Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[hankdog]

We also had a better week- the reactive dog roller coaster. To my utter surprise Jake got the idea of clicker training with the box, I pretty much just click for whatever he does different from the day before. His pattern of reactivity this week seems to be to react hugely but settle quickly. We've latted so much he probably has whiplash. We played with his box at Vicki's, he was giving her slobbery kisses and showing a little bit of his clown side. We let him sniff Chilli through the gate and he got a bit freaked out and barked a bit but then quietened down, so we took him through and showed him the quarantine dogs behind the fence. He did freak out but we managed to get him back without too much trouble and he was loose leash most of the time and then we took him out and played box again. Must have been mentally exhausting for him, he fell asleep in the car and didn't bark at any of the dogs we passed and then could barely keep awake doing his TOT for dinner, eyes kept closing and head drooping.

Edited January 14, 2013 by hankdog

[Cosmolo]

Well done Snook! That is great!

[hankdog]

Phew Snook you sound busy. Hope you feel better soon, well done Justice, you're a legend.

[Guest Panzer Attack!]

Holy crap, I've just realised how long it's been since I've had to post in here ... And I'm only hear to brag about my amazing little dog!

Today we were all at an off-lead oval (empty when we arrived) and a guy rocked up with his elderly GSD. I was pretty worried considering Scooter has been attacked by one before, so I recalled him as soon as he saw it - and he came! - and then allowed him over once he was calm. He nicely sniffed the dog's butt and recalled again. I then threw his ball and all was forgotten!

I've relaxed SO much when it comes to his reactivity, so he's no longer feeding off my nerves. The only incident we have had of late was when we were at a pet store and some idiot like lightning ran over to "socialise" her hyper puppy and got snapped at for it. "Eww what a horrible little dog!" she sneered as I rewarded Scooter for escaping as soon as she backed off (he was cornered) and ignored the dog. Poor Noodle. He's tolerating dogs at work, kids, skateboards etc.

Now to work on his 100 other issues lol.

X

[hankdog]

Panzer bragging is a good thing, encourages everyone. Sucks that Justice has taken a step back, I keep telling myself it will be like scar tissue and once recovered the dog will be stronger!

Today we had a cattle dog jump off a ute to get to us, in 12 years of walking my beautiful bomb proof Hank I probably had 5 off leash incidents but Jake seems to be an off leash magnet. It was a youngish dog, we had done some nice calm looking and treating as he drove past and were walking off when suddenly there it was nose wedged in Jakes behind. I think it was really just being over enthusiastic rather than aggressive but suddenly found myself in the middle of two dogs going round and round my legs. Poor Jake, his eyes nearly popped out his head. What was interesting was how calm and quiet everything was, no barking or growling, I just grabbed jakes harness and used it to lift him up since the leashes were wrapping me up and then the owner turned up and picked up his dog, felt bad because he was angry and a bit nasty to the dog. So I started treating and patting Jake and we watched the dog being driven away and then found some fenced dogs down the street to look at. I actually think we may survive this one quite well.

Edited January 24, 2013 by hankdog

[Staffyluv]

I am not sure what has happened with Zig - I haven't changed anything but he is reverting back to full on pulling, ignoring commands etc..

You think you have it all under control but then he goes and has a day like yesterday.

We were at the park - he got to meet 3 other dogs (all met before). He doesn't get to barge in (we turn around and walk the other way as soon as he starts to pull on the lead) - he only gets to meet if he walks in calmly.

I spent most of the walk yesterday changing direction - this just does not work anymore.

Neither does the wait or slow down command.

I have never been able to get him to walk with his head beside my leg - he has always been head and shoulders in front.

We have tried walking against a fence, so that I can keep in front of him and this works but as soon as there is no fence, he pulls back out the front.

He will be 2 at the end of March.

His recall is still good (not outstanding but he does come when called). Sits and stays are fine as is drop and wait.

At home before we go for a walk, I put his collar and lead on and then we wait until he calms a bit before leaving (he always waits for people to go in and out of doors before him - always has).

Then we get in the car and go to the park. I open the car door and he doesn't get out until invited to come out.

Then we start walking and he was immediately pulling, so I change direction or stop and won't go until he comes back (which he does and then waits for me to go again). As soon as I start to walk again, he is pulling out front.

I don't know what happened in the last week or so to make this change in behaviour yesterday - the day before he was great, no lead pulling and just cruising head and shoulders in front of me..

Why do they test us so??

He is a big strong dog - I cannot have him reacting like this.

I have done 2 classes with a behaviorist and trainer.

I was wondering if it is to late for basic obedience classes because I think that is what he needs - we need to go back to basics AGAIN!

[hankdog]

I don't think it's ever too late, Jake is 5 and only just learned to leash walk. Some days I think it's character building and other days I wonder if I was particularly evil on a prior life!

