Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[grumpette]

OMG they are so suited and so identical. Beautiful. Absolutely brilliant. I am totally rapt for the four of you.

[Two Best Dogs!]

Class went fine up until the useless f***ing ~show off~ who kept throwing the ball for her dog to retrieve...by throwing it between the classes and within 5 metres of us all!

She'd throw the ball, then look at the rest of us struggling to calm our dogs while hers ran to it and back. Rinse and repeat. One time as close as 2 metres to this poor DA staffie x who basically shut down.

I have never wanted to punch someone so much. Thistle spent a good 10 minutes over threshold, no matter how I distracted and we even walked off from class to be further away and no doubt missed out on greats of information. Like what to do about piece of shit people who intentionally let their dogs set off other dogs by running back and forth in close proximity.

I'm not the only one upset, other dog owners and even some of the trainers were irritated. But the owner herself was staying far away from us so none of us could tell her off.

Goes to show there's not much point having a great dog if the owner of it is a piece of disrespectful shit. I'm so f***ing mad.

There was a whole f***ing half oval available up the other end.

But here's some good run downs. Thistle sniffed and said hello to a new dog (big lab? or maybe a goldie with short hair? or a goldie x lab?), she ignored the schnauzer playing with his toy (so many play growls), said hello to her usual friends, voluntarily asked P (a big tall man) to pat her, met two new upcoming trainers, didn't freak out from the stall collapsing, was absolutely stella on her heel/return to side and she did try awfully hard to obey commands/calm down at the first few runs of that dog past. Didn't get to practice recall on account of asshole owner. Who I really want to punch, and I like to think I'm not usually violent? But in this case, really f***ing want to punch.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Thistle the dog

[Two Best Dogs!]

If she's there next week I'm probably going to yell some things, or at least a one fingered gesture. She was definitely intentionally being a dick, was keeping her personal distance from all of us, out of shouting distance, but was using one of those ball throwing sticks to send her BC between us all and through the agility equipment.

Funny enough, once classes were ended and people were dispersing she leashed her dog and left quick smart.

The rest of the class was reassuring me Thistle's doing well, so in retrospect I guess they could see how upset I was, but I was too frustrated/upset at the time to appreciate it. It is very unfair to expect Thistle to stay calm when a dog and ball are flying back so close and so many times! Ruining an otherwise perfectly fine morning

Once the lady moved off, Thistle was able to calm down pretty quickly to calmly say hello to her second best friend at least (Didi being the first). Love that little kelpie x

[Willem]

despite the risk of getting told off again like in so many other threads, here my opposing thoughts (I will leave it with this one post, promised :) ):

...was the ball plus the other dog a real danger?...like an approaching car?...or a running chain saw?...the ball and the dog might have well triggered a reaction in your dog - but could it be also a problem how you respond to such situations?...while the ball and the other dog triggered this unwanted 'state of mind' in your dog, by your response (becoming very upset about this other lady, frustrated and fearful) in a way you are reinforcing your dog's behaviour: seeing you changing your mood as a response to this other dog respectively ball - that's similar to telling your dog oh yes, this is not a good situation, that's dangerous...better to worry...

You said 'Once the lady moved off, Thistle was able to calm down pretty quickly...' ...maybe your dog calmed down quickly because she saw you suddenly relaxing?...which told her the danger is gone for now?

You have a very strong bond to your dog - if Thistle senses that your mood changes from balanced to worried what do you think it triggers in your dog?

Edited February 1, 2016 by Willem

[Simply Grand]

Agree Snook, well said.

I was just picturing the situation in my mind, what a bizarre thing for anyone to do, to stand at a distance and repeatedly chuck the ball into the midst of a group of other dogs, even if they weren't in class but especially then! I like to think I would walk over to her and ask politely if she would mind throwing the ball for her dog in the opposite direction as it was disrupting the class and bothering the other dogs. If she said no or something along the lines of it's a public space and she could do what she wants, I would then say ok and move the entire class over to where she was standing and set up surrounding her, saying it's a public space and we can do what we want...*evil laugh*

(I wouldn't really as wouldn't be fair to the dogs in the class but I love the image of it)

[Two Best Dogs!]

I don't mind your thoughts Willem.

As it happened with each repetition thistle got more worked up (I should add, she was overexcited not fearful so a different threshold to what we are both used to working with) and when I realised it was a lost cause around the 8th or so for both of us I took us away from class to do some distraction exercises. Heeling, sits, drops etc easy stuff to regain control.

