Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[megan_]

Snook that sounds wonderful. Well done Justice! He is a lucky boy who has an owner who not only realises his issues, but actually works through them.

It is a great thing to see your dog being "normal" and enjoying a simple interaction with another dog.

[megan_]

You met a person doing LAT "in the wild"? How fantastic!

[Tassie]

Yay! Sounds like you and Justice are making huge progress. And the nice thing is that it'll be mostly upwards from here on as you and he gain more confidence. Great stuff! :-)

[Aidan3]

Really cool, Snook! I remember having an experience just like that at the vet surgery with one of my previous dogs. It was then that I figured I was probably on the right track, and I found out later that I definitely was.

[sheena]

Justice and I had another unexpected chance to practise the Look at That game this afternoon when we stopped to pick up his food order from the pet store. A puppy was in there and was growling, lunging or crying most of the time. Justice went on to full alert and was tense and staring at the pup. I kept Justice well away from him but in a place where he could see him and played LAT (thank goodness I had my clicker and a bag full of treats on me for the walk we were going on) and he did brilliantly, looking back at me every time I clicked him for looking at the pup and it only took a few goes before he was nice and relaxed. I thought that was pretty good considering the only other time we've done it was when we were at the opposite end of a park to another dog who wasn't paying Justice any attention anyway. The owner of the pup was right next to the door and didn't move when we were trying to leave so I made sure I was between them and asked Justice to "look" and rewarded him the whole way out of the shop and he didn't even pause to look at the pup even though they must have got as close as within a metre and a half of each other. I'm so proud of him and so glad I decided to change to a trainer who uses this method.

Yep...I can't speak more highly of LAT. It was definately worth all the jeering & critisism I got when I first started using it, from my fellow club members etc. Now I just compare the good manners & successes of my dog to theirs & inwardly smile to myself :) I am so proud of my girl...she just loves to play the game. It sounds like Justice thinks it's pretty cool too

[sheena]

Thanks guys! It really is awesome when you have that moment when you know you're doing the right thing isn't it Aidan? It also really highlighted the difference between LAT and more aversive methods because the puppy was being given corrections with jerks on the collar and Cesar Milan style "tschhhh" really harshly, which did nothing to reduce the pup's reactivity and the pup either looked miserable or stressed and if it did obey a correction, only lasted a very brief while before starting up the same behaviour again. I certainly know which out of our two dogs was the happiest, most relaxed and better behaved which says everything to me since Justice would have been displaying behaviours just as bad as the pup if I'd been pulling on the leash and telling him off as it would have made him more tense and anxious, and I'm betting he would have lunged at the pup on the way out the door as a result. I'm also amazed that both times we've worked on LAT Justice hasn't had his Thundershirt on as they were both unexpected opportunities and he's still responding really well to it.

That's awesome sheena! It must feel so good to know you've been able to help your dog so much. it can't be much fun for reactive dogs, feeling tense and stressed so often.

Do you find the thundershirt much of a help??

[hankdog]

Well done Snook and Justice, I would so have been in tears to see them playing. There must be a few loner dogs on the planet but I believe most dogs want a bit of doggie interaction so he must have been very happy to have a good romp. Hopefully it's onward and upward and he will learn to trust other dogs.

Unfortunately we've had a bit of a shocking week, one of the many "don't worry he's friendly so we let him roam the street" dogs got a hold of my little girl chicken last Tuesday. I was inside, heard the noise and ran out, fell over but Jake ran off barking. The dog must have got a fright and dropped little Lola. 200 stitches and 4 drainage tubes on a little pekin chicken is not a good sight. Anyway I was not in a great dog mood that afternoon so that afternoon when I walked round the corner and came upon 2 spaniels Jake started his nonsense and I yelled at him, strangely enough he shut up...just like that. I have been thinking for about a month that he does understand I don't want him barking but he doesn't feel like listening to me. He seems to have 2 distinct learning phases, understanding what you want and then deciding to do it. I think treats were not enough of an incentive to quit barking but having a stern no seems to be doing the trick...oh well I'm sure he will find a way around it but yesterday we walked behind a very large fluffy dog for about a kilometer and he didn't bark once, a bit of crying and very excited but no flat out barking, really quite pleasant.

Edited August 21, 2012 by hankdog

[BC Crazy]

Snook & Justice. Sound like Justice is improving out of sight which is wonderful. Well done to both of you.

Stella is going loads better with the LAT game as well. She is really amazing me lately, even today we passed 2 people mowing & whipper snipping, a couple of big dogs & 2 noisy pluvers with only

a slight reaction, then I said her name & she looked straight at me, I had her total attention & she just sat calmly waiting for her treat Completely ignoring all those things that

previously she would of gone off her nut about, lunging, growling & snapping at the end of her lead. I am very impressed with her progress. I shed a few tears to myself when I got home

I am also putting her thunder shirt on when she is at home as she flips out, barking & whining at any noises like birds chirping or if she can hear the neighbours are near our boundry fence.

