Puppy Farms Outlawed In Ireland..

[MissMolly]

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Long-awaited-legislation-outlaws-puppy-farming-in-Ireland-136523433.html#ixzz1iCnUUalT

Long awaited legislation outlaws puppy farming in Ireland

Authorities now have power to shut down breeders

By

CATHAL DERVAN,

IrishCentral Staff Writer

Published Monday, January 2, 2012, 6:50 AM

Updated Tuesday, January 3, 2012, 11:40 AM

Puppy farming has been outlawed in Ireland – with harsh penalties now imposed on anyone who breaks the country’s new laws.

Legislation banning puppy farms came into effect on New Year’s Day as the government looks to clean up the country’s act.

The move comes after Ireland became known as the Puppy Farm of Europe.

Campaigners have fought for years to protect puppies from unscrupulous breeders.

Now two laws - the Welfare of Greyhounds Act and the Dogs Breeding Establishments Act - have been introduced to control dog breeding and force breeders to look after their animals properly.

The new anti-puppy farming legislation makes it impossible to produce hundreds of puppies in grim conditions.

Local authority vets also have the right and obligation to inspect all breeding locations.

They can immediately shut down any kennels where animals are not being properly cared for.

All Irish puppies will be micro-chipped and can now be traced back to the breeder.

Breeders will be allowed to keep large numbers of animals, but only under strict conditions and standards set down by the new regulations.

All breeders must also be registered with their local authority to comply with the new rules.

Police have encountered several harrowing cases in recent times.

Last autumn, a Midlands owner escaped charges after a raid on a puppy farm where 50 dogs were rescued from ‘filthy and overcrowded’ kennels. Officers described the premises as ‘deplorable’.

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[Sheridan]

No, they haven't.

[GeckoTree]

Very true Sheridan.

[sandgrubber]

No, they haven't.

For those of us who know nothing about dog legislation in Ireland: No who haven't what?

[GeckoTree]

Puppy farms, no they are not outlawed, just like in Australia and every single place in the world if you want to be a puppy farm who does not get into "trouble" you simply satisfy the tick sheet they provide you.

[Steve]

Puppy farms, no they are not outlawed, just like in Australia and every single place in the world if you want to be a puppy farm who does not get into "trouble" you simply satisfy the tick sheet they provide you.

Ground hog day

define puppy farm?

[asal]

waiting with baited breath.... that should be real interesting steve..........

[mita]

For those of us who know nothing about dog legislation in Ireland:

Me, too, sandgrubber.

However, there's a doc file, Issue of Guidelines on Dog Breeding Establishments, which relates to this new Irish legislation.

Scroll down to link. One snippet of info introducing that link:

It is important to note that only establishments with six or more female dogs over 6 months of age are covered by the Act.

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/DogControl/#Issue%20of%20Guidelines%20on%20Dog%20Breeding%20Establishments

I don't want to jump to conclusions before finishing reading the Guidelines. But I'd be just as concerned about 'breeders' with less than 6 female dogs, who are unwilling, &/or incapable, of making sound decisions about breeding, raising, socialising... within a context of general welfare issues. Could be a loophole, in that 'puppy farming' divides stock into smaller establishments with numbers outside the reach of that Act. Then, it would matter if there's any other Irish dog welfare legislation that could apply.

Edited January 9, 2012 by mita

[asal]

so how do you define "sound decisions"

been reading a thread on a suspected HD puppy.

didnt take long to suspect the ethics of the breeder.

"She was xrayed by the vet and there is no actual bone damage yet (as far as he could tell, and they looked perfectly fine to me), he just said there would be if she didn't get the weight off and stop over doing it with jumping, walking on back legs and running as her ligaments(?) are way too long, allowing her hips to pop in and out.

I did contact the breeder a couple of months ago as she was already 6 kilos at 4 months (from memory, not sure exactly) and I was worried. Her reply was that the other puppies in the litter were also that weight. Obviously getting the sinking feeling that I have paid a puppy farmer."

then wonders of wonders it was discovered pup is super gangly growing phase and very overweight for age.

so no one is safe.

considering how many 0 dogs and bitches can and do produce varying degrees of HD in the susceptable breeds and even some that its rarely seen can have it happen. i know of a pup was never better than the runt, the breeder spent mega time giving it every chance but it was one third the size of its litter mates . it was sold to a pet home at only the cost of its vaccinations as the breeder was concerned about its size suspecting dwarfism or something like that although it passed all its puppy checks fine but by 12 months was diagnosed with a form of hd. although no op was needed.