Although my upset frustration probably didn't help in conveying what I wanted (sit calmly, not straining and barking) she at least calmed down faster than I did.

If dog was 10 metres away like others dogs chasing ball (it's not an uncommon occurrence) I think we would have been okay. But this was way too close and too often to have any chance at regaining attention without leaving

I'm thinking now. Sometimes there's a fella before classes doing the same thing at a respectful distance with his BC. I'll try to practice some look and dismiss and calm behaviours around him. 8-9 metres perhaps. Thistle has seen this dog many times before too unlike other lady who's an unknown (so another factor).

I was thinking. Maybe if i turn her to face the other way the minute I see that owner starting up, thistle will not realise what is going on. But then I thought, wouldn't it be funny if the whole class lined up with our backs and dog backs to this lady who so desperately wants an audience?

[dididog]

Ugh that would've pissed me off so much! Our old club was also at a public oval and because a running track went around the park so many offlead dogs would run into our classes. Luckily all the trainers took 0 shit and would grab any dog straight away and yell at the offending owner to get their dogs. The shame and embarrassment of 30-40 dog owners watching those owners reclaim their dog was generally enough to put them off but some still thought it was a bit of a chuckle.

I reckon if it happens again you should just get one of the trainers (or somebody with a dog that won't mind the BC) to just grab the ball and hold it hostage until she's forced to come close enough to get told off. Technically she's infringing leash laws by allowing her offlead dog in an organised event so threaten her with a trip from the ranger if she still doesn't take it seriously.

Also agree that though how I'm feeling has some effect on my dog's reactivity, when she's that far over threshold that she's fixated and not listening like Thistle was then she's not really responding to anything other than the trigger and the only thing that will salvage the situation is distance from the trigger to allow my dog to be able to focus on me. While I appreciate that you are probably only trying to help and aren't trying to start a debate here Willem, this is a thread specifically for documenting our challenges with getting out and about with our reactive dogs and is a safe space to vent to other owners who understand. Coming into the thread and trying to imply that Thistle's owner was some how more of a problem than the rude woman trying to upset an entire class of dogs is a bit unnecessary especially since Thistle's owner didn't ask for advice or opinions.

[Scottsmum]

I'd have grabbed the ball!

[JulesP]

You got the odd person at my club too that is determined to walk through on club day.

[Two Best Dogs!]

It really is the worst time for it too, lots of new people with new dogs so a bit of chaos as everyone gets settled. I would worry the risk of one of the DA dogs breaking free! Especially the bigger ones.

Thistle I'm pretty sure just wanted to play too, but obviously I prefer approved dogs I know will tolerate her clumsy manners and not as a reward for lead pulling.

I would report to rangers but I don't want the risk of this somehow harming the clubs event renting if asshole owner decides that way to cause trouble...ill keep an eye out to see if she's a new regular at the same time...

Edited February 3, 2016 by Thistle the dog

[JulesP]

My club trains at an off lead area. So I can sort of see why some people may feel the need to walk through as a statement. Or maybe they are just plain thoughtless!

[Scottsmum]

despite the risk of getting told off again like in so many other threads, here my opposing thoughts (I will leave it with this one post, promised :) ):

...was the ball plus the other dog a real danger?...like an approaching car?...or a running chain saw?...the ball and the dog might have well triggered a reaction in your dog - but could it be also a problem how you respond to such situations?...while the ball and the other dog triggered this unwanted 'state of mind' in your dog, by your response (becoming very upset about this other lady, frustrated and fearful) in a way you are reinforcing your dog's behaviour: seeing you changing your mood as a response to this other dog respectively ball - that's similar to telling your dog oh yes, this is not a good situation, that's dangerous...better to worry...

You said 'Once the lady moved off, Thistle was able to calm down pretty quickly...' ...maybe your dog calmed down quickly because she saw you suddenly relaxing?...which told her the danger is gone for now?

You have a very strong bond to your dog - if Thistle senses that your mood changes from balanced to worried what do you think it triggers in your dog?

Snook said it too - dick move by the lady.

It would be unacceptable for her to do this to a kids soccer game or a seniors tai chi session - so why is it acceptable for her to do it to an obedience class?

Anyhow - Very glad Thistle coped - makes me happy to hear that.

[grumpette]

I would have let Zeph get the ball when it landed close by, and got him to heel. Then she could come and get it. Stupid bitch.

