The Spencinator Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Hi everyone, thought I would give an update on Spencer. It's been a while and we have the hectic end of year uni chaos to thank for that! Spencer has now been on fluoxetine for over 6 weeks and I haven't noticed a difference unfortunately Plus side is there haven't been any side effects so I expect his dose will be raised when we go back for our review. Does anyone have any experience with dogs on fluoxetine? I would love to hear others' experiences. I think what has improved is my skills in managing him. We have some really firm routines in place for when visitors come over and we have only been walking a certain route which avoids dogs behind fences. I think this has been helping him. Only problem is the management plan goes out the window if I'm not home when visitors rock up and the remainder of my family is left to manage him. It was also really encouraging to see him begin to really come out of his shell at agility on the weekend and start to clown around like he does at home rather than look a bit mopey. We have an awesome instructor to thank for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 It's been Jakes savior. I don't think I could have gone on much longer without it and boy do I realise that if I forget a dose. A lot of vets seem to start in low dose and go up whereas mine started on maximum and came down to a balance between dopey and manageable. If you've noticed no behaviour change then I'd think your dose might be too low. You should have seen some sleepiness in the first few weeks at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dididog Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I get what you mean Spencinator about family not managing them consistently. I've been working on Didi's behaviour with visitors, as soon as there's a knock she's allowed a bark or two to let me know and then goes into my bedroom with the door shut and is only let out if completely calm (and in this period I have enough time to tell visitor how to treat her) and all goes smoothly when she is let out and for the rest of the visit. My mum however likes having the big barking doggy right behind her when she opens the door to strangers, getting Didi super aroused at the stranger on the otherside of the screendoor and then letting the visitor in without being able to talk to them first and the first thing they do is try and pat Didi as they come through the door which she doesn't take well as she's too aroused and feels trapped in the tiny hallway I have finished uni now for the year so hopefully will be home enough to intervene, we don't have too many visitors who Didi doesn't know and like fortunately. She's starting to get way better at it and stops barking much quicker than she used to when put in the bedroom. Taking the stress of decision making when it comes to who enters our house takes a load off her shoulders as I worked out she was actually okay with strangers in the house but the stress and arousal created in the initial door opening procedure meant she was on edge and distrustful of the visitor and would not calm down fully around them. Now she has no choice and can't discourage visitors from coming in through barks and intimidating them and the bedroom gives her time to reconcile with the fact there is a visitor in the house who isn't an axe murderer and then she's way more confident and calm once she is allowed out and acts like the visitor is her best friend rather than potential threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Try Karen overall's relaxation program. From memory you run it for a month and build up to the dog in a stay whilst you're out the room and knocking on the door. You can download it for free and it's very clearly laid out with a daily session. If you don't achieve that day's task you just repeat it until you do, it took us quite a while but we got there. I keep a purple leash and jar of treats at the front door. Jake knows it's the door leash, gets snapped on and he sits etc. Very routine now. Edited November 5, 2014 by hankdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I do really like Karen Overall's relaxation protocol. Although I am ashamed to say I haven't got to the end of it (need to put it back on the to do list). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 It took me about two and a half months to work through it. He took a long time for me to be able to get up off the chair and leaving the room was a big freak out. Actually I shoukd rerun it. He's having some stress issues at the moment, I'm thinking of upping his meds for a bit. Either that or take them myself! He threw a doozie tantrum yesterday and crashed into my hip, little turd then sat down and looked hopefully for peanut butter once the dog had disappeared. I was so cranky I just walked home ignoring him. Then he pulled a big sulk and refused to sit on the couch which was fine except I was ignoring him first and I wanted him to know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I think that's a good idea, and hopefully he's learnt that acting out means no peanut butter, even if he calms down afterward :) Del was being a bit naughty a couple of weeks a go on the start of our walks (just being very unfocused and silly) so I took her back home. I only had to do it twice and she got the idea. I find Del is very much a dog that needs those sorts of boundaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I just hate having to be the bad guy and he looks so confused and sad when I have to get the mean mummy out the cupboard. Then I get home and feel awful for the rest of the day. We are such a tragic pair of nutters. Note to self....do not get a naughty dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Remember, you're not being a mean mummy, you are providing clear boundaries :) I did recallers this year, and one of the most beneficial things I got out of it was how to apply consequences. Not yelling or anything physical, just consequences that involved missing out on the fun for a minute. Having said that, I think some dogs are even too soft for that. Digby was too soft for consequences, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Stella has been having a really rough time the last 5 days. I darned if I know why apart from a full moon, as weird as that sounds. I have always noticed her change around this time. When she wasn't on meds for Epilepsy she was much more likely to have a seizure then as well. She is not sleeping at night of late = No sleep for me Day 6 today, so I'm a walking sleep deprived Zombie. During the day her anxiety levels are way up again She has been back to her hearing a noise 3 doors up, running & whining, agitated & panicking. Eye's darting everywhere She was going so well too. Does my head in wondering what triggers her to regress as she does. I don't know if Prozac is working for her or maybe I need to increase it. She is on half a 20mg tab once a day but she was prescribed 1 tab. I