Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[Two Best Dogs!]

I'm dog sitting, and Thistle's pretty excited about it. Too excited even, she's being the most obnoxiously submissive I have ever seen her. Which was good when the owners were over for dinner (the first time she has been EXCITED over seeing a man in the house! Went the doggie grin, full wags and hand licks).

However now that they're gone she's really bothering poor old cookie with her sheer obnoxiousness. Mostly licking her face over and over while Cookie turns her head away or moves away. Not a big issue, yet.

They get mandatory breaks from each other and keeping separate when i'm not around. Sometimes I crate her if she's too excited until she calms (yup that far in our crate training!). I have been walking between the two and shoving thistle away when she starts the obnoxious face licks up and she'll calm down after a few minutes of it. Rewarding good calm behaviour but don't think it's clicked I want her calm with cookie.

The dog walks are fine, this seems to be purely an "in and around the house with cookie" thing.

It really is just plain obnoxious and cookie, while tolerating, plainly does not appreciate it.

Suggestions?

(

. Apologies I thought I recorded more but must have knocked the button or something. I interrupted two more times and she backed off to sniff the grass which was good)

PS a good walk and park run has stopped it a bit and I am hoping it's a bit of a "new dog in house" thing.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Thistle the dog

[Simply Grand]

Yes, looks like excitement in an appeasing though annoying sort of way to me. Has she settled down at all? I would think if you keep interrupting Thistle she will get the message, and hopefully the novelty will wear off.

If she's really not giving up could you try tethering Thistle, either to you or to a fixed point? Then she can be around but Cookie can control the level of contact.

[Two Best Dogs!]

She's uh, calmer. I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't some kind of passive aggressive body block thing as she only does it when I'm present or patting cookie :laugh: I let them outside together then went inside to watch through the curtain. It was all lovely calm sniffing with a round of tentative wrestling until I came back out then it's the licking cookie away from me :laugh: i'm on to you thistle, calm down

Been prempting it as much as I can. She gets attention/treats for walking away from cookie, sitting, dropping, chilling. Everytime I pat cookie, she gets a attention/treat for staying out of the way. Everytime cookie gets a treat, she gets one too.

Seems to be working, her tail is less frantic and I can actually walk about without her being a little frantic whirlwind around me. She's knocking into cookie less (I don't believe for an instant that many butt flying into cookie's face is an accident, not with the booty awareness she's got).

It's interesting, that's for sure.

Edit: spoke to early! She had a go at cookie over the ball (or cookie being excited in close proximity to me). Stopped in less than a second. My bad too much too fast. Keeping everything calm for now. Treats for letting cookie play with the ball. I'm sitting and supervising and they're just standing in the grass thinking.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Thistle the dog

[Simply Grand]

It is interesting! She sounds conflicted, maybe a mix of excited to have another dog around and not totally comfortable with sharing "her" things, including you. And maybe she's not (or hasn't been) confident enough to tell Cookie off so like you say, she is being a bit passive aggressive and making contact and pushing Cookie around but in a somewhat appeasing way.

[Two Best Dogs!]

I think I pushed things and cookie getting worked up got her worked up I will stick to walks and off lead sniffs, and hopefully miss passive aggressive worrywort will feel better about the visitor (and sharing me) in time.

(Worse comes to worse it's only until Monday evening, i took the time off)

Edited December 30, 2016 by Thistle the dog

[corvus]

She's uh, calmer. I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't some kind of passive aggressive body block thing as she only does it when I'm present or patting cookie :laugh: I let them outside together then went inside to watch through the curtain. It was all lovely calm sniffing with a round of tentative wrestling until I came back out then it's the licking cookie away from me :laugh: i'm on to you thistle, calm down

It's an ongoing issue with my youngest, Kestrel. She is wee little, and she does it most to our oldest, biggest dog. She pretty much tries to lick between his teeth. It took a while for me to figure it out, because she did it all the time with him at first, and it looked like intense puppy submission. She had not had much to do with dogs that looked like he does, and she was still a baby. He is a very tolerant dog and put up with it. As their relationship developed, she has been doing it much less, but it has become more directed. If he tries to approach me when I'm in bed or on the couch and Kestrel is cuddling, she will try to lick his tonsils. Occasionally she will snap at him and then try to lick his tonsils. I assume because she quite likes him and is conflicted about it all. He has never shown any aggression towards her no matter what she does, and she loves to wrestle with him. If it's Erik, though, who has been aggressive towards her, she just snaps at him. He would not tolerate that licking behaviour anyway. Lately, she has reduced her snapping (because it doesn't work) and instead tries to climb into my mouth (yay!). The more often Erik comes up for a cuddle in an evening, the more needy she gets for my attention. She also does it when my partner gets home from work and he doesn't greet her enough. All the dogs think he doesn't greet them enough. She can get frantic to the point where I have to stop what I'm doing because she apparently needs my hands on her at all times. So, I'm pretty sure what is going on is a blocking strategy for a bigger dog she's not as confident with/social displacement behaviour when she's not getting her way. Yet to find a solution, really. I usually try to reassure her and if another dog is present, move her so my body is between them and my arm around her. If I'm attending to her and there's a little distance, she seems better able to cope, but when the other dog leaves, she will take whatever space they had and then she fusses as if I owe her twice as much attention as I gave the other dog. She is a funny creature.

