Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[JulesP]

Oh boy do I want to be in the head trainers class. Looks to be a very compatible flexible training style for us! All that stands in the way of it is stand)

This bugs me. Is the same at my school. You don't pass that and you just don't pass and can't go on to do the other fun stuff. Happened to a friend of mine that wanted to do agility.

[Papillon Kisses]

When I first got Malcolm I wanted to do dogs sports with him as he's an athletic little dog (more so when he was younger), but that flew out of the window when I learnt you had to pass the club's *advanced* level obedience classes.... and I had a dog that shut down completely in in basic small group classes. So it wasn't for him, but it always came across to me as very snobbish. I understand having a certain level of basic training, but it was like they only let the perfect dogs have any fun.

I'm very excited to be starting Nosework classes in July!! In Nosework classes, dogs of ALL abilities are accepted and the dogs are all kept separate to each other if needed and brought in one at a time to the room so there is NO interaction with other dogs and the environment isn't loud and chaotic. The act of sniffing works as an anxiolytic (they can't sniff and worry at the same time or something) and other parts of the environment can be modified too, so it's perfect for dog-reactive dogs, anxious dogs, elderly or disabled dogs... basically any dog that has a nose.

http://scentsabilitiesnw.com/blog/why-nosework-works.html

[Scottsmum]

I'm very excited to be starting Nosework classes in July!! In Nosework classes, dogs of ALL abilities are accepted and the dogs are all kept separate to each other if needed and brought in one at a time to the room so there is NO interaction with other dogs and the environment isn't loud and chaotic. The act of sniffing works as an anxiolytic (they can't sniff and worry at the same time or something) and other parts of the environment can be modified too, so it's perfect for dog-reactive dogs, anxious dogs, elderly or disabled dogs... basically any dog that has a nose.

http://scentsabilitiesnw.com/blog/why-nosework-works.html

I'll try to not go too off topic but is that with K9 Nose time? If so - you'll have a blast and are in 1000% the most capable hands in the entire world :) Seriously amazing group of trainers.

[JulesP]

It's really hard when you can't do what you want to do with your dog but I actually agree with dogs who do agility having to have passed a high level of obedience. You've got lots of dogs present and dogs running off leash in a high state of arousal, including dogs who aren't dog friendly, and I just don't think you can afford to have a dog who can't cope or who might break mid run and take off towards another dog.

In your experience how has a stand for exam helped your agility performance?

[Willem]

It's really hard when you can't do what you want to do with your dog but I actually agree with dogs who do agility having to have passed a high level of obedience. You've got lots of dogs present and dogs running off leash in a high state of arousal, including dogs who aren't dog friendly, and I just don't think you can afford to have a dog who can't cope or who might break mid run and take off towards another dog.

In your experience how has a stand for exam helped your agility performance?

...I assume it is more the particular underlying cause that lead to failing the exam that would - in most(?) cases - lead also to other issues during the normal agility training. Saying this, in our club they allowed joining the agility beginner group without advanced obedience qualification as long as the dog has a certain age (10 month as far as I remember) and is not reactive. Obviously it helps a lot if the dog has a somehow stable sit and a good recall....

[Papillon Kisses]

I probably didn't explain myself well enough.

Because Malcolm shut down AND because of the degree of qualifications required, I didn't pursue it. Any sort of class didn't seem to be for him. And that's ok, you work with and love the dog that you have. We do our own training and other fun stuff together. :)

Speaking generally though, as I think Jules also is, I don't see why just basic obedience isn't ok, doing agility it with a dog who can sit, has recall, isn't going to go bolting mid run and attack other dogs, in a class where other dogs aren't going to attack him. Which sounds like what Willem's club did.

That may have previously been doable for Mal for various reasons, or it may not have been. It certainly wouldn't be doable now. But I wasn't going to put him through a gazillion obedience classes just to find out.

I hope this clears it up. :)

[Papillon Kisses]

I'm very excited to be starting Nosework classes in July!! In Nosework classes, dogs of ALL abilities are accepted and the dogs are all kept separate to each other if needed and brought in one at a time to the room so there is NO interaction with other dogs and the environment isn't loud and chaotic. The act of sniffing works as an anxiolytic (they can't sniff and worry at the same time or something) and other parts of the environment can be modified too, so it's perfect for dog-reactive dogs, anxious dogs, elderly or disabled dogs... basically any dog that has a nose.

http://scentsabilitiesnw.com/blog/why-nosework-works.html

I'll try to not go too off topic but is that with K9 Nose time? If so - you'll have a blast and are in 1000% the most capable hands in the entire world :) Seriously amazing group of trainers.