bingo one unethical breeder. having bred best in show winners and never one like it before is no protection from your reputation down the gurglier with one disaster.

so is a puppy farmer anyone who has a subsound pup ever turn up?

that will rule out every breeder sooner or later, thats how breeding works.

there is a very old saying.....put the best to the best and hope, for the best.....what does that mean?

you have absolutely no guarantees the progeny will turn out half as good as the parents.

and why does the story of the ugly duckling exist?

because so many ugly duckings can turn out to be the swan, leaving an awful lot with egg on their faces.

so if you ever breed you better realise one day (unless you never sell a pup) the day WILL COME, when you will be accused of being a puppy farmer................

[SpotTheDog]

I completely understand where you're coming from on the 'define a puppy farm' debate, however I wanted to put this forward.

Ireland is puppy farming Mecca. If you want to raise hundreds of dogs in sub-standard conditions - the sort of 'puppy farm' most of the public think about, with rows upon rows of stacked wire cages, matted fur, untreated infections, left in urine and faeces for days, never allowed out except to mate, so on - you set yourself up in Ireland.

If you want to make a fortune selling crossbeed small white fluffies, 'teacup' breeds and so on, you set yourself up in Ireland. If you want to do most of your puppy transactions in cash in carparks behind supermarkets, and hand over a six week old puppy in a blanket and say it's vaccinated but you lost the vaccine card, and you'll forward its pedigree papers - you set yourself up in Ireland.

You set yourself up in Ireland (where the animal welfare laws are almost 100 years old and aren't enforced), you advertise your puppies on donedeal.ie and in the free papers, and you fight the rising tide of education (Ireland has a large bulletin board community that itself has an Animals & Pets forum, and the folks on that forum have a checklist as long as your arm on how not to buy a puppy) by answering a few questions the right way.

It's not uncommon in Ireland for puppy farmers [for a given value of 'puppy farmer' meaning an unscrupulous conveyor-belt breeder who is breeding non-health-checked dogs in substandard conditions to produce mongrel puppies and call them hybrid names and is in it all purely for the profit] to place breeding bitches in a suburban home for two weeks before the pups are due to be sold - they move her to suburbia, put a heat lamp and a bale of fresh hay out in the shed and allow people who've been told 'ask to see the mother' to come visit the surburban house where they think 'oh sure, no rows of cages, the shed looks clean, yes this isn't a puppy farm' and away they go with a few hundred euro worth of a genetic timebomb that'll break their hearts.

I have also read and been told that Ireland is supplying much of the small-white-fluffy-teacup demand in Europe from its puppy farms - but I need to google the sources of that information (though I am inclined to believe it).

On the basis that legislation needs to start somewhere, the newly introduced legislation in Ireland is as good a first step as any.

[Steve]

On the basis that legislation needs to start somewhere, the newly introduced legislation in Ireland is as good a first step as any.

I agree

[toy*dog]

so that means if you are hobby based breeder just wanting to breed a few dogs to show and kennel club registered you also have to get approval and be in with the large scale commercial breeders.

so one day you will see that the breeding of dogs will be banned altogether there is no defination between a hobby breeder and a commercial farmer, still. even in other countries. what hope do we have.

[Sheridan]

I'd like to see the reaction if Ireland banned dog breeding altogether as you seem to think toy*dog. The Irish may not have huge amounts of their native breeds but they're bloody patriotic about them.

[Souff]

It always makes a good headline.

Whether it makes any difference for the better all rests in the hands of the usual grubs.

Souff

[GeckoTree]

Puppy farms, no they are not outlawed, just like in Australia and every single place in the world if you want to be a puppy farm who does not get into "trouble" you simply satisfy the tick sheet they provide you.

Ground hog day

define puppy farm?

Hi Steve,

My definition of a puppy farm is any one, and I mean any one, who produces puppies en mass for consumer demand as a means of generated income, be it hobby, or a business, I have no differentiation between puppy produce farming, kitten produce farming, piglet produce farming, or any other livestock farming.

[Steve]

Puppy farms, no they are not outlawed, just like in Australia and every single place in the world if you want to be a puppy farm who does not get into "trouble" you simply satisfy the tick sheet they provide you.

Ground hog day

define puppy farm?

Hi Steve,

My definition of a puppy farm is any one, and I mean any one, who produces puppies en mass for consumer demand as a means of generated income, be it hobby, or a business, I have no differentiation between puppy produce farming, kitten produce farming, piglet produce farming, or any other livestock farming.

