Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[grumpette]

Wow Better Late, that is a brilliant up date. I am rapt that your hard work and dedication is paying off.

Yes, stupid people will never admit that it is their dog or themselves that are at fault.

[grumpette]

I have been thinking about the high court challenge over Izzy the SBT.

I don't think that I could subject a dog of mine to living in a pound for two years while the legal wheels turned ever so slowly. Dee is reactive, with very high prey drive and not resilient. Being stuck in a pound environment would kill her, and if I ever got her back, she would never be the same dog as she was before she went in. She would be constantly going off at all the other dogs, trying to attack the smaller dogs, and be uncertain of the humans, to the point where she would eventually shut down. She is used to actively using her brain through training and outings. She is confident with unknown humans through constant socialisation and positive experiences. She sleeps indoors, even on the couch. Being in a pound for that long would kill her.

The above terrifies me, so this is why I am so very strict with her management, and constantly watching her body language.

What do you Ladies think? If an incident occurred and you were issued with a justified NOI, would you contest it?

[Better Late]

Thanks grumpette, she is a work in progress! The goal is to be able to add a second dog to the household when she is ready, a take anywhere, do anything with, mentally stable pup with good drive so I can get into dog sports and have a companion when I'm doing my rounds :) It's a while off yet but thats the goal.

I'm with you grumpette as far as the Izzy case goes, Bonnie was in the pound for six months before we picked her up and she was completely shut down because of it. Instead of seeing a behaviourist and dealing with her issues, her previous owners chucked her into a situation that ramped up her reactions towards other dogs, to the point where she had to be kenneled three pens down from a particular bitch with blankets over the fence so they couldn't see eachother. The effects that would have on a dogs psyche is enormous, and I don't know if we'll ever know what Bonnie was like pre-pound. We just have who she is now to manage.

It would be completely unfair on her and there is NO WAY she is ever going back into a pound environment, like you grumpette I'm very strict with her training and management and constantly watching her body language.

I would have to take all of the factors surrounding the NOI into consideration before I decided whether to contest it...I suppose its not something I could decide on until it (god forbid) happened.

[hankdog]

No I wouldnt contest but I'd take my dog to my vet, no way would I hand him over to strangers.

It's tricky to understand each situation. Folks up the road had a very friendly unfortunate looking dog who escaped, got on the wrong side of breed judgement and I think did about three months in jail before release. I suppose if I had a dog that would pass a temperament test then I might contest and I suppose one day becomes a week that becomes two years.

When we got Hank he had been at the SPCA for eleven months which surprised me but they said he had such an easy going nature they didn't think he was stressing in the cage environment (I might have mentioned before that he was Hank the wonder dog????).

Some dogs would cope and if their only crime is to look wrong then I would see myself fighting. If the dog has however attacked then I'd be having a long hard think about whether I'm able to manage the dog and whether he should be released. Sometimes judgements might just be warranted.

[Taliecat]

If I was given NOI, I would be off to the vet myself as well.

There is no way Dozer would be able to cope in a pound environment or pass the breed assessment (unpapered amstaff) let alone the temperament testing..

I shuddered at the thought of Dozer in a pound environment. The constant attempts to get to other dogs, and the knowledge that in the past he has transferred his high level of arousal onto my OH and myself, the lack of freedoms, no couch or bed with minimal human contact.

Having a reactive, high drive dog is a challenge for any owner.

Then we factor in his strength and that he's was our first dog. Sometimes I wonder if we made the right choice because he'll never get to have a normal life for a dog.

He's not the perfect dog, but we're sticking with him even though our doubts and working with him a lot.

He's a terrible dog around other dogs, and seems menacing when he greets doorknockers (only ever the religious callers and even then he'd just pee on them in excitement if they were introduced.) or if you play tug with him it does sound like he's feral and going to eat you..

People who have been invited into our home get to see him as the big soft goofball he really is, the dog that thinks he's still small enough to curl up on my lap and talks to get pats and cuddles.

