Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[JulesP]

Hair spray is supposed to be nasty for humans but not super harmful so I assume the same for dogs.

[kayla1]

I've never tried taking a spray bottle, but I can remember a few situations with charging dogs where the citronella spray would have come in handy. It would have to be small enough to fit in a pocket so it's easy to get to when needed. Though sometimes, despite being aware of surroundings and keeping watch for wandering dogs, it can happen so quickly with little time to react.

I've tried throwing treats, but in most cases when I have done this, the charging dog has been so intent on getting to mine that it's not the slightest bit interested in food.

[megan_]

You can get small cans from amazon. They don't stop truly aggressive dogs though - even pepper spray doesn't always work.

There is a great bog post on dogsinneedofspace.com - ill try to find it.

[sheena]

With any sort of spray repellent, I would imagine that you would have make sure you were on the right side of the wind, or it could just blow back in your face or your own dogs Have you ever thought of a hand held ultrasonic device, like the Dazer. It will also make your own dogs run for cover but at least it doesn't hurt them & is good at defusing a bad situation.

[megan_]

Of you get one made for repelling figs the nozzle is rally powerful

[sheena]

Of you get one made for repelling figs the nozzle is rally powerful

Megan....have you been drinking

[JulesP]

Of you get one made for repelling figs the nozzle is rally powerful

Megan....have you been drinking

I am assuming her phone got her....

[megan_]

It was my iPhone!!! Promise ladies!!!!

[sheena]

@ Megan

With any sort of spray repellent, I would imagine that you would have make sure you were on the right side of the wind, or it could just blow back in your face or your own dogs Have you ever thought of a hand held ultrasonic device, like the Dazer. It will also make your own dogs run for cover but at least it doesn't hurt them & is good at defusing a bad situation.

Yeah, you'd have to be careful if it was windy but on an average day I think you'd be okay with the citronella spray as the nozzle is designed to spray up to 10 feet so shouldn't disperse in the wind as easily as something like hairspray. The citronella also doesn't cause any pain for the dog so even if it did blow back on you, it won't do any damage besides being a bit unpleasant for your dog. I'd be really concerned about using something like the Dazer on a dog because it's guaranteed that it will also have an effect on your own dog (when you'd have to be fairly unlucky for the citronella spray to blow back on your dog) and for a reactive dog, it may well cause them to associate the effects of the Dazer with other dogs and increase their reactivity next time they see a dog. I don't think I'd be prepared to take that risk with all the hard work we're doing to overcome his reactivity.

Yeah....Megan....we all blame our IPhones I know what you mean Snook. I was really meaning to carry one for really bad situations, for instance, I live in the country & have encountered, not too often, dingos & wild dogs who would rip your dog to bits, given half the chance. Good if the citronella spray is more of a stream rather than a spray, then you could direct it at the dog. Where do you get it from ??

[gila]

Ok I think I better stop lurking around in this thread and join in! My boy Spence isn't particularly bad, he only reacts to off-lead dogs after being rushed at several times over the years. He knows leashed dogs can't get to him and ignores them with a snooty "you are unworthy of my attention" look on his face :laugh:

His reaction to off-lead dogs has escalated a bit over the last year - staring, ears and tail up, hackles up, growling. I don't mind him telling a dog to bugger off if it gets in his face, but don't want him to anticipate an approach and get defensive.

After reading this thread I took him out yesterday intending to practise LAT. Gorgeous day in Melb and I expected heaps of dogs to be around. Nope. A few being walked on lead. Two dogs off-lead but the owners put them back on lead when they saw us coming. Which is awesome, but only gave us a few seconds to play LAT :laugh:

I'm also re-conditioning the muzzle. I didn't do it right the first time and Spence ended up not liking it very much.

Welcome to the thread gila. :)

Yeah, it can be hard to find opportunities for LAT especially if you really need the dogs to be off leash for Spencer. If you get really stuck you could try what I did with Justice and stand outside a fenced dog park where he can still see the dogs running off leash but there's no risk of them getting to him. Just don't be as stupid as me and actually set foot inside the park!

Good luck with conditioning the muzzle. I imagine it takes a bit for dogs to get used to them. Does he need the muzzle because you're scared he might hurt another dog or is it more to ease the stress on both of you so you can relax and not have to worry as much if dog does barrel up to you? Both are perfectly good reasons for using a muzzle, I was just curious since it didn't sound from your description like Spencer's actually going after dogs to hurt them.

