Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[Skye GSD]

Good job BC Crazy. All our dogs are a "work in progress" and sometimes it takes a lot longer than we envisage but each step forward is a huge milestone. If someone had told me it would take 12 months to get back in to a training class I wouldn't have believed them. But following the steps that Steve Courtney gave me we have achieved that goal and I still have to pinch myself - I am so proud of my girl. I actually used to go looking for other dogs so we could use them as training sessions and to begin with it meant me taking a huge breath, calming myself and thinking positive thoughts! Gradually we worked up to going to a local training club and training on the fringes with no interaction with other dogs. Armed with my tug toys and flirt pole people must have wondered what this mad woman was doing but I deliberately kept my distance and worked hard on getting Skye's focus on me. From a dog that was not food driven and I could not even get food near her in a group situation, we are now training with food and tug in a class so I am rapt. Don't get me wrong - Skye can still be reactive if given the "eye" by another dog but a stern "leave it" and we are back to focus.

To Hankdog - I understand where you are coming from and your situation is different from my experience so I take my hat off to you for searching for answers. I believe there is no text book answer to a dog's problem and sometimes you have to tweak,add or delete certain criteria to fit your own situation. I am extremely lucky in that I found an awesome behaviourist who believed in me and my dog but that is not to say that the methods I have used will work for anyone else. I am also fortunate enough to have joined a new club in Perth that understands reactive dogs and is closely aligned to the work I am doing with Steve so I am rapt.

[BC Crazy]

Thank's Skye GSD. Your so right when you say they are all a 'work in progress'. I sometimes think Stella is, in the scheme of things so far behind with her training when I see how well some other dogs her age

are going but then again they are all individuals & she is not the type of dog you can rush or push as she will just 'shut down', so we move to the next thing only when she is comfortable.

So even the smallest achievements are milestones aren't they? Skye has come such a long way, you must be over the moon, well done

Had to edit this post as I was asking you about where you purchased the Flirt pole from but I found them on the K9 Pro web site. I am going to buy 2. Nice video of Skye & yourself. OMG Skye is beautiful & she

loves that Flirt pole. Don't know whether to get the cloth rag ended one or the coloured one. They look like lots of fun though.

Edited July 21, 2012 by BC Crazy

[nawnim]

I would be concerned that the running away is feeding your dogs insecurities and if you came across a loose dog that has prey drive, it would initiate a chase. Skye is reactive and prey-driven and over the last twelve months we have worked hard on this problem with so much success that we are now back in to training in a class situation. We could not walk past dogs without her lunging and barking, even if the dog was across the other side of the oval. To desensitise her reaction to fence runners I would use them as training sessions and show her that I was in control of the situation with a "leave it" command and heaps of praise. Take your dogs favourite toy or food treats and use them as rewards. I know that our first reaction is to run from a scary encounter but I personally believe our dogs need to know that they can count on us to protect them and if we can project calmness and confidence then it will project on to our dogs. To turn and walk calmly away would be more beneficial to your dog than running - but that is just my experience with my dog.

I have been following this thread with great interest & I too have found that this method you use with Skye is really working for Stella & myself. I am seeing real improvement with her using the "leave it" command when

approaching/passing other dogs. She used to go off her nut, lunging, growling & barking but now she is much more settled usually. If she does happen to get upset, she settles much more quickly than she used to. I used to avoid

anything that I thought would set her off but when I thought about it all I was doing was feeding her fear so I had to get more confident & tackle some of these situations as her reactions used to really unnerve me & I think in

turn making her panic more.So we have been off walking & see an approaching dog on a lead, I just act like it's all o.k. & keep going at a steady pace & I actually find she is looking up at me for direction,I ask her to "leave

it" I then treat / praise if she is behaving & the dog has passed us & then we continue on. I am also making sure I take a deep breath, walk confidently & be calm. We aren't ready for any class training just yet but I am hoping

some day we may be :)

Hi I did post earlier in this thread about my reactive dog Paddy. These days I am doing

what BC Crazy is doing and it is working well. We just keep walking when we see another dog on lead and I try to ignore my dog's reactiveness and it is working. Sometimes I say 'leave' depending on how much he is reacting. If I see a loose dog I do a U-turn and get out of there as fast as I can without alarming my dog. I am happy with his progress.

Edited July 21, 2012 by padraic

[Skye GSD]

BC Crazy - pleased you saw Skye in action. She just loves the flirt pole and it is a fantastic tool for utilising your dog's drive or just for having fun - not to mention the excercise they get from it. Don't worry about where you are in terms of training in comparison to others. Skye is three next week so we are way behind but what we are achieving in terms of focus and execution now is fantastic. My main goal was to get her reactiveness sorted so she could concentrate on what I was trying to teach her and she is progressing in leaps & bounds. Today at training we watched dogs & handlers who were where we were even six months ago and Skye was the poster girl - so calm & focused. So it doesn't happen in a week, a month or even several months but with a committed effort and small steps it is totally achievable.