The way he'll talk (yowls and yips and aroooing) to us and our housemates when he's excited or someone has gotten up for the day or while his food is being prepared. In some occasions he'll talk back when he's on a sock stealing mission and he's trying to barter treats for socks.

It broke my heart when he reached maturity and decided that he was a people dog and didn't want to be around other dogs.

He is mostly a pretty lazy snuggler, he's not overweight in the slightest and has good muscle tone but I feel terrible that he doesn't get walked as often as he should because our neighbourhood is full of numpties with offleash dogs and SWFs that are running around in unattended front yards.

We do trick training at home regularly, we play fetch and he's got a home alone bungie toy that he gets a good workout with.

He'll also race around the yard a couple of times a day to make sure no cats have snuck in, but for the majority of the day he'll nap on the grass or at my feet, content with somewhere comfy to sleep and the company of his owners..

If you couldn't find somewhere that is safe to walk your dogs, what would you do to supplement training and relieve boredom?

[JulesP]

If you couldn't find somewhere that is safe to walk your dogs, what would you do to supplement training and relieve boredom?

lol, that is why this thread was started in the first place!! Maybe read the beginning pages as there were ideas there.

What works for me is walking at non-peak periods. I'm lucky I can do this. Around 10 is quite good here. I avoid public holidays. And really like rainy days! Only you dedicated walkers are out in the rain and I find their dogs are normally pretty good.

I couldn't walk safely from my last house so used to drive to walks.

My girls aren't likely to chomp another dog so I don't have to worry about that. If I thought they would bite a loose dog then I would muzzle them.

[megan_]

Yip - I walk the dogs before 6am here. Even without my reactive girl I'd do this as there are a few dogs here that walk off leash later in the morning. Main roads are also good because you're less likely to find off leash dogs running around.

I haven't posted here in aaaaggggeees because things had been relatively good and stable. My nephew has moved in with me though and every single time he gets up and walks around she goes nuts. It has been two months of this constantly. He has fed her, gives her treats, does some training etc yet it happens every. single. day.

I've gotten drugs as a last resort. The poor kid needs to feel like he can get a glass of water without all hell breaking loose.

[Better Late]

We walk our girl in the local national park every morning for a good hour, always on a long line of course as her prey drive is off the hook. At night she gets either some off leash running at our local showgrounds oval (completely enclosed), a walk up and down the stable blocks/cattle yards if there are people using the oval or we go back to the national park if its light enough. Occasionally she gets to go running with my partner too. All with some training thrown in of course to keep her listening.

Who here has a Thundershirt and what have they done for your pooch? We've had ours for two days and I'm almost in tears with the difference. My previously aloof dog who would rather sit on the other side of the room to me is now coming up voluntarily, eager for cuddles with me. Her tail is up and wagging a lot more and she's a LOT more playful, and her reactions to certain triggers are FAR FAR less intense. It is absolutely amazing!! Its like she's discovering how to be a normal dog.

[BC Crazy]

Thundershirt works like magic here. Huge fan. Stella comes running to get hers on. Instantly she is noticeably calmer & happier. She is an extremely noise phobic/anxious girl so it is a god send for us. I have also brought Sonny one now as he is a bit unsettled in really bad storms like atm. Definitely takes the edge off.

So pleased it is working for your girl as well. You are doing so well with her. Good on you for your dedication. All your ground work will pay off in the long run. I'm just starting to see some very pleasing behaviour from Stella. She is coping with stressful situations far better. Her confidence has improved too. She even breezed through an hour long Vet visit yesterday, including getting a set of bloods drawn & complete physical check up.

I'm so proud of her. Considering previous Vet visits have had her attempting to jump out of a closed window & upturning all the furniture in the waiting room & biting the Vet on the face.

Edited April 21, 2015 by BC Crazy

[Jemmy]

Sounds like everyone is coming along well!