did up it to 1 tab but didn't notice any difference really but maybe I should have tried it for a bit longer. ERRRR so darn upsetting really. Terrible to see her so stressed. She is much more reactive to some other dogs as well atm so we are back on a long line most of the time when we are out walking. Poor sweet girl So wish she could just tell me whats up...then I could fix her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Maybe it is the moon. There doesn't seem to be a standard approach to Prozac does there. Jake was prescribed 11/2 tablets, I have him down to one because he was a bit spacey on that much. He just seems to be having episodes where he goes completely hysterical in a flash, I've had to lift his front feet off the ground to immobilize him which is awful but otherwise he gets up a real head of steam and I risk falling over as he can throw himself around quite violently. Most times I can head him off and you can see him thinking and he can sit and lick and remain thinking. Three times this week though he's just gone straight into crazy, once he's subdued then he starts doing what he is supposed to, sitting and looking after the dog and back to me. That's when I get confused because he's got his brain back and doing the right thing but only after he's gone nuts..... So do I reward or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I'm finding the exact same thing with Prozac HD. I really am not sure whether it is actually benefiting Stella or not to be honest & am really tempted to take her off it & leave her on Xanax which she does well on. The only reason I tried Prozac was my Vet suggested it. I just can't see enough improvement to leave her on it. Also Xanax is suppose to be used if there is a thunderstorm or something, a one off type thing but Stella has half a tab. twice a day & she seems to be at her best on this. Jake sounds like Stel. He goes well for a while then has a complete flip out. It's like riding a rollacoaster isn't it HD? Just when you think you have a handle on them, they have a breakdown & you are back to square one again. Stella slept through the night without waking once so I feel half human today. She was so happy with herself too. She is such a happy girl most of the time. She always looks a lot at me & smiles. Sweet little miss These phobias/reactivity type behaviour disorders must take it's toll on her mind & body one would think. She must be exhausted most of the time. Anyway will see how our outing goes today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Yep just had a tantrum at an imaginary dog. He hasn't done that for ages so meds are going up or I'm having them. I wonder if Stella not sleeping makes her more nervy. I know I am more on edge if I don't sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Yes Hankdog, I believe her sleepless nights most certainly effects her reactivity & definitely makes her much more nervous. It's a vicious circle, a rough night with little sleep = starts the day in a heightened state of arousal= much more reactive= even higher state of arousal= no sleep & so on. One emotion is literally feeding the other. Then she either collaspes with mental exhaustion or goes into her own little world, eyes glazed & just runs blind if I allowed her to. Or she will just lay or sit in the backyard away with the fairies. I think that this state of mental shutdown is when she just can't cope anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 When Jake having one of his tantrums it's exactly like he's blind. Today when there wasn't a dog I just let him bark to see what would happen. He kept going for ages getting more wound up until I stopped him. Then he looked really confused. I gave him an extra half a tablet when I got home. He's slept most of the day and it's training tomorrow. Strange dogs aren't they. He improved so much and when he snaps out of it he does what he's trained to but he's in his own world as you say when he has a tantrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Yes sounds so similar in some aspects. The whole 'blind'thing. You cant reach them can you in that heightened state of arousal can you. I really try to keep Stella under that but she is very unpredictable. Somedays what doesn't set her off, the very next day she will react to & will go into that blind state in a split second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canisbellum Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Jonah was attacked out of the blue by a Doberman while minding his own business. He had several small bite marks but its put him back about a year in his progress. Needless to say I am seriously pissed off about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 God I have so much sympathy for guys, and so appreciate how good I have it with my guys. Quinn's in season at the moment so rather than going to the off leash park or just walking around the neighbourhood I have been taking them to the central town (on lead) park for the last few days. So far we've had two off leash dogs come over to us. The first was a little one that I've seen there off leash before so as he approached with his owner calling in vain I was slightly evil and, knowing my guys would be fine with it but would make a lot of excited noise, I just stood still and waited for him to get there. The woman was pretty freaked out by the noise and Quinn jumping around (she was play bowing but weirdly coz she was on the leash and I was holding her back a bit). She was very apologetic and put the lead on after that. Maybe she'll learn a lesson. Today was a black lab x, I was feeling more generous and the dog seemed nice, although again was ignoring his owner calling him, so I used it as practice to keep my dogs focussed on me and calm for the greeting. Again, I hope maybe the owner realised his dog wasn't as reliable as he thought. I've been lucky not to have many problems with loose dogs during on lead walks (although we do off leash parks more often) but each time I experience it I think of all those trying to work with or just exercise their reactive dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dididog Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Was really proud of Didi last night, she handled a stand for examination with a trainer she'd only just met (and a male too) and was perfect (well not technically but perfect for me). I don't think anyone got why I was so happy when she broke her stand to follow the trainer for more pats but for me it was a great marker of progress going back to when her reactivity was at its worse and the mere act of a trainer walking up to us made her react in fear. She's still got a way to go and I don't even consider taking her out of relatively quiet and controlled areas but still super happy :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yay Didi! Well done for all the work you've been doing with her Terri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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