BC Crazy Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Geez HD Jake built like a you know what isn't he? 26kg, he's a solid boy alright. Wow I never would of thought he'd weigh that much. Oh great ideas there too, thanks. I'd forgotten about the 101 box thing, I've always wanted to give that a go. And love the hoops idea too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Yea he's an elephant nugget. You could probably train Stella to pick up and move stuff. I've heard of other DOlers who trained their dogs to pack away toys. Given I couldn't get my kids to do that I can't give you advice there. Jake has a couple of toys that squeak, and bells that ring when he pushes them with his paw. He doesn't like using his mouth to pick up stuff so I gave up on retrieve. There's also scent work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Late Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I've just read through this entire thread! As I'm a new member (long time lurker) and there's every chance I'll be adopting a (possibly) dog reactive dog in the next week. We're organising a meet and greet in the next few days at the RSPCA shelter, all we know is she is four years old and is 'not too keen' on other dogs. The word is that her previous owners might not have socialised her properly when she was growing up, but she's a sweetheart and isn't doing so well in the shelter environment so we're looking forward to meeting her and, all going well, giving her a second chance :) so I thought I would do some reading first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Stella, so sorry you're not well. I can empathise. While I don't have a BC, I do have a boisterous lab and I've also found a quieter voice and slower movements definitely affect his energy. Not in a bad way! I do what you're doing on my bad days and give him mind work rather than physical. I think it's ok - he seems happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I've just read through this entire thread! As I'm a new member (long time lurker) and there's every chance I'll be adopting a (possibly) dog reactive dog in the next week. We're organising a meet and greet in the next few days at the RSPCA shelter, all we know is she is four years old and is 'not too keen' on other dogs. The word is that her previous owners might not have socialised her properly when she was growing up, but she's a sweetheart and isn't doing so well in the shelter environment so we're looking forward to meeting her and, all going well, giving her a second chance :) so I thought I would do some reading first. Welcome! This thread is great, so many ideas. The support is second to none as well. Hope your meet goes well! @bccrazy - sorry you aren't well, but it's nice that Stella is recognising it and adjusting her pace. What a sweet girl. @hankdog - how are you doing? I saw that your new harness was short lived... Who knew Jake was made of jelly? I hope the ruffwear one works well for you, I have their less intense one and the buckles are very sturdy... I understand your apprehension with them though! I found on my version any pulling strain is through the non buckle area, which has made me feel better. @terri - how is Didi doing now? Did she cope OK at the vet recently? Our reactive dog class has been going well, sometimes Luna has taken to just laying down while the other dogs walk around! Crazy pup. We're working at a much larger distance on our own during the week, but I've got a lot more confidence, and I think in our situation that's half the battle. Sorry for any errors, it's so hard to proof read on the phone... And sorry if I missed anyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Wow better late that's a lot of reading. If she's at RSPCA then I doubt she will be incurable. I'd get some professional help booked straight up, changing homes is stressful but it's a time of changing behaviour. If a behaviourist gets in and shows you how to establish good leadership up front then your ride will be smoother. Thanks Jemmy, yes he has that magical ability that toddlers have to just turn his joints into jelly and make like an eel. It's great you can go to class Jemmy, I always hoped we would one day but I've accepted it won't hapoen. Still we love our one on one session, I can relax knowing no ones judging me and we always go for cake after????. I'm a firm believer in classical conditioning and making positive associations. It's kind of funny because sometimes I don't feel like going but then I focus on my coffee, cake and walk through the rose gardens after and then I'm always happy to go. I'm so easily trained. Edited December 8, 2014 by hankdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Wow better late that's a lot of reading. If she's at RSPCA then I doubt she will be incurable. I'd get some professional help booked straight up, changing homes is stressful but it's a time of changing behaviour. If a behaviourist gets in and shows you how to establish good leadership up front then your ride will be smoother. Definitely a good idea to arrange some training with a good behaviourist straight up :) As we know, all dogs respond well to clear leadership from us but with reactive dogs especially it's vital. That doesn't mean being hard on them or proving you are "alpha" but it does mean being really consistent and alert to what's going on around the dog. Most are reactive because of either fear or a negative association with the things that trigger them and learning how to teach them to look to you to decide what they should do in every situation, build trust in them that you will keep them safe and conditioning more positive associations will be invaluable. Good luck Better Late, can't wait to hear how you go :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dididog Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Good on you Better Late for taking on