Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[hankdog]

Strangely Jake is best with the blondes, Goldens or labs. It's about the only thing I can actually sort out from what sets him off.

[Two Best Dogs!]

Poppy used to think GR were the spawn of Satan! She found their happy bounciness very offensive. Last week we had 2 run up to us on different days and she just wagged her tail at them. Both were pretty full on too, I thought one was going to knock us all over! Luckily both dogs recalled to their owners so it wasn't a prolonged meeting. But I was pretty pleased.

Ah a scenario like that sounds like a dream! *_*

I had jims mowing over today while at work. Great chance to test what she's like when I'm not there while she's indoors. The fella said she didn't bark, but she did stand and watch him the whole time through the window. He was just pruning my trees in the powerlines for me, I've still got to get home and bundle the branches up.

Glad to find she's not a barker or reacting through the window.

Yeah my best friends are really accomodating. I'm trying to catch the girl who works there with the calm small spaniel that we had a nice greeting with, hope to have another quick sit, chill, sniff, sit session. A calming influence for thistle to practice those polite sniffs on :)

[Better Late]

Guess I should probably pop back in for an update as Bonnie has come along in leaps and bounds since we went up to see K9Pro.

It culminated in her today not 45 minutes ago tolerate four kids riding past her on bikes about a metre away from us, twice, with only a short growl each time. No barking, lunging, foaming, snapping, fire-breathing riot dog. The leash handle was on my middle finger, it was hanging loose, and she could have done anything she wanted to but she showed amazing impulse control and I'm so proud of her. She also walked on a loose leash past them about five times.

Then we moved to where there is a particularly zen Husky behind a fence. She knew he was there. There was a little leash pulling and straining to get a better look, but there were NO vocalisations at all and she responded excellently when I asked her to fall back in beside me.

Absolutely f*cking elated!!!

[Two Best Dogs!]

Oh well done Bonnie!! You must be so proud!

[Better Late]

Thanks guys. We had another great day today. There are tradies building some houses across our little culdesac so I opened the front door to do some training, she settled down really well so I moved us outside. In the past men in hi-vis have set her right off but not so today, we loose leash walked up and down the culdesac a few times and when we were down the bottom, a couple of kids came around the top corner. We did some focus work and then started walking back to the house as the kids came towards us. They gave us a nice bit of space, didn't just reach out and pat her, but just looked at us curiously. I stopped, asked Bonnie to sit, she did, and I told the kids about her fear issues and that we were doing some training to help her not be scared any more. Then we moved off. She was bloody brilliant :D

[hankdog]

We have been having some interesting discussions at training. Today we were discussing that some reactive dogs can have their "intent" changed whereas others will always have the same intent but you can just work on getting as much control of their behaviour. This was quite an "aha" moment for me and has somewhat changed my attitude to his training.

Jake is one of those who will never change their intent. What does everyone think their dog is, changeable or not? How would this affect your attitude to training?

[Two Best Dogs!]

What is meant by intent?

[Two Best Dogs!]

Hmm. I think thistles intent could be changed, as mostly she's just lacking in confidence + the bad experiences. She did get along with dogs prior to the attack and I don't know if her new fear of dogs is wholly the attack - I think a bit of it is she doesn't have a big dog buddy who can sniff the dog first and let her know it's okay, so she's more likely to regard everything as a threat. Mostly sudden movements or being rushed.

But she has shown interest in "being social" with other dogs. Quick polite nose sniffs and the like. But then she gets overwhelmed and goes back to "SPACE!!"

So I think her intent of "making dogs go away be trying to growl or nip at them" can be changed to "making them go away be ignoring/not responding" with a side of approved calm buddies :)

I might try justices look game. It's different to ours kind of, ours she gets rewarded for looking at dog then back at me - and if the scenario calls for if, sitting quietly, yawning, dropping, looking away from dog etc etc

I also think she is a very "intent" dog? Like, she doesn't really bark. Her reactivity is going very still and staring. Actually she gets the stares a lot, so maybe some BC or similar in there. So she looks rude to other dogs who stare back and then she gets upset they are staring and *redirects attention*

[Two Best Dogs!]

What I'm doing with Justice morphs in to him looking at the dog calmly and then looking back at me before he gets rewarded and also getting rewarded for anything that shows disengaging with the trigger, like sniffing, turning his head away or turning his body away etc.. Our starting point is just rewarding him for looking at the dog to try and get him past seeing a dog and switching straight in to meltdown mode and being unable to cope with anything or respond to any kind of training or food. Once he's super chilled with that then we'll move on to delaying the reward until he looks back at me voluntarily but he's not ready for that. While I consider that he's rocking the counter conditioning sessions (we're about to head out and do another one) this is based on him being able to look at the dogs without freaking out and and being able to accept food. He's still on alert while we're doing it and quite grabby with the food unless I slow him down for every single piece and tell him to be gentle, which is working. So, in my opinion at least, if you've already got Thistle looking away or disengaging in other ways when she sees a trigger, it's probably better to stick with that unless you think she actively avoids looking at triggers in the first place. Justice was hiding his head, frantically climbing up me or running away to avoid looking at dogs so the starting point is getting him to look at them before I teach him to look away from them.

Ah I see. Yeah, I think mine is more she sees her trigger and fixates on it (provided it isn't something moving suddenly towards us and causing her to bolt). So I guess we're more on reducing that so she can calm herself down by looking away.