Thanks Snook. Unfortunately we don't have any dog parks around here, only general use parks where dogs are allowed off leash. And I've had no luck finding any off leash dogs this week. Murphy's law I guess :laugh:

The muzzle is an effort to get people to keep their dogs away from Spence. It's a pretty obvious warning to all those "It's ok, she/he's friendly" people that Spence isn't 'friendly'. I could have used it the other week when a lady let her dog run up to Spencer. I stepped in front to block the dog; Lady: she's friendly!. Spence: GROWL. Lady: Oh.

[kayla1]

Is the Spray Shield just point and spray? So no lids or other fiddly things to slow you down if you need to use it quickly against a charging dog?

ETA because I can be a bit uncoordinated when trying to hold everything, and remember the training, and deal with a charging dog all at the same time.

Edited September 15, 2012 by kayla1

[hankdog]

I've heard about red and yellow striped leads that declared dangerous dogs have to wear. I don't know what the legal ramifications are, since I tell everyone I can that jake is reactive if there was an incident and it got to court it would be pretty useless me denying it anyway. I can't find them anywhere so I'm considering just buying a yellow one and doctoring it with a permanent market, If jake sees a dog he goes off so no one really approaches us in that state but occasionally someone gets up behind us quietly or there's always the off leashers with owners who can't be bothered to run and get them. Whenever they yell don't worry he's friendly I always want to yell back something facetious like oh which part of him tastes good or so he wont mind being bitten! No one could possibly miss the fact that jake isn't. We have had a really good week though, I've found a few hidey holes to train in, in the garden he doesn't really pull so I need him to be out to be actually getting used to his collar. I have worked out a system where I attach his harness to my waist and collar to hands so in a dog situation I can switch to the harness, if I use the collar it just increases his reaction. If I have both in my hands I tend to rather use the harness because whilst I completely agree he needs an aversive collar I really don't like using it. From about midweek he has visibly started checking himself when you give him the voice command which is great, with all the other things I tried I don't think he ever understood what I was asking him. I think if a dog hasn't learned early on the concept of do what a person tells you and you get a reward then it's quite hard to get that in later, and he is so excited to be out that anything he learns in a garden situation just gets lost. He only barely pays attention to the collar out whereas he doesn't really need any corrections at home so it's quite hard to bridge that gap. Weekends are a nightmare for walking normally but yesterday I drove him to an office park/ mini factory complex about twenty minutes away. it was great, it's been beautifully landscaped and is surrounded by bush so all the water features where teaming with water dragons. Lovely wide paths, lots of benches to practice urban agility and since it's miles away from suburbia no dogs and not the danger of a fence barker. I must have been super relaxed because he even played his food game a few times and whereas I still need to throw in left and right turns normally to slow him down we managed to just walk in straight lines. The bad news is the calm supplement he is having is working, whilst that's good in that he is more bouncy and looks like he's having fun and starting to play he is also more barky and active. Even after a 90 minute walk yesterday he had about and hour of quiet at home and then was back bothering me for another walk! He is becoming quite like I remember my kids at 2 and wants to see, sit on or have a chew on whatever I'm working on.

Edited September 16, 2012 by hankdog

[chuckandsteve]

Thanks for all the ideas. I think we will stick with water just because I worry about the owners going off when I spray their dog.

I also got a thunder shirt for him. OMG it does miricles. Stood only 1.5m away from dog next to us and my dog kept his focus 95% of the time even times when the other dog was barking and carrying on.

[megan_]

That's great news Snook. Good luck in the group classes.

[hankdog]

I have Saaba envy!!!

[megan_]

Well the universe slapped us down a peg or two this weekend...

First up, we had to go to a compulsory obedience class as part of the requirement to do agility at the new club (I missed the initial one so needed to make it up). At this club they give reactive/shy dogs a bright yellow vest with "PLEASE GIVE ME SPACE" printed on it. I thought this was perfect! I always hang around the edges so that people don't need to move out of our way but I was approached by a woman wanting to give Lucy a hug, even though she had her vest on. She caught me off guard and her face was in Lucy's face by the time I realised what was happening (hard to describe but she was walking past and then suddenly lunged for Lucy!). "Ooooh, poor little dear" she cooed. I immediately blocker her and said (trying to stay calm, but really, really p*ssed off)" "Her vest says she needs space. Leave her alone". So I got an eye roll and she retreated. Bloody idiot.

I wish things got better from there but they didn't. We then had to go past the main club house (running the gauntlet) and into a small room. The instructor was nice and gave us a seat away from everyone, but the room was tiny and they were doing work next door so things were constantly banging. Poor Lucy was scared . She was still calm enough to eat and I just continually got her to do simple things and fed her but I let her down - I should have just walked out and left. I only stayed because it is a prerequisite of doing agility and the agility class is fantastic for her (no dogs say hello at agility, people are there to work not faff around).