If it had of been Dee, the BC would have been in trouble. Deliberately baiting other dogs to stroke your own ego is the lowest act. Stupid bitch.

It is great that Thistle recovered.

[Two Best Dogs!]

Awwwww go justice! He's such a trooper. Do we get any lovely pics? :)

[Two Best Dogs!]

A good reason to not having pics, I'll have to use my imagination of their cuteness :)

[Two Best Dogs!]

I'm hogging the thread...

This week was a little better I guess but I'm still frustrated. Thistle has taken up doing "go away barks" at random passerbys again and also our dog trainer (we see her around but this is only our second sesssion with her)*. They were all walking pass, not towards her. She did quiet down a bit while I worked out the attentive but quiet distance - about 1.8 metres - so I could reward her for quiets.

The rude BC lady wasn't here that I saw, but then we were all on the fringes and not the field because it is hot. There was an old spaniel playing sedate fetch with a frisbee at about 10 metres which Thistle had subdued interest in so I rewarded her for looking and dismissing.

She did really well with leave it and people-with-dogs walking past while in a drop. I was really bummed out when the other girl with a dog-reactive dog got to progress to advanced and not us, she's only been here about 6 months. Well obviously we wouldn't be, with Thistle acting out over passerbys, but it still stings. It's down to me and one other guy from my induction level who haven't gone to that class.

There were the usual offlead dogs who I think we've got a good handle on. The black kelpie is DA but very obedient so we just give him space. The solo schnauzer is dog indifferent but I think she's baffled by his shape so stares a lot. The old brown kelpie just doesn't care so she sniffs him and he just stands there. Dude is soooooooooo old. Black/white border collie just wants his ball. Rude lady's brown BC also just wants his ball. white schnauzer and paired black schnauzers are trouble so I avoid.

We hang around to watch people pack up because its something different to reward her with (tent coming down, segways, weird movements), she was doing great ignoring the other dogs and not barking these (familiar) people. Even let the head trainer walk past without barking, only tenseness. The offlead old spaniel who was playing fetch and his owners had come over and she only barked at them once before ignoring. She was paying the old spaniel no mind, even kept drinking some water while he walked around her, until he decided to jog past us (<1m) after his owners and she lunged after. Not sure if it was a "go away" lunge or a "let me body slam you as a greeting" lunge or a "I can jog too and also jump on you" lunge but it was embarrassing and frustrating.

Idk. I've almost had her a year and it feels like we've progressed a lot but also not at all at the same time.

*After months of her not I'm finding this back step confronting. I'll give it another week then try and toss up between the vet (maybe something is hurting her?) or getting a one on one with the head trainer, whom she will bark at a lot because it'd be a housevisit...

Edited February 7, 2016 by Thistle the dog

[Two Best Dogs!]

No, I get you. I have wondered if she's just feeling a bit burnt out and over it.

Even before class started, when asked how we were going, I'd mentioned she'd been pretty standoffish this week at her usual haunts. Didn't misbehave or anything, she just pretended people didn't exist. Even the ones she usually approaches for attention, she would obviously look away and I don't let people push it.

But the barking is less acceptable, because you dont' know when someone is an asshole who may take affront and escalate. Even though while barking she also backs up so she was definitely not feeling safe but I'm not sure why as it wasn't anything new? Just two old people walking past? On their third final loop she stayed quiet. I wish they had done more though, so she could realise nothing to worry about. They were not looking at her or anything.

I'll skip out on our thursday people session this week, see how she is next week to decide if the vet or 1on1 is in order. Never had more than 2 weeks of playing up before. I get overexcited days happen, but 3 weeks in a row (+1 public holiday weekend off) is a bit much.

Also next week is our anniversary So i hope she feels better then.

Dog, you confuse me and make me sad sometimes.

[JulesP]

Thistle's Mum sounds rather overwhelmed and worn out. With all the stuff with your family I am not surprised. Can I suggest that you stop all training for a couple of weeks and just do things with Thistle that are going to make you both happy.

[Two Best Dogs!]

Do like our training but I guess I am struggling a bit maybe a big break is in order, I'll see how we both seem to feel next week. We can always cut back to just in and out for class, no hanging around before or after. Thanks guys, a good suggestion

[Simply Grand]

Yes, I agree too, take a bit of a break for you both to relax, and don't put too much pressure on yourself. You are both doing so well, don't lose sight of that because things aren't perfect :)