say hello and to ask where we go to training (cause they want their dogs to be that good )..

Mind you as soon as the other dogs were that close it all went out the window.. But we did regain some composure and he got to meet 3 new dogs (2 staffs and an ACD).

[corvus]

BC Crazy, what's happening with Stella's medication at the moment? Sounds like she could do with a temporary increase?

Incidentally, counter-conditioning can be easier if you use a Thundershirt or some similar calming aid. We hit a milestone with counter-conditioning this week. Erik skirted softball practice without even needing any guidance or support or reminders of what he should do from me. He noticed and just didn't really care. WIN. He will undoubtedly have days where he will need help again, but this was a first and it's been months in the making. I hate CC. So tedious. But it's so important. And I should be grateful I can do it at all. It takes a lot of foundation work before you can counter-condition a hare. Desensitisation is even more slow and tedious.

We currently have Erik on tryptophan supplements for a while to see if it helps him. He isn't bad at the moment, so it seemed like a good time to get him on it for a month or two and see if it turns him from a good dog into an angel at home. ;) We tried it before, but probably not for long enough to really see if it helped. He's doing me proud at the moment. He tries so hard and the work I've done with him is really visible. He still chases and drives the dogs at the river when they are playing fetch, but he comes back on his own and sits or downs in front of me to take a breather from being wildly aroused. This is so nice. His worst trigger is my mum's dog playing fetch. He just goes glassy-eyed and loses it. We are working backwards, starting with getting him nice and functional around strange dogs playing fetch and going towards the one who taught him to go ballistic when dogs are playing fetch in the first place.

[BC Crazy]

Bianca c, thanks so much for your kind thoughts :) gotta love this thread for all the support & experience. I'm sure our 2 would be the very best of friends.

Corvus, Stella is on a 3/4 of her meds. I have to take her to the Vet tomorrow actually as she had something in her eye so I'm going to enquire about increasing the dose for a short time as she is quite aggertated.

[hankdog]

Have to say thanks to Staffyluv for the squish against a wall tip. I was sitting on the side of the road, which sloped down quite a bit, taking a stone out my shoe when the maremma apoeared on our side of the road at the top of the bank we were sitting on. It's a monster and doesn't have patience for Jake. I abandoned my shoe and launched self and dog at the wall, really helped keeping him still. Thanks for that one!