Works a treat for us. Helps her calm down & she even gets some rest at times in the arvo which she certainly wasn't getting before. She was running around frantic most of the time.

It's all small steps but positive ones :)

Edited August 21, 2012 by BC Crazy

[sheena]

Snook & BC Crazy. I still get my arm pulled out of it's socket occasionally when I am not paying attention...usually when I am listening to the instructor at class & some dog runs past out of control. I don't think she will ever become a non-reactive dog, that's just the personality that she is & I will always need to be ready to play LAT wherever we are...but I can live with that, I am so pleased with the results. If I have my clicker in my hand, she is like putty in my fingers not like the mad Tasmanian Devil she used to be :laugh:

[Sayreovi]

Just posting this in here in case people don't check OT

I have for sale the TACT dvd, "training program for dogs that are fearful or reactive towards people"

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2979&ParentCat=685

I've only watched the first dvd so it's in new condition otherwise.

Asking $50 plus postage, please PM if interested as I don't check in here frequently.

[megan_]

Tillers I'll take it if it is still there. I can pick it up at frankston when I start agility with my MS there

[Staff'n'Toller]

I'll be very interested to hear Grisha talk at the APDT conference but I can't agree with that method for fixing Tarzan dogs. Sure, it could potentially help the aggressor, or it could do nothing, or it could make them worse. Just so many opportunities for massive fallout.

Also, there's no way I'd let my own beautiful bomb-proof dogs be a part of that sort of situation, why would I ever subject other dogs to it?! It's totally unethical IMO.

If you need pepper spray or a break stick then your dog has stuff all bite inhibition. Other dog park people certainly DO mind and won't stand for it as far as I can tell. It's a great way to get dog parks closed down too, when park users start making numerous complaints.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Oh, I want to be really clear that Grisha wasn't advocating that method for fixing Tarzan dogs. She said in her BAT book that there was Donaldson had a good explanation of Tarzan dog behaviour in her book 'Fight!' and I assumed this meant it was a good book so I bought it. Grisha advocates using BAT for dogs who fit the Tarzan dog description.

Oh yes, I understand, sorry, I have a copy of fight. But I clumped both into my first paragraph. :laugh:

[Cosmolo]

I have a couple of 'bombproof' dogs. And there's no way i'd ever subject them to anything like that. Sounds like a great way to completely erode a dogs confidence in you.

[Guest Panzer Attack!]

Snook I've got a couple more ebooks on dog aggression and reactivity, I can't remember which ones I've already sent you but let me know if you're interested!

I had a good sesh at obedience yesterday. I followed my heart and ignored what anyone else thought for the first time and it really paid off. Got to class and they were once again doing dog greeting exercises. I made an executive decision to work him a couple meters from the class, just doing simple commands and attempting focus work (I am sooo shit at this lol), and he got calmer and calmer as we went on. Left after 20 minutes and he only barked at one dog on the way to the car :D

Oh and I don't know if I've posted in here before now, so - hello! I'm Emma and I have a very reactive 18 month Papillon named Scooter. During our time at obedience school he's been attacked by two large breed dogs and rushed a few times by offlead dogs while I am walking him on lead. He's also been bitten through a fence in the backyard I'm a complete newb so every day is a challenge! I want him to know he can trust me again...

[megan_]

I'm still going to the club, but not to the classes. I'm working Lucy around the club house with LAT and getting her to do some training there. It is more useful for her and I don't get annoyed at having to do extensive heeling after 2 classes. I then get fergus to do agility at 11.

Lucy is enrolled at agility at franktson starting in 2 weeks rime. She works really well off leash and doesn't ever go looking for trouble. I'll let them know that I don't want other dogs in her face though. I'm really looking forward to it.

I've also looked at southern which has a training philosophy that is much closer to mine (you need focus before you can actually train). Id also like to go back to cosmolo's classes - the problem is fitting it all in!

[Aidan3]

I let one of my old dogs do a lot of teaching, but never, ever knowingly at his expense. My current GSD is quite good at getting the socially inept ones to play. If I thought I would need a bite stick and pepper spray, there is no chance I'd think they were ready.

[Cosmolo]

That's what we do Aidan- we have 2 bombproof dogs, one indifferent dog and two assertive type teaching dogs. They all play a different role in teaching clients dogs but NEVER at their expense. They ignore reactivity really well- because they know nothing bad will happen. I'd hate to change that.

Panzer- you can't be that bad at it if he got better and better, well done. :)

[Guest Panzer Attack!]

Megan I think I saw you!!! Well I saw a Schnauzer with a yellow bandana on but I wasn't sure so didn't come say hi (I would have handed Scooter to Luke first LOL)

Cos - thanks!! I'm trying to figure out how to fit in group classes with you too, esp considering the Tuesday one starts tomorrow, d'oh!

[megan_]

I saw a pap but didn't know if it was you!

Edit; scooter is sooooooo cute

Edited August 27, 2012 by megan_