Snook, do you still read this thread? I've been wondering after you and Justice :)

We're at the stage that I've registered us for the million paws walk this year. We've arranged to walk with some known doggy friends, I'm really looking forward to it.

[BC Crazy]

Been wondering where Snook & Justice have gone as well. Miss them. Hope they come back.

The paws walk is a really nice morning out. Been to quite a few. Stella is not keen on crowds. All a bit much for her. Took her when she was a youngster but she had a melt down so we came home. She has improved 100% with training & the right medication though. The last 6 months or so I have really notice she is gaining confidence & is some what calmer than she used to be & when her reactivity does escalate she is settling a lot faster. She can collect herself again. Previously once she was in a hightened mental state she would shut down & that is where she stayed for however long as I couldn't reach her.

Very pleased about that as her Epilepsy seizures seemed to be triggered by highly stressful situations also so combating her anxiety & noise phobia's are my top priority. She hasn't had a seizure in over 12 months now :D

Edited April 25, 2015 by BC Crazy

[hankdog]

Jake dilemma number 57: so at training this week we had my normal trainer and then another trainer with a youngish dog. Jake has been a bit feral lately and I was working hard to try keep him under control. Finally my trainer said "I don't really see a change in Jake but you seem more stressed."

So I took a minute to think about it and realised that I was quite concerned about Jake upsetting the new, young dog (we've been working with a very stable older dog) and the impression he was making on the other trainer. We have also had a tough week with the floods and no electricity so I think I started closer to my threshold.

Now when I'm walking I'm in that same mind frame, I'm trying to quieten him so he doesn't get reported and I don't really see that I can not do anything. When we are training in our regular set up I just let him finish his barking episodes and then continue with whatever training task we were doing. Again my dog is messing with my head????.

Edited April 25, 2015 by hankdog

[JulesP]

Jake dilemma number 57: so at training this week we had my normal trainer and then another trainer with a youngish dog. Jake has been a bit feral lately and I was working hard to try keep him under control. Finally my trainer said "I don't really see a change in Jake but you seem more stressed."

So I took a minute to think about it and realised that I was quite concerned about Jake upsetting the new, young dog (we've been working with a very stable older dog) and the impression he was making on the other trainer. We have also had a tough week with the floods and no electricity so I think I started closer to my threshold.

Now when I'm walking I'm in that same mind frame, I'm trying to quieten him so he doesn't get reported and I don't really see that I can not do anything. When we are training in our regular set up I just let him finish his barking episodes and then continue with whatever training task we were doing. Again my dog is messing with my head????.

You aren't going to get reported for him going off his tree :) Sure it must be very embarrassing but him barking, bouncing or whatever on lead is not something that you can be charged with. When I see people with dogs acting like that I feel sympathy more than anything. If I see them out a lot, I think 'good on you for still walking that dog'.

[hankdog]

Unfortunately I have been threatened by some people and there are some streets I can't walk on for that reason. At least they were honest enough to tell me to my face rather than just reporting without telling me. There may not be anything council would do but I'd rather stay below the radar and it wouldn't be beyond some people to fabricate stuff.

[Kynan]

Hi Sir Snook,

Have you tried Mark Singer?

I am currently attending his Reactive Dog classes and the positive difference after only 3 weeks in all of the dogs including some that were initially extremely reactive and aggressive is amazing. The dogs are all now working within 2 metres of each other and some of these dogs were going absolutely nuts at greater than 50 metres away from each other the first week.

[hankdog]

Snook good to hear from you althpugh not the best news. Poor Justice, that would be heartbreaking to see. Jake has some new bizarre behaviour and it has been suggested that as anxious dogs get older their behaviour can become less controlled. Possibly his age and the repeated experiences are adding up.

For fun today Jake will not detach himself from me, I think because I went for a 3 hour bike ride without him on Saturday. At least it's cold but it's a bit tricky because he puts his head on my foot whilst I'm sewing and sometimes presses the machine foot. Dopey dog.