Padriac - good for you. Reading your comment took me back to the beginning of our training and I remember those days so well only others used to do U-turns as soon as they saw us because Skye was so vocal!! I couldn't stop and have a conversation with anyone and people crossed the street to avoid us. So you can imagine what they thought when I started my training and would actually stalk them to practise the steps I was doing I now have the complete opposite reaction and the comments I get re my well-behaved dog has made our journey so worthwhile.

[ChristineX]

Just an update on Duke - we finished another reactive rover class this afternoon, but I needed the loo. Bad mistake - because all the fluffybums and ankle biters came out in force! (Duke's scared of the littlies - he still thinks they are stuffed toys so why are they smelling and sounding like real dogs?) And of course, we got aggressively rushed by a pair of tenterfields. I think you could have heard Duke's hysteria a couple of kilometres away easily. And then, driving out, there were a pair of small fluffies (mostly white, which is a Duke Danger colour) and I think I have lost a bit more hearing (thank you Duke).

One day, not even these will bother the Duke. It might take me another couple of years, though.

[hankdog]

Thought I'd add a Jake story just for a laugh. He has ongoing allergy problems, apparently standard with a billdog. So on Friday the vet changed to a new dry kibble and nothing else, no chicken treats, at all. So I use a lot of treats for everything including toileting last thing at night, one to go out, one to go down steps and one after he's done. He has spent most of the day sulking without treats, he eats the kibble in his bowl but won't take it from my hand. So comes toilet time, we make it out the door but he refuses to go down the stairs, after 10 minutes I carry him down, he bolts straight back up, I wait 20 minutes and he just won't budge despite the carefully laid kibble trail. It's cold so I give up. On my way to the shower I think I see him in my bedroom but since we're not talking I ignore him. I go to tuck him in later which normally gets me a nice hand lick but no, still ignoring me, so I go to jump in bed and guess where the little monster has had a pee.... in my bed.

So comes first dog today on our walk, which was luckily a blond labrador, he spits out all the kibble but not too much nonsense. Little bit later we get in a dog sandwich with 2 white fluffies and a loud boxer, as will happen when you are out of ideas, so I gave up picked him up and carried him out of there. He will strangely consent to be carried quietly, I think he gets embarrassed and stops drawing attention to himself.

So tomorrow chicken is back on because that's just the way it is.

Edited July 22, 2012 by hankdog

[nawnim]

Hi Hankdog. My two bobs worth. It sounds as if your dog is in charge. My dogs are not allowed on my bed, and if my dogs don't like the food I provide they go hungry (up to a point.) They get fed once a day outside and in bowls on the ground. I do use food for training but it has to be earned. It is not a bribe or a lure; it is a reward. I encourage with my voice and enthusiastic body language.

I'm assuming your dog is a bulldog. You must be much stronger than I am. No way would i be carrying my dog unless it was injured. :)

Edited July 23, 2012 by padraic

[nawnim]

Hi all

It's not that I want to brag (well just a little) but I have just taken my boy, Paddy, to the vet for his annual shots and in the waiting room he was a model canine citizen. Also this morning at the off-lead park we met a dog very similar to the one that attacked him. At first he was stiff legged and keeping his distance but when the other dog ignored him, my dog just got on with what he was doing.

I think I have been lucky in that my dog has only recently become reactive, and he has always been good off lead, so his reactivity was a mild case so to speak. I also think it has been important that I have put a lot of his reactivity down to my own anxiety. We all want to keep our dogs safe, and I was worried for a bit. Now if he shows any reactivity I just say "Don't be silly," and laugh gently at him, so that now he knows I am okay with whatever is happening and he takes his cue from me. I think I can now claim that my dog is no longer reactive.

So there is light at the end of the tunnel. Keep up your good work all of you. One day your dogs will be okay too. Also I have found this thread very helpful. So thankyou all. I have also learnt tolerance of other people's reactive dogs (which I didn't have before) and I will always keep away if we meet, but at the same time give you a charming smile which will hopefully indicate that I don't disapprove of you or Fido.

[hankdog]

I'm glad to know Justice did this bed wet thing too, I was completely dumbfounded, it wasn't and accident because he had to walk up a flight of stairs and he had just been outside. No I'm not firm, after trying to do without treats for 2 days I realise just how much I bribe him, treats for face wash, treats for foot wash, treats to go out and pee, treats to pay me attention when walking, treats if by chance you heel decently for 100m... the list is endless. Would not have believed I would have got to this point, all my previous dogs have been trained on a "atta boy", and dare I say it a choke chain in one case and a halti in another. (Choke chain was 20 years ago).