a dog in need, hopefully you will be able to work through her issues, this thread is a great source of info and support. Though if she is truly reactive and you don't have much experience with reactivity, it'd be a good idea to get a behaviourist on board sooner rather than later as the less mistakes and bad behaviour she can practice, the easier progress will be :) Jemmy- thanks for asking :) Didi's a funny one. She doesn't like the vet, an incident at our old one was pretty much the starting point of her intense dislike of being approached and touched so I didn't go in there with very high expectations! She was fine with pats and stuff but as soon as she could sense the vet wanted to do more than pats she got shitty with the vet. We put a muzzle on her but she was not going to stay still enough for an ear exam so had to be sedated. Funny thing was she was completely fine having the vet lead her out the back (she normally gets upset when a stranger takes her lead) and apparently was quite a sweety, sniffing them and wagging her tail and fine for pats after sedation. The sedation wasn't zapping all the fight out of her though because she still did her usually grumpy get away from my car routine when someone was standing next to our as we backed out so if she really wanted to she could've continued being angry at the vet. I think a lot of her reactivity stems from needing to protect me, she's still fearful of things but I think the thing that makes her react is the feeling that she has to protect me from the scary thing. I wasn't anxious in the vet so I don't think I was transferring anything, just weird that as soon as I left she was pretty much fine. I think we need to really get back into BAT and more intensely so that she trusts my ability to handle the situation more. siiiigh. Our new vet is connected to the pet store that Didi did puppy school at and where we weigh her every few weeks, she loves it there and loves the staff so I think we will go in there a lot more just for hanging out and doing some tricks, maybe getting vet/receptionist to come into the store part to give her treats and stuff when she's ready. She is getting so much more confidence at our new obedience school, it's great to see how happy and relaxed she is, everyone says she has such a nice temperament and didn't believe me when we first joined and I said she needed space :laugh: We have a our Christmas party break up next weekend with silly games and stuff to do so hopefully that will cheer her up. eta. great that your reactivity classes are going well and that Luna's benefitting, confidence for both you and your dog seems to be the most helpful thing with working through reactivity. I'm so unflappable now and being able to keep a cool head means we can navigate through tricky situations so much smoother! Edited December 8, 2014 by Terri S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Terri, sounds like Didi is improving I really like BAT, I think it's really useful and you should definitely keep it up but don't forget the idea is it is actually to teach the dog that they have options and can make their own decisions in situations that worry them. It will certainly increase her trust in you also but you want to make sure that she voluntarily performs a behaviour that is preferable to getting into reactive mode before you reward by moving away and reinforce with food or whatever other reward you're using. The timing is really tricky because you are looking for such a split second actions at first, like just glancing away from the stimulus for a moment but once you get the hang of it I think it's helpful. I know I've said before that you don' t generally want reactive dogs making decisions for themselves but as you progress and when you have that bond with the dog the next step is to start to teach them that they can make decisions but only certain appropriate decisions. So you give them back enough control to build their confidence but not enough to put themselves in negative situations where they resort to reacting like they are used to. Sorry, hope that all makes some sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dididog Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Terri, sounds like Didi is improving I really like BAT, I think it's really useful and you should definitely keep it up but don't forget the idea is it is actually to teach the dog that they have options and can make their own decisions in situations that worry them. It will certainly increase her trust in you also but you want to make sure that she voluntarily performs a behaviour that is preferable to getting into reactive mode before you reward by moving away and reinforce with food or whatever other reward you're using. The timing is really tricky because you are looking for such a split second actions at first, like just glancing away from the stimulus for a moment but once you get the hang of it I think it's helpful. I know I've said before that you don' t generally want reactive dogs making decisions for themselves but as you progress and when you have that bond with the dog the next step is to start to teach them that they can make decisions but only certain appropriate decisions. So you give them back enough control to build their confidence but not enough to put themselves in negative situations where they resort to reacting like they are used to. Sorry, hope that all makes some sense! No I get what you're saying SG and in some instances when I'm 99% sure she'll do fine I give her freedom eg. walking past people who aren't trying to pat her at a shopping strip without veering onto the road to avoid them and reward her for choosing to walk past without a fuss. This is a pretty good improvement for her but there's certainly only a few contexts where I trust her to make her own decisions and in others if given the chance she will choose to react. I guess