I wonder if our dogs got together and decided to stage a joint regression ?

Edited January 25, 2013 by hankdog

[megan_]

Hugs to all. I guess dogs are like humans - they have good days and bad days.

Snook - no real surprise re: Justice going backwards a little. However, he gave nice safe signals to Amy's dogs that he didn't want to engage - good work Mr Justice! Lucy actually comes back from staying at the Cosmolo's with other dogs a much more relaxed and confident dog. Their pack is very well behaved and they give her the space she needs. Not that she needs it any more because she loves going there. She even played with one of their big dogs last time, which is a first for her.

My dogs love their fit paws too. In fact, Lucy tries to jump on the peanut while I'm still carrying it , so we're working on calming her down a bit.

Staffyluv - never to old for basics. The issue might be engagement, which the vast majority of schools never teach. Without engagement it is really hard to train a dog. There are some good threads on this forum that talk about building engagement and focus - I'll try to find some later.

I looked after my cousins dogs for a few days over Christmas (Lucy stayed at Cosmolo's) and it made me appreciate my little bitch even more. Sure she has issues, but she loves training, works really hard and understands the training process. My cousin's youngest dog can't walk on the lead and doesn't engage. It was hard work.

Lucy has been doing really well out and about. I'm slightly reducing my LAT, and letting her make decisions herself (with maybe an "its okay" thrown in to guide her). She has made some really great decisions. For example, at agility, two staffy crosses were being a bit bioustrous playing with their owner. Lucy was on leash, held by Mr Cosmolo while I worked Fergs. Rather than react negatively, she moved to the end of the leash, furthest away from the staffys in a really nice, calm manner. She did this a few times. So she is learning to avoid trouble rather than arking up.

We went back to agility for a session again last week and Georgie (Cosmolo's large bull arab girl) was in a drop. Lucy was so excited to see Cosmolo she was doing a full body wag and dance. Very cute. Georgie stayed in her drop but did a commando crawl over to Lucy to say hello. Lucy bounced over to her, gave her a nice greeting, and bounced on over back to me (in my head she was squealling "that's my friend Georgie!"). Even better, when we started to work she ignored Cosmolo's dogs and worked really well, although this is something she normally does - great little worker!

She is getting more territorial at home and it is something that I plan to work on this year. One small step at a time.

[Staffyluv]

I don't think it's ever too late, Jake is 5 and only just learned to leash walk. Some days I think it's character building and other days I wonder if I was particularly evil on a prior life!

I wonder if our dogs got together and decided to stage a joint regression ?

I have no idea but he was so bad yesterday that I didn't walk him at all today. We did some training here at home and he hasn't had any food unless it come from me today (trying to get him to make me the focus of his attention again - which isn't easy with a dog that really doesn't seem to care if he eats or not).

Hugs to all. I guess dogs are like humans - they have good days and bad days.

Snook - no real surprise re: Justice going backwards a little. However, he gave nice safe signals to Amy's dogs that he didn't want to engage - good work Mr Justice! Lucy actually comes back from staying at the Cosmolo's with other dogs a much more relaxed and confident dog. Their pack is very well behaved and they give her the space she needs. Not that she needs it any more because she loves going there. She even played with one of their big dogs last time, which is a first for her.

My dogs love their fit paws too. In fact, Lucy tries to jump on the peanut while I'm still carrying it , so we're working on calming her down a bit.

Staffyluv - never to old for basics. The issue might be engagement, which the vast majority of schools never teach. Without engagement it is really hard to train a dog. There are some good threads on this forum that talk about building engagement and focus - I'll try to find some later.

I looked after my cousins dogs for a few days over Christmas (Lucy stayed at Cosmolo's) and it made me appreciate my little bitch even more. Sure she has issues, but she loves training, works really hard and understands the training process. My cousin's youngest dog can't walk on the lead and doesn't engage. It was hard work.

Lucy has been doing really well out and about. I'm slightly reducing my LAT, and letting her make decisions herself (with maybe an "its okay" thrown in to guide her). She has made some really great decisions. For example, at agility, two staffy crosses were being a bit bioustrous playing with their owner. Lucy was on leash, held by Mr Cosmolo while I worked Fergs. Rather than react negatively, she moved to the end of the leash, furthest away from the staffys in a really nice, calm manner. She did this a few times. So she is learning to avoid trouble rather than arking up.

We went back to agility for a session again last week and Georgie (Cosmolo's large bull arab girl) was in a drop. Lucy was so excited to see Cosmolo she was doing a full body wag and dance. Very cute. Georgie stayed in her drop but did a commando crawl over to Lucy to say hello. Lucy bounced over to her, gave her a nice greeting, and bounced on over back to me (in my head she was squealling "that's my friend Georgie!"). Even better, when we started to work she ignored Cosmolo's dogs and worked really well, although this is something she normally does - great little worker!

