Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[megan_]

Sorry you had to go through that hankdog. They can be little sh!ts some days, can' they? Remember when they're having a bad day/have had a bad experience and you know they are going to be little sh!ts, then you can give yourself a break and not take them on a walk. Remember to look after yourself and if Hank doesn't get his two walks a day he'll live. In the blog that Leema posted there is a post titled "Treat Yo Self" - it is well worth a read.

For what it's worth, when they throw a tanty (and I'm lucky, I can't remember the last time they did this when out and about) I personally would have just stand there, look away and not say a thing. Sometimes negative attention is still attention and they like it. Also, I don't ask mine to do something when I'm pretty sure they won't - it just gives them an opportunity to give you the finger.

Two can play his game - it reminds me of - I've just forgotten her name, is is Karen Proyor or someone else? - the "don't wanna, don't hafta" game. You don't want to go on a nice walk, Hank? You don't have to...but guess what your only choices are going on a nice walk or getting time out. If you chose not to go on a nice walk then you're choosing time out.

[Kavik]

megan

Susan Garrett's saying is don't wanna, don't hafta but it means something else entirely :) She often uses it when talking of rewards - eg dog doesn't want to tug when there is food around because the dog would rather have the food, or around other distractions. It is when the dog says I don't want to do this so I don't have to.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Kavik

[Kavik]

The thing I like about the method in Click to Calm is that you are not asking your dog for focus, the distraction becomes the trigger for automatic focus on you. It is still very important to keep under threshold and know your critical distance, but it means you are no longer continually asking or nagging trying to get their attention, but you let them look at the distraction and with correct conditioning should then look back at you for a click/treat.

[Kavik]

I haven't actually read the plan for Look at That but from what I have read on here, it sounds very similar :)

That's great that the vet has allowed you to practice there. When I started to take the behaviour out and about I started wtih dogs that were on the other side of the road, so that I knew there was no chance that the dogs could meet, that helped to keep me calm and concentrate on the training instead of stressing about what the other dog will do.

[megan_]

Have you tried it at home? I proofed mine there and then slowly built it up.

[Kavik]

First I would click for him looking at you - make that your default behaviour. Don't lure it or ask for it or talk to him, just any time he looks at you, click/treat. When you can walk around and he will instantly look at you when train him, and after click/treat will look again and again to get his reward, and it is automatic, then take it on the road.

[hankdog]

Fantastic idea Snook I've been trying to figure out where I can find a stationary quiet dog to practice on, vet clinic is a great idea for dogs under control. I've been really struggling to train the look excercise overiding all else Jake has major separation anxiety (he was separated in the pound from his mate) so unless he's looking at another dog in which case forget it or where he's going, he's looking at me. Still I've not been quite able to get the hang of it and last night my daughter was watching me try and said "which eye do you want him to look at you with." Doh!!! his eyes look in different directions so that's why I can't figure out when he's actually made eye contact.... hahaha.

[Kavik]

Yes you initially click for them looking at the other dog, but it helps to have a solid foundation of looking at you first. How close are you when you see the other dog and what do you do? I stop walking when I think the other dog nearby is going to be too stimulating to walk past and the lack of movement also becomes a cue for the dog.

[hankdog]

The problem with Jake is if he sees another dog he barks, doesn't matter how far or close. In fact he barks if a dog barks on TV. I used to feed him if I saw the dog first but then he started barking if I fed him. He remembers where he has been rushed at by other dogs, I didn't walk past a spot for 2 weeks and I had forgotten that was where we had been rushed at so just walked down the road from the opposite direction to what we normally do. He had been on a long walk, was knackered and strolling along very quietly, 2 houses away and bam head up, pulling looking around a couple of half barks.

He makes associations extra quick I've been training him to sit at cross streets for about 2 weeks, as usual no sign that he gets it and then suddenly last 2 days I don't really have to say sit anymore. I always cross the road to get away from dogs and there's no sit there, just a hurried exit. So yesterday when I got to the crossing a car pulled up and I stepped out quickly so as not to keep it waiting....Jake starts barking. I thought he must have seen a dog I didn't see so just hurried down the street. A bit later a similar thing happened...then it dawned on me he has figured out that if I quickly jump across the road there's a dog coming.

So to other triangle temptation users... I started this yesterday and either he's been trained on this before or the sit stay protocol we've been doing has been amazing. I find it difficult to read him, bulldog wrinkles are cute but not so expressive. Anyway I put the food about 3m away, as soon as I stood next to him he looked at me, the food and back at me. Yes ,ok you can have it but when I unleashed him he wouldn't go, just sat looking at me. So I walked him over to the food, he started eating and I turned to go inside, he left his food and came with me. I guess his high separation anxiety outweighs his food drive. This morning I put the food about a meter away, again he looked between me and the food and I told him he could have it, he's mega starving in the morning so took one step to it but then came back to sitting. I stepped to the bowl and dropped a treat in and then he started eating. So I don't want to rush him but since he will stay until I make it very clear he can have the food should I just start on making him wait say 30 seconds before he eats. He makes associations so quickly that I don't want to confuse the little guy.

[megan_]

hankdog- Steve is the best person to answer, but does he have a clear "mark and release" word? For my dogs, it is "yes". If I say yes, they know:

i) they've done the right thing and

ii) they are released to get the reward for doing the right thing

I also have a "marker only" word (you've done the right thing, but you have to keep on doing it until I release you" which is "good".

[hankdog]

Yes I think Jake reads me very easily, far more than I read him, but I guess underlying that is the fact that he is so eager to pick up on clues that show I have spotted another dog. He has a big bite scar on the side of his face that was pink when we got him in March but I notice has turned black now so that scar must have been acquired quite recently. Somewhere a few pages back SammieS wrote to the effect that her dog is happier once the pressure is off to meet other dogs and this articulated for me what I had felt about Jake.