[BC Crazy]

Snook, nice you are here :) Sorry to read Justice is having a very rough time of late. Being attacked twice Very difficult situation. You are managing him wonderfully well. He is very fortunate to have you.

Kynan, Mark Singer has a really good name. I'm loving the sound of those reactive classes. Glad they are working for you both.

Hankdog, I think it's terrible that you have been threatened by people. But I would be keeping a low profile as you are. I know when Stella is behaving badly & being reactive in public some of the things people have said to me blew me away. What I should do with Stella has had me in tears.I should have her put down, she's a crazy dog. etc etc And in some instances Stella was getting the blame for scuffles that happened around the area & at the beach by some regulars & she wasn't even there.

I think also when your dog's is going through a rough patch it is a very demanding ongoing situation for an owner. Owning a very reactive dog or a weak nerve dog is 24/7 work IMO & sometimes your nerves do become frayed & you do get anxious. Your other dog radar is always on. This is something I try & control now as your dog can read this. I'm staying a lot calmer & more assertive. I think it is paying off

Edited April 27, 2015 by BC Crazy

[BC Crazy]

Snook good to hear from you althpugh not the best news. Poor Justice, that would be heartbreaking to see. Jake has some new bizarre behaviour and it has been suggested that as anxious dogs get older their behaviour can become less controlled. Possibly his age and the repeated experiences are adding up.

For fun today Jake will not detach himself from me, I think because I went for a 3 hour bike ride without him on Saturday. At least it's cold but it's a bit tricky because he puts his head on my foot whilst I'm sewing and sometimes presses the machine foot. Dopey dog.

Oh, how cute Hankdog. Jake is helping you do your sewing :D

[hankdog]

Dopey dog finally settled on the couch wrapped in a blanket. I was working right next to him but didn't notice the blanket fell off, he cannot regulate his body temp and was shaking so hard I noticed the couch vibrating at 2 pm. Poor sausage I wrapped him up and he sat on me with his head under my jumper for twenty minutes before he stopped shivering. Natural selection had no part in the creation of Jake.

[teekay]

I have a lot to catch up on in this thread. Luka has been doing ok. We aren't moving forward anymore but we aren't moving back either. There are good days and bad days but mostly he's pretty good. We have a problem at the moment though. I absolutely dread him getting sick or anything. The thought of going ot the vets is just nightmare material. I am now going to break the rules of the forum and copy a post from the Genral Dog Thread:

So yesterday, I was kicking a ball for Luka and the goofball manged to get in front of it as I kicked it. It's a Chuckit kick fetch ball. Made of hard foam. It hit him squarely in the eye He didn't yelp or anything but slinked off so I had a look and his eye was closed up. I prised it apart, which didn't seem to hurt him and it looked fine. I kept an eye on him and over the next couple of hours the eye returned to normal. He seemed totally fine.

Tbh I forgot all about it today. He has seemed absolutely fine, however he has just come over to me and I have noticed the white of his eye is very red.

Now, normally it would be off to the vets in the morning no problem. The problem here is Luka's fear issues. I do not want to go to the vet if it isn't warranted. Especially as she is going to have to get so close to look in his eye, it's going to be a very stressful day, for him and me Obviously if he needs it we will suck it up and go but wondered what people thought. Could he have any serious damage going on. He seems totally fine, doesn't mind me touching it.

Advice? Experiences

?

I know most of the advice is going to be "go to the vet' "don't mess around with eyes". Most of those from people who do not have reactive dogs It really isn't that simple. Obviously I will go if I need to but it's determining whether I really need to. The eye doesn't appear to be sore at all. I guess I was really hoping someone would say "Oh that happened to my dog once and he was fine, no need for a vet visit" Sorry, feeling frustrated and sorry for myself atm and I am not having a go at the people posting about going to the vets, I know you can't diagnose over the internet

Fearful reactive dogs are a constant constant worry.