I am amazed at how people just assume they can let their dog randomly approach other dogs but then I have to admit that 5 months ago I too would probably happily have assumed that all dogs were friendly so I try to be tolerant, but yes a lot of the time I find myself thinking if all dogs just obeyed the rules life would be so much easier for reactive dogs.

You are so lucky (plus a lot of work) Padriac. Its lovely when dogs can interact, every afternoon there's a wild ball game up the road at the off leash park and I just know Jake would love to race around and rough it if he could. I wonder how many of our dogs have been "created" by one unfortunate incident. But please brag away it does give me hope. No I'm not that strong but I sort of sling him over my shoulder and he hangs on like a kid, funny thing is he immeadiately goes quiet but I try not to do it often because its a struggle and if I go down it would be ugly.

Edited July 23, 2012 by hankdog

[nawnim]

I'm glad to know Justice did this bed wet thing too, I was completely dumbfounded, it wasn't and accident because he had to walk up a flight of stairs and he had just been outside. No I'm not firm, after trying to do without treats for 2 days I realise just how much I bribe him, treats for face wash, treats for foot wash, treats to go out and pee, treats to pay me attention when walking, treats if by chance you heel decently for 100m... the list is endless. Would not have believed I would have got to this point, all my previous dogs have been trained on a "atta boy", and dare I say it a choke chain in one case and a halti in another. (Choke chain was 20 years ago).

I am amazed at how people just assume they can let their dog randomly approach other dogs but then I have to admit that 5 months ago I too would probably happily have assumed that all dogs were friendly so I try to be tolerant, but yes a lot of the time I find myself thinking if all dogs just obeyed the rules life would be so much easier for reactive dogs.

You are so lucky (plus a lot of work) Padriac. Its lovely when dogs can interact, every afternoon there's a wild ball game up the road at the off leash park and I just know Jake would love to race around and rough it if he could. I wonder how many of our dogs have been "created" by one unfortunate incident. But please brag away it does give me hope. No I'm not that strong but I sort of sling him over my shoulder and he hangs on like a kid, funny thing is he immeadiately goes quiet but I try not to do it often because its a struggle and if I go down it would be ugly.

Hang in there Hankdog. You can make it too.

[hankdog]

Ok I have a lovely image of a dog silently laughing whilst he cuddles on the couch because he knows what he's done in your bed I've been reading textfromdog on tumblr and I thought it was a joke, well good to laugh once in a while. I shall guard my couch spot because he has been trying to steal the front seat in the car. I have a minivan and he rides in the back, my daughter in the front, he's not allowed to jump in because I don't want him scratching the paint so he sits and waits to be lifted in, last few days he's tried to sit at the front door and we've been laughing at how it's like the kids when they were young fighting over the front seat. When we first got him his feet were badly infected so it was a 2 person job to wash them and probably quite painful for him. It will be an ongoing daily procedure for him so now what I do is get all the gear out and place it on the floor, I allow him to see me cut up chicken, then I sit on the floor with one piece of chicken and wait. I rarely wait more than a few minutes anymore before he gives in, he sits one end of the room and just stares then kind of slinks over and then he is quite manageable, one piece as reward for each co-operative foot. Each foot is shampooed and then dipped so it's not easy if he fights. Going out at night he has a routine, so he runs out the door and sits for his treat, then stairs, then grass. I can't really decide but it's sort of bribery, I used to laugh at people with treat bags but now I'm like the super dog treat-dispenser, how did this happen

[Smartypaws]

It is worth checking out every off leash place near you. I found an oval right near my house that is very quiet. Think I've seen another dog there once.

I found a huge dog park near us that is floodlit at night!! I take my nervy dog there at 7-8pm and we have the place to ourselves. It has been a godsend to be able to give him the physical exercise he needs as a young high energy dog.

[BC Crazy]

WOW Smartypaws, you are very lucky to have access to a leash free alone & good on you for seeking that out.

I so wish we had a facility in our area :)

Edited July 25, 2012 by BC Crazy

[Smartypaws]

WOW Smartypaws, you are very lucky to have access to a leash free alone & good on you for seeking that out.