because we've seen some improvements I might've gotten a little too slack in the scenarios where she still can't make her own decisions and be appropriate so I will have to readdress those... but everything is slowly getting better and our current situation is pretty manageable/she still gets to do most normal dog things so I don't see it as much of a burden anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 BC I'd be interested to see what a smarticle dog like Stella can do with a box. Jake got to flip it in its side and put his front legs up. Between both of us that's what we got. Better Late where abouts are you? People here can recommend an appropriate behaviourist. Not everyone who claims to be a behaviourist is equipped to deal with reactive dogs. Case in point I'm on trainer 5 who has stuck with us for over a year and gets us. There were a couple who just didn't see any hope for Jake because they didn't have the depth of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) I use the term class loosely, at the moment there's only one other student dog/handler pair, so it's almost one on one the trainer always brings a couple of her dogs so we can switch it up... It's a lot of LAT with various stimulus. What I love is being able to do LAT and know exactly what the other handler is doing. In the park on our own I worry someone might ignore the fact I'm training and head towards us. Edit: i forgot to mention I always have to Google BAT because I forget what it stands for and try and work it out from the LAT acronym. But "bark at that" just doesn't seem right, haha Edited December 8, 2014 by Jemmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Now if that were true Jake would be a BAT expert. Have you tried CAT.....yep there's that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Late Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Hankdog, we are in Central Vic. Theres a few to choose from but any recommendations would be greatly appreciated! You're all so right when you say get a behaviourist in, it's already at the top of my list. If she comes home with us I want to give her the best chance possible right off the bat and learn how to help her as best we can. Its all so exciting! Meet and greet is at 12pm today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Now if that were true Jake would be a BAT expert. Have you tried CAT.....yep there's that too. It took me aaaages to remember what CAT stood for, it just wouldn't stick in my brain for some reason. BTW, it's Constructional Aggression Treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Late Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Well, the adoption is looking really good from our point of view. We met her today and she was a completely different dog compared to what we saw yesterday in her kennel (shut down, whale eye, body language just said yeah no thanks to all of this). Today in the socialization area she ran around playing chasey with us, splashed around in the clam shell, sat for us when we asked her to, fed off our body langauge and chilled out once we decided play time was over, came to us for pats and was just an all round sweetheart. In the pen next to her there were two SWFs, she didnt bat an eye at them until they started barking their heads off when the handler went out of her pen and into theirs to put them back in the kennel. Once they started yapping it was almost a case of join in the chorus and sing it one and all, but once they had disappeared she was back to her playful self. The only other time she was even interested was when she caught sight of a dog about 30m away going around a corner, it was ears up and whats happening over there? But she made the choice to come back to us. We're taking a bit of time to think about things but at this stage, its a definite yes from both my partner and I. We already have a crate on the way and a longline from K9Pro coming, so the next thing on the list is a behaviourist. Looks like we're bringing her home next week :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 That sounds great Better Late :) definitely take your time to think about it but it sounds very exciting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 It's good you're not rushing into it. That all sounds really good. Jake for instance couldn't be in an area next to other dogs because he couldn't disengage. Just off my grand experience of one if she's able to play and ignore neighbours she sounds hopeful. I'm in sydney so can't help with a behaviourist down there. If you don't get an answer here ask in general and someone should know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Better Late, I'm not sure exactly where they are but DOLers Cosmolo, Nekhbet and Erny are all trainers in Vic. I'm sure they'd be willing to recommend someone if they don't work in your area too. I expect K9 Pro know people in Vic also and would be happy to advise if you asked them :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Late Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Better Late, I'm not sure exactly where they are but DOLers Cosmolo, Nekhbet and Erny are all trainers in Vic. I'm sure they'd be willing to recommend someone if they don't work in your area too. I expect K9 Pro know people in Vic also and would be happy to advise if you asked them :) Cheers SG, appreciate it! I'll post a thread in general later this arvo for recommendations. Also here is a photo we took of her yesterday, I'm off work due to mental health reasons at the moment and honestly, looking at this photo and just remembering her gentle nature makes me relaxed. She looks so content here. And I'm also sharing because I am in LOVE with her colouring and want to show off a bit haha Edited December 10, 2014 by Better Late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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