She is getting more territorial at home and it is something that I plan to work on this year. One small step at a time.

I have been working really hard on getting Zig to ignore other dogs and the last couple of months he hasn't been doing to badly with it.

Our leave it command on a walk was pretty successful in getting him to not try to run directly at another dog he saw. He would look and I would say leave it - he would look but not walk toward the other dog.

When we first started he would pull on lead, scream and carry on like a dog totally out of control if he couldn't get to the other dog sometimes.

It was quite embarrassing to be honest. But our squeaky tennis ball as a reward for the leave it command worked a treat. Now we are just down to the command without the ball as reward. So that has to be progress.

Thanks for the advice. I think we are going to look at obedience training instead of going back to our usual trainer.

[hankdog]

Staffyluv we started clicker training when Jake was being really off planet. Gives you something rewarding and fun to do at home. I always thought Jake was not too smart but he got clicker training very quickly. It also gave me a way of marking a look and somedays I don't use his training stuff but get the clicker and treats out and mark the first thing he looks at. Changing direction was of limited success for me and Vicki also told me to wait at least ten seconds if you stop when walking, I now wAit ten seconds but we only move off once he's given me a direct eye contact look. Brenda Aloff has a good training program for getting engagement and she outlines a step by step program. Good luck I hope this is just a little dip in the road.

[Staffyluv]

The hardest part about training with Zig is he has no interest in food at all.

He doesn't like any treats, cheese, cabanossi, turkey - anything..

He tends to take it sometimes but just spits it back out again.

A squeaky ball is about the only thing that gets his attention. Sadly, most people at training don't like you using this as it distracts their dogs as well (I completely understand this and that is why I have done private training and at home training).

The problem I have is he is so easily distracted and once he is, that is the end of it most times.

I try and block him (putting myself between him and what has his attention) and sometimes that works.

Walking in the opposite direction works as well.

We did start with clicker training but as there is no reward that he was interested in, (after the click), it made it hard. Because you click and treat.

He was doing so well and has been for ages.

He is nearly 2 years old (at the end of March) and I have to be honest, some days he frustrates the hell out of me.

I know I shouldn't compare but he is so much harder to work with than my old stafford was.

I just keep telling myself that he had no training whatsoever when we got him and he was at least 6 months old.

Losing the chance to learn basic stuff before 6 months old must have some effect on him..

I am looking at a few different training clubs.

[Cosmolo]

Staffyluv what does he get fed for his regular meals?

[hankdog]

Not food motivated would be a big problem. Not sure but maybe two is the equivalent of dog teenager, grit your teeth and hang in there.

[Staffyluv]

Staffyluv what does he get fed for his regular meals?

He has a chook carcass (or brisket bone or lamb ribs) in the morning and gets some raw kangaroo of a night but he has not been eating that for the last few weeks.

He always has about half a cup of kibble there a day as well but again, doesn't eat it.

He will take brisket bones or lamb ribs as well, he loves them but

It seems that the chook carcass (or raw bones) is more than enough food for him.

He doesn't even look for food.

If I am going out for most of the day, I will freeze him a kong that has his half cup of kibble with about a tablespoon of cottage cheese and he will always eat that while I am gone.

ETA I have tried just about everything I can think of. Sometimes he will take one or two bits of something but then he is to interested.

Even putting something right at his nose, he will just ignore it.

At training I used turkey and cheese for a few weeks and it was working but now he won't even look at it. We also tried ham in place of the turkey and that only worked for about half a lesson.

I have tried bits of raw chook and different types of mince meat and he won't take it.

I don't know what has happened with him. Nothing has changed that I can think of apart from the fact that he doesn't get the dog to dog interaction that he used to get.

I used to take him to the leash free park and let him have a good old run and play but as soon as I noticed him being to over the top I would pack him up and take him home. We still see plenty of dogs and he still gets to say hi and have a play bow etc, just not at the over the top level of excitement that he seems to love.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Staffyluv

[Staffyluv]

I tried cooking him some mince, I have offered him cook steak before.

He might take one or two nibbles but that's it.

He used to get barf but went totally off it.

I have offered him just kibble but again he has no real interest in it.

He is not underweight at all and at 27kg he could probably lose a kilo to be at peak weight.

He is quite fit and healthy in himself and has plenty of energy..

I am at a bit of a loss with him and hoping it is just a phase and he will slip back into his old self any day now.

I think more formal training for him and I will be good for us.

Maybe I am not as vigilant with his training as I have been in the past. Taking for granted that he knows what I want.

He is a big, strong dog and like all of them, if given an inch he will take it an dog for a bit more.

I am going to be more strict and not let him get away with anything.

[Staffyluv]

OK, he was an angel this morning.

Did everything that was asked of him, didn't pull on lead. His recall was good..