Interesting how different dogs have different coping methods

[Two Best Dogs!]

Oh that's reassuring that we are progressing in a desirable direction? (I don't yet know what next steps are, this is just stuff the trainer has instructed us to do. Suppose I'll find out if we advance tomorrow!)

>_>; I've been slacking this week. I hope thistles training hasn't suffered for it. Mostly duration commands and mat... :s and I've been lazy and just giving her dinner instead of impulse control <_<;

She has shark teeth and isn't gentle at all at getting treats! I'm going to lose my fingers one day. GENTLE PLS

Edited September 26, 2015 by Thistle the dog

[JulesP]

Would any of you guys tether your dog at dog school and walk off and leave it?

[Two Best Dogs!]

Would any of you guys tether your dog at dog school and walk off and leave it?

Never!!! Even if I wanted to I'd be kicked out of my school, we have a very explicit rule on it. And I would never do that - not safe at all! If I DID have to leave her at some point in the school I'd ask a trainer to hold her for me - on the chain (we train with nylon) so she can't chew through it and follow me.

But I even take her into the bathroom with me (which is a stressful experience because she won't go in the cubical so I've got to go with the door open repeatedly saying in a loud voice "don't enter the bathroom, i'm in here with a scared dog, please wait outside").

Much better to take back to your car??? D:

Regarding our dog school today: Nothing bad happened, although none of the class passed to the next level. Thistle was an absolute ratbag *exasperated face*. I'd tell her to drop - she'd drop....then roll around all over the grass. Wouldn't sit, was getting up and walking around, not looking at me. All minor rat-bag annoyances that we will work on this week. The concentrated heel was introduced toward the end.

She nearly bumped into another dog while we were loose lead walking but she just looked at him then continued following me :D (she has politely sniffed this fella once before and we started training the same week so she's used to him. But he's a typical in your face happy staffie)

Homework this week is concentrated heel...and back to reinforcing her looking at me because it's my fault, I've been so lax the past fortnight while classes were off. *ashamed*

[JulesP]

Mmmm I went and suggested to my club today that reactive dogs were not tethered and left. This was after one got loose and ran up to its owner who was near me and Poppy. It had a bit of a growl but luckily nothing happened. The committee members I spoke to didn't see the problem with reactive dogs being tethered and left!

I lug a crate to school each week as I wouldn't tether mine!

[Two Best Dogs!]

Mmmm I went and suggested to my club today that reactive dogs were not tethered and left. This was after one got loose and ran up to its owner who was near me and Poppy. It had a bit of a growl but luckily nothing happened. The committee members I spoke to didn't see the problem with reactive dogs being tethered and left!

I lug a crate to school each week as I wouldn't tether mine!

But if your reactive is just tied up and left on its own, how will you reinforce good behaviour and discourage negative behaviour? Not to mention prevent it being triggered or any number of bad situations. Other dogs running up to it, people, children....major liability for that dog class...

[Two Best Dogs!]

The only time I ever tethered Justice during obedience classes was during a specific exercise where our dogs were being taught to wait calmly while we walked out of sight behind a barrier. Every other dog was sitting with their owner on leash during this time and the tethered dog was supervised by the trainer from a couple of metres away during the minute or so it took each person to disappear and come back. I would never in a million years tether him and leave him unsupervised, not so much out of a fear of him getting away (which is obviously also a risk) but because people are idiots and will walk their dogs close to or right up to a tethered dog. Even when Justice was doing great and coping with dogs running up to him I never would have tethered him and left him like that. Too much can go wrong.

We're not up to out of sight stays yet, but I cannot imagine doing this outside of classes (controlled) for situations in the future where it may be needed (i.e. Tying Thistle to a pole while I walk up to a car stopped in the middle of the road and help push it, with frequent glances to make sure she's still sitting calmly/being left alone)

This though, just sounds like irresponsible

[hankdog]

I think if it's part of an excercise then I would but I'd just never leave any reactive dog unsupervised. Nothing left to chance is the best way to deal with a reactive dog.

Intent is about the emotional response that the dog feels, Jake will always want to go fight. My previous attitude to training was to hope he might make the right choice and reward him for that. This has got some results but it's highly variable, on one day he might be able to disengage and in another he might lunge at every step, initially he would always be lunging at every step.

I have known for a long time that he's broken and can't be fixed but somehow having it put that way just sort of clicked something in my brain.

So really the way to train him is to offer him no choice, he must always listen to my choice. It's very hard for me to correct him, at heart I'm a positive only trainer. Mentally I know that won't work but it doesn't make it easier that he's such a gentle sook and now I have to be hard with him.

[JulesP]

No wasn't part of any exercise.

They do teach tethering but the instructor is there watching. I used to tell my classes to not tether their dogs though, lol.

[hankdog]

Sometimes I tether Jake if I'm in certain parts of the garden that you see the street from. Really bad idea, once he saw a dog on the street and pulled me off my feet whilst I had a hose in my hand, he managed to drag me a few feet and we were one sorry, soggy mess. Another time he fell off the bridge, luckily he slipped out of the harness and landed in the creek after a short dangle...let's face it he's just one pooch that needs speshul supervision.

[hankdog]

He looks very relaxed and happy. Good on you for juggling so many things.

[Two Best Dogs!]

Aww look at him go!