A woman had her two kids with her and when we moved outside to exercise one boy tried to touch Lucy a few times. He was a real little sh*t and would walk past, looking away and then make his move. After the second time I knew it was intentional and I told him that he had to stay away from us. He got the message finally and left us alone. Even with her vest on people still tried to get their dogs to say hello. WTF is wrong with people? I wasn't' standing in the middle of the group, I was off to the side. I think so many people have no control over their dog, he's "friendly" and so they let their dog pull them over to say hi, rather than admitting that they have a problem.

The club is actually really nice and progressive but it isn't really set up with dogs with issues and is just validated my theory about large obedience clubs (ie I'd never take my dog to one, even my friendly boy, it is too much chaos). At agility, most people have control over their dogs before they start, but obedience clubs seem to be full of adolescent dogs that overwhelm their owners and pull them over to say "hi" to everyone. And yet my well behaved, focused dog is the one with a problem! At agility, people seem to focus more on their dogs and working with them, rather than treating it as a social occasion. I might write to the club letting them know that the intro class isn't really suitable for dogs with issues and make some positive suggestions re: how they can be included safely - I just don't want to be a trouble maker and get us kicked out of agility!

Then this morning, when we were on our walk, I heard a big commotion behind us. 15m away was a huge GSD, thrashing about, straining to get to us. His owner was struggling to hold onto the leash. We were on a narrow path on a busy road. What does the owner do? Walk in the other direction? Give us a warning? No! She walks straight towards us with this large, out of control dog. Fortunately there was a break in the traffic, "quick, quick" we got across the road and changed directions (ie walking towards the dog, but I did this so we'd pass quickly rather than walk in parallel). I didn't want to stop or slow down for LAT, so I just talked to them "Good Lucy. Good Fergus. It's okay!". Lucy stared a bit (understandable when a dog is trying to get at you) but quickly redirected. No growling! Lots of praise and we continued on our walk. 50m from home we came across an off leash dog, did a U-turn and then traced back out walk so we didn't have to cross paths with it (bonus for dogs and I is that we got extra exercise).

Still p'd off at the GSD owner for not turning around. Not only did this endanger my dogs, but it just rewards her dog for carrying on. Still, on the bright side my pack handled it well even though the adrenaline was really pumping.

[JulesP]

Why don't you do agility with Lucy at Croydon?

I avoided a nasty incident on Saturday. Was walking the dogs at Lilydale Lake. One off lead bit was dog free as normal, all good. The other one had too many dogs for my liking so I didn't go down. I felt like a mean mum but sorry doggies. As I was walking past a GSD attacked a GR. Took a while for the GSD owner to grab it. She then proceeded to lay into the dog I was too far away to do anything. Reinforces my loathing of off lead areas.

[megan_]

I'm going to try her out there, however there is one dog that constantly runs around and doesn't listen to her owner and has caused a few tiffs. Lucy wouldn't react well to having that dog in her face, especially since the other dog is a bit growly. Lucy is fine off leash, works well and focuses on me but doesn't like being greated by randoms! I'll speak to Susan about it and ask that Lucy never gets put in a class with this dog. If that isn't possible then we'd have to give it a miss. That said I work Lucy around the club house for about 20 mins before Fergus' class and she copes really well.

The Frankston agility class is a lot smaller and quieter which suits her and the instructor always seems to notice if a dog is staring etc and tells their owner to get their attention to avoid a fight. It is just the obedience class that really rattled us.

[sheena]

At a trial on the weekend, we were sitting waiting for the presentation with our two border collies sitting nicely at our feet & a lady was sitting near by with a very tiny SWF on her lap. We didn't know her or her dog. So what does the stupid lady do, she takes the SWF off her lap & puts him on the ground right at the feet of my two BC's who she didn't know from a bar of soap. It only took a couple of seconds for the SWF to lunge & of course my two reacted back....no-one was hurt, because we had a good hold on our two. She did apologise, but geeze, some people are thick.

[chuckandsteve]

Other owners really are the challenge for reactive dog owners.

We ran into the MIL of the pug my staffy snapped at the other week. She proceeded to tell us about the Rottweiler that had attacked her DILs pug how it had the pugs entire head in its mouth and was shaking it but the pug was unhurt!?!?!

Followed by both my husbands and my plank faces and my husband saying it was unbelievable a pug wouldn't have been hurt by that, she then said the pug was off lead and chasing said rottweiler but still wanted to find the Rottweiler.

So I guess they still feel the should allow their pug to run free and attack other people's dogs.

I guess I should have reported it to the council as how the story has changed from what actually happened.