He can ignore barking dogs that he knows can't get to him, I carry him into the vets and the other night had to carry him through a puppy class- no problem. What is quite telling is that I now walk with a long horse whip, not for Jake but so that I can scare away all the off-leash dogs on the street! So if I'm fearful of being attacked by others I guess he must be too.

[nawnim]

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Edited June 1, 2012 by padraic

[hankdog]

Argh, the scourge of off leash dogs. I can't say what to do with your dogs, I haven't figured that out yet but I have bought a bright yellow 80cm long horse riding crop. I keep it on my belt and can swish it around so that owners that don't take note of my barking dog might realise I'm not so friendly. One man thinks it's hilarious that his snarling , snapping chihauha runs over to attack us. Apparently Jake is stupid for not knowing the chi won't hurt him!

Yay best walk ever. I've been doing a intense 15 day sit/stay program, ignoring the barking and doing a trick or stay as soon as I can after an episode. Today I got him to sit across the road from a barking dog, one command, no place, told him to stay and walked backwards from him to the end of the leash. Started clapping and singing and he stopped barking to look over his shoulder to see what I was doing..... he never, not even once lifted his chunky butt out the stay. Did this on about 3 other fence barkers and even on a walking staffy (although only once we had crossed past him, don't think he would have stayed if it were coming towards us).

Ok he's still barking but it feels like a huge step.

[nawnim]

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Edited June 1, 2012 by padraic

[hankdog]

hankdog- Steve is the best person to answer, but does he have a clear "mark and release" word? For my dogs, it is "yes". If I say yes, they know:

i) they've done the right thing and

ii) they are released to get the reward for doing the right thing

I also have a "marker only" word (you've done the right thing, but you have to keep on doing it until I release you" which is "good".

Hi Megan, Funny how I can turn off my brain when dealing with Jake. I was doing the excercise verbatim so used yes and ok... Poor guy I use good and take for treats in the hand so thats what he was expecting.

Edited April 30, 2012 by hankdog

[Skye GSD]

I've spoken with Mark Singer and am really happy with how he wants to approach the situation with Justice. Because Justice's issues are really only in relation to being with other dogs and Mark has seen us before, even though it was a few years ago, he has suggested that I bring Justice to one of his group socialisation classes at no charge so that he can see first hand how Justice reacts to the other dogs (it's all very controlled and is more about teaching dogs to be calm around each other rather than dogs playing together, so no dogs will be put at risk). Mark said this way he can assess whether it's necessary for him to come out to my home for a full consultation, rather than me booking a consultation straight away and having to pay the fee ($295), if he doesn't need to see us in the home. :)

Sounds good Snook - keep us posted.

[Aidan3]

I'm not sure about with Click to Calm but the Look at That game as I understand it (and I may be wrong) the idea is that I click when he looks at the other dog rather than when he looks at me, and the click is supposed to trigger him to look at me for the treat? At obedience if he hears the click he whips his head around and looks at me but on walks I think the combination of being active and a strange dog in sight pushes his arousal/anxiety levels up too much for him to look at me when he hears the clicker.

Personally, I don't worry about having them look at me. I'm more interested in reinforcing calm behaviour when they look at the other dog. If his anxiety/arousal is going too high, then wait until you're in a less arousing situation. It's exactly like training a dog to sit or stay.

[Weasels]

I'm not sure about with Click to Calm but the Look at That game as I understand it (and I may be wrong) the idea is that I click when he looks at the other dog rather than when he looks at me, and the click is supposed to trigger him to look at me for the treat? At obedience if he hears the click he whips his head around and looks at me but on walks I think the combination of being active and a strange dog in sight pushes his arousal/anxiety levels up too much for him to look at me when he hears the clicker.

Personally, I don't worry about having them look at me. I'm more interested in reinforcing calm behaviour when they look at the other dog. If his anxiety/arousal is going too high, then wait until you're in a less arousing situation. It's exactly like training a dog to sit or stay.

that's my interpretation of the initial criteria too. I started just clicking impromptu look at the thing, then a cued look at the thing, then once he 'got' the game I clicked looking at the thing then looking at me (so actually clicking when he turned back). On the Control Unleashed DVD she says she wouldn't worry whether you are clicking the look 'out' or the look back at the start, just reward whichever part of the behaviour chain the dog is offering.

[Weasels]

Do you put your hand in front of the dog and stick the reward up to their nose until they notice it and take it?

:laugh:

Like Aidan said I would try to work out a way to lower the level of excitement. Whether that's getting in before he's really focussed in on the dog, moving further away, practicing on a smaller/calmer dog depends on what Justice finds more comfortable. With Weez he goes coocoo-bananas over those razor scooters, so we aren't training on them yet, we're starting on bikes where he does have a 'safe distance' before he reacts (which is getting closer every session )

Edited May 1, 2012 by Weasels

[m-sass]

I've spoken with Mark Singer and am really happy with how he wants to approach the situation with Justice. Because Justice's issues are really only in relation to being with other dogs and Mark has seen us before, even though it was a few years ago, he has suggested that I bring Justice to one of his group socialisation classes at no charge so that he can see first hand how Justice reacts to the other dogs (it's all very controlled and is more about teaching dogs to be calm around each other rather than dogs playing together, so no dogs will be put at risk). Mark said this way he can assess whether it's necessary for him to come out to my home for a full consultation, rather than me booking a consultation straight away and having to pay the fee ($295), if he doesn't need to see us in the home. :)

How long is the consultation for $295 Snook, seems expensive??