I so wish we had a facility in our area :)

It is a recent find and yes, we are VERY lucky! It provides a break from leash walks which are exhausting for me (and unpleasant for him I am sure) as we spend the entire walk doing counter conditioning and keeping focus on me rather than the many things that upset him in the environment. I came across it quite by chance one evening while dropping some DVDs back and driving there a different route. :D Shame there isn't anything in your area BC Crazy.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Smartypaws

[Wobbly]

One thing that I have found useful against errant off leash dogs rushing you is to carry a water pistol and squirt the miscreants. Serial offenders will very quickly learn to recognise the flash of bright plastic water pistol and beat a hasty retreat when they see you coming. :D

[BC Crazy]

Thats a great idea Wobbly. I must say that is my biggest fear when out & about is off leash aggressive dogs rushing at me. I am terrified

So I am putting a water pistol on the shopping list. Thank you for sharing :)

[Wobbly]

You're welcome BC Crazy.

I'm not sure it would be a good enough deterrent for a really aggressive dog rushing you, I wouldn't rely on it in that case. But for dogs that are ill mannered it works wonders.

Also it's pretty funny, so you'll likely be laughing as the other dogs runs away as fast as it's legs can carry it, and for your fear aggressive dogs to see you laughing as another dog bolts away is probably a really good message to be sending to your own dog.

[Aidan3]

Her dog is getting to work closely with the trainer's dogs who are essentially therapy dogs for dogs and are teaching her dog good canine communication.

That sounds good. My old boy Django was awesome at this, there are a lot of dogs who wouldn't have been able to interact with other dogs without Django being that first step.

My new dog is turning out to be similar, but in a different way. I haven't quite figured out how he will fill this role, but he's managed to bring a couple around now.

If the trainer knows what they are doing, respects both dogs fully, and isn't determined to make something happen; something just might happen. It can be a good way to work. Once you get a bit of momentum, you can move things along a bit.

[Aidan3]

Her dog is getting to work closely with the trainer's dogs who are essentially therapy dogs for dogs and are teaching her dog good canine communication.

That sounds good. My old boy Django was awesome at this, there are a lot of dogs who wouldn't have been able to interact with other dogs without Django being that first step.

My new dog is turning out to be similar, but in a different way. I haven't quite figured out how he will fill this role, but he's managed to bring a couple around now.

If the trainer knows what they are doing, respects both dogs fully, and isn't determined to make something happen; something just might happen. It can be a good way to work. Once you get a bit of momentum, you can move things along a bit.

Aside from some of the other issues I mentioned with the socialisation classes a really big one is that it doesn't teach Justice how to communicate properly with other dogs.

That's so important. That's why I cringe when I hear about people correcting the most basic communication amongst dogs just because it scares them (the owner... or the trainer in some cases). My previous GSD had a lot of freedom partly because if she told a dog to back off, there was no question about it. I didn't care if it upset anyone, none of the dogs were ever upset by it and no-one was going to be hurt so long as they weren't completely socially illiterate. Of course, there are socially illiterate dogs out there, and for the safety of those dogs, I had a bomb-proof recall :laugh:

[megan_]

I've used Cosmolo's dogs for that purpose Snook - pity you're in Adelaide. She now stays over at their house when I have visitors stay over (fear aggressive and territorial aren't a good mix when my niece and nephews come to stay) and is happy and comfortable there. Cosmolo's dogs are a dream team when it comes to teaching other dogs. They are all well trained and stable, which makes all the difference.

It has helped build confidence in both of us - she gets to see that not all dogs want to jump on her head, and I get to see that she can greet a dog appropriately. I've also attended their basic obedience classes even though Lucy is way beyond that level. This way, she gets to work around me with naughty, distracting dogs and puppies who are safely on leash.

Cosmolo ran a practical workshop on dog interactions that I took Lucy to. Even though I consider myself well-versed in dog body-language, I found it informative. Lucy worked really well and when overwhelmed deferred to me (which is a good thing, but I need to build on her "I can look at other dogs and everything will be okay" skills too).

I even took her to an agility foundation class try-out in a small enclosed horse arena with 35+ dogs and she worked really, really well for almost 2 hours! Her tail wagged in a nice relaxed manner, she focused and even did off leash stays right next to strangers. The place was very noisy and busy with people walking around all the time. This simply wouldn't have happened 6 months ago - she would have shut down. While she didn't make the cut (they only select 10) she passed my test with flying colours.

ETA: Given the results we've had, I'm going to step things up and I've enrolled her at a school that has lots and lots of dogs (Croydon Obedience). It's not that I want her to learn lots of obedience, but it will do her good to work around so many dogs and strange people. I took her for a little look-see on Sunday and she walked around nicely, not the least bit fussed by all the people and noise.

I also need to work on the territorial thing. It has gotten much worse since my sister stayed with us for 3 months. They had to be physically separated otherwise Lucy would go on the attack. It hasn't been something that I've focused on because my priority has been being able to take her out in the community safely (happy with this now, has to be managed but we'll keep on trucking) and I just crate her when I get visitors.

Edited August 7, 2012 by megan_