There's a few more places doing it in Sydney now! I'm interested in going to The Dog Project in Wollongong. Positive Paws in Campbelltown also run classes. K9 Nose Time at Castle Hill are too far out of the way for me. :)

[ness]

I also don't agree you need a formal obedience trained dog to succeed in agility. There are plenty of top agility dogs who would have no idea of a stand for exam. The judge doesn't get close in agility so its quite possible to train a dog for agility who is nervy of strangers. I know Kenz was quite able to get around an agility course before she could come close to having a stranger actually touch her.

[Willem]

I also don't agree you need a formal obedience trained dog to succeed in agility. There are plenty of top agility dogs who would have no idea of a stand for exam. The judge doesn't get close in agility so its quite possible to train a dog for agility who is nervy of strangers. I know Kenz was quite able to get around an agility course before she could come close to having a stranger actually touch her.

...the judge?...I thought that most dogs and owners require some training before they are ready to compete :) and during the training there are always other dogs around, sometimes 5 dogs (with the owners) are working on different stations / sections of the course, hence there can be some kind of interference. For me the most important question would be whether the dog will still have fun during the training, or whether he is too nervous or has other conditions causing him (and the owner) too much stress, thus compromising his focus on the obstacles. Agility should be fun for all dogs and owners during the training.

ETA: considering the topic 'Exercising Reactive Dog Thread' I hope this is not too off-topic; furthermore I believe that agility training isn't an exercise that would suit a lot of reactive dogs at the start of their training.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Willem

[ness]

Depends where you train - I hate group sessions even for my perfectly rock solid new girl. We do lots of foundation stuff at the local park where there is nobody or at home. Agility is not obedience and I know plenty of timid dogs competing in agility.

Edited May 9, 2016 by ness

[Willem]

Depends where you train - I hate group sessions even for my perfectly rock solid new girl. We do lots of foundation stuff at the local park where there is nobody or at home. Agility is not obedience and I know plenty of timid dogs competing in agility.

...for me group training, other dogs and owners, are part of the training. At home in my backyard without distractions I know I have a perfect dog :D ...

[Papillon Kisses]

What Ness said. But also, not all people or dogs are interested in competing. Some just want to have some fun.

[Scottsmum]

I'm very excited to be starting Nosework classes in July!! In Nosework classes, dogs of ALL abilities are accepted and the dogs are all kept separate to each other if needed and brought in one at a time to the room so there is NO interaction with other dogs and the environment isn't loud and chaotic. The act of sniffing works as an anxiolytic (they can't sniff and worry at the same time or something) and other parts of the environment can be modified too, so it's perfect for dog-reactive dogs, anxious dogs, elderly or disabled dogs... basically any dog that has a nose.

http://scentsabilitiesnw.com/blog/why-nosework-works.html

I'll try to not go too off topic but is that with K9 Nose time? If so - you'll have a blast and are in 1000% the most capable hands in the entire world :) Seriously amazing group of trainers.

There's a few more places doing it in Sydney now! I'm interested in going to The Dog Project in Wollongong. Positive Paws in Campbelltown also run classes. K9 Nose Time at Castle Hill are too far out of the way for me. :)

Cool cool. Enjoy. We both loved it. I miss it a lot.

[Willem]

What Ness said. But also, not all people or dogs are interested in competing. Some just want to have some fun.

the fun factor can be heavily compromised if you have a reactive dog trying to do agility as - conversely to other training / dog sports - it will require a lot of off-leash training. A reactive dog, nervous and easily distracted and then off-leash...seems to be a not such a good recipe for me. If I would own a reactive dog I would aim for exercises that would require less off-leash work.

[Papillon Kisses]

That's not always the case. It depends why the dog is reactive and what it is reactive to.

[Willem]

That's not always the case. It depends why the dog is reactive and what it is reactive to.

off course...another idea (referring to the thread title): if you are member of a club that has agility equipment you could ask to setup a group that supports reactive dogs with special agility equipment arrangements considering:

a) bigger distances between obstacles, and

b) equipment that allows using the lead (no tunnels, no tyre, reduced jumps etc...)

such a setup would still challenge the dogs, but would allow to maintain the control via the leash...I could imagine that could be an interesting and beneficial exercise for reactive dogs...