He was the dog I want to take for a walk again

He came home and had 3 lamb ribs for breakfast and now is sound asleep.

I have no idea what I am doing anymore!

[hankdog]

Great, well done Staffyluv. I feel like I lurch along in dog fog most days but every now and again the little breakthroughs shine a light in there. 27 kg is big and these bull breeds seem to be so strong and really do some serious pulling. I tried barf on my bullhoover and it is the only food he will not touch, triangle of temptation became triangle of disdain,

Edited January 29, 2013 by hankdog

[corvus]

It's worthwhile IMO to get a dog into the habit of working for food. It gets easier once they are used to it. For example, I've started dogs on really good stuff, like boiled hearts, and once they are used to the idea they can earn it and want it I start throwing in other treats. Currently my dogs will work for pretty much any food. Kibble, canned fruit, chopped veggies... It took me much longer to get my wild hare working for food. As a grazing species, they aren't that concerned with obtaining food. The grass doesn't go anywhere. There's no hurry. My hare certainly left eating until when he was completely relaxed and felt safe. It took a few months, but eventually I had him working pretty reliably for rabbit pellets. Had to start with fresh strawberries and blueberries, though. I'm still hunting for something my doves like more than their regular seed. But they seem happy to work for their seed most of the time anyway. At first they'd only do it if they were hungry, but now they aren't so fussy. They seem to like the training for its own sake. I figure if we can get animals like hares and doves working for food, we should be able to get most dogs working for food as long as they don't have some kind of digestive issue. I think I wrote a blog post on how to get animals working for food one time when I was still blogging if you're interested. I think the most important thing is to take care of their emotional state first. If they are wound up or stressed it's hard to get them to eat. If they are not wound up or stressed and they still won't eat, try some training with good food at meal times. If they still won't work for it, it's probably fair to say they can stand to have their food intake cut back a little. I haven't intentionally used fasting to get any of my animals working for food, but I did dole it out in small portions so they were getting hungry when I brought them food.

[Staffyluv]

Great, well done Staffyluv. I feel like I lurch along in dog fog most days but every now and again the little breakthroughs shine a light in there. 27 kg is big and these bull breeds seem to be so strong and really do some serious pulling. I tried barf on my bullhoover and it is the only food he will not touch, triangle of temptation became triangle of disdain,

Actually HD, I didn't do anything that I haven't done previously - I have no idea why he was good today

Yep, he is a big strong boy and that is the reason he needs to learn to be such a good boy ALL the time.

I don't want to be one of those dog owners who doesn't have control of their dog. I want him to be a good example of staffy cross/pound mutt because too many of them are not good examples.

This is really important to me - that I do the best I can for him.

Corvus, I think I have mentioned before - he shows no interest in food when out and there is distraction.

At home he is happy to train with treats but as soon as there is distraction, I lose him completely - I can hold anything from choc treats, cheese, BBQ, kibble, ham under his nose and he does not even acknowledge it is there.

I can drop the whole treat bag of treats on the ground (empty it) and he walks over the top of it to try to see what is going on around him.

I have not fed him at night or given him breakfast (so he is hungry) and all we got out of him was about 2 minutes of being able to treat him, then he couldn't have cared less what we had.

His fave food is RMBs.

He won't eat offal at all and most foods he will try one or two pieces and then he leaves it.

He will taste things and then leave it.

I have simply given up trying to train with food with Zig because it doesn't work.

I think it was you or Cos that suggested not feeding him dinner or breaky before training and then dumping a heap of food on the ground - I tried that and he got out of the car, sniffed it and stepped over the food because there were other dogs at the park.

I have sent off an email to the local dog training club and hopefully can get him into the next round of classes.

I think it will benefit both of us..

It is frustrating as hell because I see all these other dogs so entranced in their owners and the treat in front of their nose and all Zig wants is to get to the dog that is ignoring him.. (we need a hair pulling out emotion).

But again, today he was great - walked beside me, no pulling and we had a nice walk.

[megan_]

How smelly is your food staffyluv? I agree with Corvus that working for food can be important because you can use it as both an active (get him hyped up) or passive (get him to calm down) reward. Toys tend to be active only and there are times when that isn't appropriate.

Can you just not feed him at all for 24 hours, or even more? I don't know about big dogs but the amount of food you described him getting seems enormous to me . Could you try cutting it down a lot? If he isn't used to "working" for his food then it is going to take some time to get him used to this (why work when I can get a bowl of food for free at the end of the day?) and he'll need to be hungry.

I dog-sat my cousin's dogs over the break and they were very unresponsive to doing anything (even sitting) for food because they were used to getting everything for nothing. It was only after 4 days that I managed to get something out of them. The std schnauzer would just walk away, but she wolfs down her food - it was just that the whole concept was foreign to her.

I think it is Cos who has said that every dog - bar a very ill one - is food motivated. Dogs need food to live and they know it.