[Two Best Dogs!]

It is very odd behaviour and I agree, it's coming across as a very nervous insecure action where she doesn't actually want to cause conflict and I'm the "trigger".

She is getting better though. I'm doing lots of calm behaviour rewarding. Trying to avoid commands except where she's super excited and can't think. Rest of time I do something with cookie she gets attention too so cookie attention = attention for her. Easier when I approach cookie but she's getting the hang of staying calm and not shouldering in between when cookie approaches me. Most rewards have been attention and pats.

Tomorrow's cookies last day with us so I'll take a comparison video.

Good thing cookie is a super calm and chill dog

Thistle has been offering so many great heels ???? But it's the kind of attention seeking for wrong reason so I'm ignoring them in favour of calm sits.

They have had some tentative wrestling. I think she's just out of practice sharing me and needs time to adjust. Shame cookie goes home soon.

[Two Best Dogs!]

I forgot to get the final comparison video. I was just so tired and I think so was thistle because she walked right past cookie to her bed ????

But by last day morning she's doing more token licks and a lot less body blocking. Will be something to work on, hopefully it's a cookie specific thing.

We were tired because yesterday she had a play date down at kcc with a few agility people. It was going pretty well, she was a bit in the face of the others dogs but not AS in the face as usual. Lots of curves, appropriate butt sniffing etc. a good girl. She's finally pulling up as she runs over instead of slamming into them or their personal space!

At one moment she got a bit something(?) with the pug, trying to make him run I think but we interrupted that. She was having a great time playing chasies with a big BC. I think it's the first full game of chasies she's had, most dogs can't keep up or go all out. Anyway, turns out she's a nipper so that tipped into a fight about 30 mins in to the chasies. The bc is okay looks like she just got fur. Thistle has a karma graze on her chin. I'm awfully embarrassed and bummed out but probably the safest way to find out that tidbit about her - at the kcc surrounded by experienced trainers. They were all very nice and I've got some ideas to manage and prevent in the future so she can have safe slightly calmer chasies. Just glad it wasn't the pug! But they all seemed to think not that big a deal so thinking I'm just fretting needlessly over it

She raced a couple of greys along the fence line too. Going to get a muzzle like theirs to prevent over excited chase nips in the future.

The people were super nice though. and their dogs were cool

Edited January 2, 2017 by Thistle the dog

[Papillon Kisses]

Too good not to share!! 

 

 

[Simply Grand]

Hahaha so true!

[Taliecat]

We've just moved house this weekend and poor Dozer hasn't been handling the new place very well..

 

We're on a corner block that's raised so you can see the street level out of the lounge room windows and there's a section of the fence that's hurricane fencing (5ft) instead of 7 foot wooden fence.

 

He's doing remarkably well with seeing other dogs waking past on leash, but roaming dogs and cats are a major problem.

 

Dozer went through our bedroom fly screen last night because a big cat walked past and today he's super stressed out.

 

We got him a couple of big chews and he's starting to relax a bit but we desperately need to get static window film like Thistle has to block his view inside and more solid bamboo screens for the hurricane fencing .

 

I've luckily just gotten a job today (yaaay) so I'll also be getting him a dap defused or something similar.

 

Poor dude has just been so stressed, and we're feeling it too with being on constant guard duty in keeping him away from the shorter sections of the fence.

[Papillon Kisses]

Eeep! Poor Dozer. Has he settled down at all over the past few days? With Malcolm even just re-arranging furniture results in an anxiety spike so this must be intense!

 

Do you have curtains/blinds you could keep down or could you put up a towel or sheet while you sort out the fence and windows?

 

Congrats on your new job!

 

Edit: @Taliecat I've sent you a PM.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Papillon Kisses

[Taliecat]

Thanks PK, I worked my first shift overnight and thought I was shocking (it's been 8 years since I last was at maccas) but they've asked me to come back in for a 10hr overnight tonight so I can't have gone too badly.

 

At the moment Dozer is certainly getting better, as he now understands he's not allowed to peak out windows and spends most of his time on the couch directly under the air-conditioning. But I'll be cutting up an old sheet and somehow attach it to the bottom windows in the lounge.

 

He has also made friends with the dogs next door through the wooden fence, so no fence fighting on that side .

 

He also made friends with the plumber that came yesterday, he didn't even notice him for the first three hours until he met him and it was instant best friends.