[Two Best Dogs!]

If I make it to advance, thistle will be doing offlead work around other dogs and people. Something I'm only comfortable in the obedience class environment and because I know the other dogs have as solid obedience and the trainers are there to help if something goes wrong. Some in the class are DA but thistle is the only one reactive to humans I think. Or at least, the most noticeable.

And in the class my understanding is sometimes dogs are in position and people will switch places and be moving around so thistle needs to be able to hold her position while ppl are in close proximity and I am not. She can do this for stand and drop while I was 5m away. But since she can't hold that stand in class...

Currently in lvl 3 we do a lot of work on long lines and at a distance. So the midway point to offlead. but obviously we have had to work up to this. I think even average dogs you can't jump straight to offlead with.

Personally I don't think I would do formal obedience or agility. Not yet anyway, 50% thistle but been really turned off by the culture around these. Very unwelcoming to new ppl, even if I am just watching to learn... But I've considered rally o, our class gives introductory sessions and it was fun. Seems less exclusionary, flexible and open to "just for fun" people. I'm really hanging out for nose work but that's only advanced... Just fun activities to do with thistle when we've got most of the tough bits smoothed out ;) but it would depend on the dog, I think even though reactive eventually we can teach her to just ignore other ppl and dogs in majority of situations. Which most of these need.

And I intend to attend lure coursing in September :) and I've been looking into weight pulling. Want to try a little bit of everything to see what she enjoys the most.

There was someone in dol who taught a scared dog stand for exam...I think it was for showing? It's like the first and only result for "scared dog stand for exam" in Google. I refer to that thread every few months to refresh myself on ideas.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Thistle the dog

[Willem]

might be a little bit off-topic: are there agreed standards for obedience classes / levels or does every club / dog school develop own criteria?...in our club wrt obedience they offer:

1. Beginners: focus is on socialisation, how does dog (and owner) respond to other dogs etc.
   
2. Class 1: basic obedience (sit, drop)...all on-leash with occasional leash-outs at the end of the training.
   
3. Class 2: more serious, more off-leash work ...heel with a lot of passing dogs and owners, longer stays (sit and drop), recalls...stand exam (it seems it doesn't have to be perfect or 100%).
   
4. Class 3: refining stand exam, a lot of off-leash work, even longer stays - greater distance, more complex passing / weaving around dogs and people...recalls...recalls...
   

in agility it is

1. Bronze / Beginner: basic handling skills, basic jumps, tunnels...a lot of training with wobbling boards, low tables - most of it can be done with leash;
   
2. Silver: introduction of weavers (only 4), chute, ...more jumps incl. tire jump and more complicated jump arrangements, low dog walk...more off-leash work;
   
3. Gold:...all the other stuff...
   

is this similar to other clubs / schools?

wrt 'reactive dogs': I guess it becomes challenging when the focus on passing exercises and off-leash work increases?

Eta:...all the instructors I had through the agility and obedience classes so far did and do a great job!

Edited May 10, 2016 by Willem

[Willem]

wrt graduating to the next class: for obedience we don't have fixed 'exam days' - if the instructor believes that you / your dog ticks all the required criteria he/she will send you to the next class. I believe this is a pretty good system - you don't fail a test, but you / your dogs gets rewarded for learning / progress. Sometimes I could recognize that the instructor focused a little bit on me and my dog, so I new he / she checked us out whether we were ready for the next level. Conversely for agility there is a fixed exam for the graduation to the next level, however the tests are not too difficult.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Willem

[Willem]

....because they really only accommodate the needs of reactive or fearful dogs at level one and after that, instead of being in a group with dogs spaced a little more widely from each other and placed at the back where we could access it from the rear of the oval, we are moved to tightly spaced classes that were side by side with half a dozen other classes and near the car park, where pretty much every dog had to walk past us, and it was too overwhelming for Justice....

that's a shame, I'm really for making obedience training mandatory for all dog owners, but then of course the offered training has to address the needs of all dogs, not only the easy-to-train ones. Trigger zones are crucial for any dog and if the need for a bigger distance can't be addressed we (clubs, schools, trainers and the mortal dog owner) are doing something wrong. One dog in our class is muzzled (I assume for a reason), but that didn't hinder our or other participants training. Conversely I believe that 'more challenging dogs' in a class provide also better learning opportunities for my own dog - I don't want to train just with 'decoys', but want to prepare my dog for real world scenarios.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Willem