 

The plumber was a dog breeder with 30 dogs, so that may have been a big factor

 

@Papillon Kisses I'll check,read and rely to that PM when I get home 

 

Edited February 11, 2017 by Taliecat

[Papillon Kisses]

No worries, I just know that sometimes PMs can go missing in full message boxes!

 

Fantastic to hear that Dozer is settling in. And no fence fighting, wow! 

[Papillon Kisses]

I confess that I'm getting a bit fed up and weary. The heat probably doesn't help I know.

 

Apart from the odd good day, Mal's anxiety has been worsening. Apart from my arms his safe places are no longer safe. Nights are awful. He's barking more and set off by the slightest thing and can't settle.

 

Many tears have been shed.

 

I just want my little man to feel better, you know? And to be able to do simple things like open the windows to let in a cool breeze when the heat is oppressive, cook dinner and do the laundry. Last night I could only prep/cook while holding him in my arms with his calming cap on because Mr PK wasn't home to tag team. And hoping beyond hope that the smoke alarm wouldn't go off (we think we'll take out the batteries and rely on upstairs).

 

I've been thinking about getting a trainer in for additional help but I don't know how much that would help given that I think it's mostly a medication/medical issue. I'm a shit trainer but I do think I make good progress when he's actually in the headspace to learn. It's quite startling the difference between training a sick dog and a slightly healthier one. 

 

He does have quality of life mainly from eating (lol) and nose work but f me it's exhausting. So exhausting. I'm constantly putting out spot fires.

 

I feel so sad for him. And tired.  

Edited February 12, 2017 by Papillon Kisses

[Simply Grand]

I feel for you PK, I know how exhausting it is to not be able to just do normal things around the house because you have to factor in the dog/s. And you've been doing it a lot longer than i have

 

Did he have a med change a while back? Could that be making it worse, like what happened with Justice?

 

Tbh I'm not sure that there is a lot of training you could do to help him at the moment, given that his anxiety is so generalised

[Papillon Kisses]

Yes we added in Amitriptyline early December after three other failed med trials. I'm not sure whether it's making him worse as he was starting to go downhill before that, but it certainly doesn't seem to be making him any better. I feel like after two months we should have an indication.

 

The only thing that helped, initially, was Prozac. I think it probably needs to be upped. He's on a 'half' dose as it is because the full dose makes him worse, but he's gained 400g (10% bw) which I'm struggling to get off him.

[Two Best Dogs!]

Hello all. Radio silence means we're into a good routine. A recent study has come out that's interesting!

 

“Reactive Dogs and Exercise: Can modifying the daily exercise regime improve behaviour?”

 

LINK

 

Simple summary of the key findings by "Wheres your Sit" a dog training blog

 

 

Quote

 

The dogs in the study were sent on a “doggie” vacation where exercise was significantly reduced. The owners of the dogs were nervous of this at first given that many of the dogs that participated were also described as hyper dogs that required great amounts of exercise.

What was found instead was that with reduced physical exercise (off leash running, long walks, playtime with other dogs, ball and disc play, etc.) and increased soothing touch and mental games the dogs improved significantly in only 6 days! The study goes on to cite work that includes giving dogs a drastic change for a month to see truly improved results in reactivity.

This is important for owners of dogs with arousal and reactivity issues on many fronts as simply tiring the dog out physically isn’t going to get you the results you want.

Here’s a great list of activities you can do with your own dog when reducing high impact or lengthy activity in order to decrease stress in your dog:

• Sniff games inside and outside
• Tracking (this is a great sport that Where’s Your Sit offers classes for and is suitable for reactive dogs as we don’t expose the dogs to one another)
• Trick training
• Shaping games with a clicker (can also result in your dog knowing even more tricks!)
• Soothing massage and touch
• Short on leash walks well away from other dogs, recommended 15-20 min per day and allowing your dog to do a significant amount of sniffing on these outings
• Interactive feeding and puzzle games

Reactivity and overall stress and anxiety are closely linked. It’s important that your dog is allowed to calm down and “reset” after an incident where they reacted or were startled or injured by another dog.

 

These same calming activities can also be used with over excited or hyper dogs that don’t struggle with reactivity.

 

 

I've noticed dog classes where she gets an opportunity to practice calm sniffing, she is much calmer and better able to focus. I wonder if breeds inclined to sniff are more likely to be calmer overall because of such an instinct for a calming activity like sniffing?

 

She getting better at noseworks We have a practical class coming up soon.

 

 

[Papillon Kisses]

Have you seen this, Thistle?

http://domorewithyourdog.com/trickdog/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=146

[Two Best Dogs!]

Yup! I've got the 101 book on the off chance I ever feel like attempting to get the titles :P I've already worked out we could ATD and possibly get the ETD...

 

Currently I am teaching her to rebound off me. As she does everything with enthusiasm and power...it's hurting me a lot more than her lol. Trying to get her to aim for my hips, NOT my stomach.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Thistle the dog