Yes I know but you see I keep saying over and over what your definition of a puppy farm is wont count because that isnt the agreed upon definition of a puppy farm which is used when drafting codes and laws and regs.

As long as we all have a different definition we will go no where .

What I would like to call a puppy farm is not what the official definition is either but how do I make a difference if Im fighting for what I think a puppy farm should be defined as ?

While ever we dont stop and all agree to one definition its a lost cause.

[GeckoTree]

I don't think any one at any time will ever agree on the wording. When a legislation is passed to help stop bad animal husbandry I think that is great, but playing the negative word association game of ' Puppy farming' is just that a word association, lets all use the words primary puppy producer instead and start a new chapter.

[Steve]

I don't think any one at any time will ever agree on the wording. When a legislation is passed to help stop bad animal husbandry I think that is great, but playing the negative word association game of ' Puppy farming' is just that a word association, lets all use the words primary puppy producer instead and start a new chapter.

So would that let those off the hook who are not registered as primary producers ? How do you decide if someone's motivation is only for money ? Is there a magic number?

[Tralee]

Define puppy farm?

waiting with baited breath.... that should be real interesting steve.......... :)

My definition of a puppy farm is any one, and I mean any one, who produces puppies en mass for consumer demand as a means of generated income, be it hobby, or a business, I have no differentiation between puppy produce farming, kitten produce farming, piglet produce farming, or any other livestock farming.

Yes I know but you see I keep saying over and over what your definition of a puppy farm is wont count because that isnt the agreed upon definition of a puppy farm which is used when drafting codes and laws and regs.

As long as we all have a different definition we will go no where .

What I would like to call a puppy farm is not what the official definition is either but how do I make a difference if Im fighting for what I think a puppy farm should be defined as ?

When ever we dont stop and all agree to one definition its a lost cause.

Steve.

The campaigns against this sort of sickening practice do not lack teeth or vigor.

Neither are they obscure or incomprehensible.

We only have to add the average age of dogs in Australia (5yo) and the numbers euthanased each year to our protests to get our point across.

Implying that the problem is insurmountable and leads to a blind alley in not helpful at all.

I don't think any one at any time will ever agree on the wording. When a legislation is passed to help stop bad animal husbandry I think that is great, but playing the negative word association game of ' Puppy farming' is just that a word association, lets all use the words primary puppy producer instead and start a new chapter.

So would that let those off the hook who are not registered as primary producers ? How do you decide if someone's motivation is only for money ? Is there a magic number?

Hi All. :)

I think its best to stick with the term 'puppy farm' because is has the same connotation as 'battery hen' and they are both in contemporary use.

Definitions are an absolute necessity because we need to agree about what we are talking about.

The debate, if it is to shift from animal neglect to commercial interest, also needs to move its focus from a 'what and where' scenario to an assessment of 'how and why.'

In brief, the RSPCA discussion paper has gone to some lengths to define the term 'puppy farm.' RSPCA Australia Discussion Paper

Fortunately, in this article, wikipedia which is not a peer reviewed source, is cited in just one reference.

Puppy farming is the indiscriminate breeding of dogs on a large scale for the purposes of sale. Puppy farms are essentially commercial operations with an emphasis on production and profit with little or no consideration given to the welfare of the animals1,2. Puppy farms are intensive systems with breeding animals and their puppies kept in facilities that fail to meet the animals’ psychological, behavioural, social or physiological needs. As a result many of these animals have a very poor quality of life.

While most puppy farms lack any structured facility plan or design and provide husbandry on an ad hoc basis only, others are purpose-built and are specifically designed to house and breed large numbers of dogs for the purpose of sale. Both types of facilities can fail to meet the animals’ behavioural, psychological, social and physiological needs.

Additionally, while some puppy farms house animals in filthy, unhygienic conditions, there are others that are comparatively ‘clean’ but still permanently confine dogs in barren cages and breed from them continually, thereby failing to meet acceptable animal welfare standards.

The commercial question is a bit trickier to discern but it can be revealed, I should think, by winnowing the nuance from any Code of Ethics worth its salt. That is, an assessment of how and why puppies are bred.

One major distinguishing feature of puppy farms is who the breeders will sell to. Puppy farmers will sell to anyone, wholesale and retail, and by any means, on-line, through pet shops, via newspapers and car boot sales or by using a false house as a ‘shop front’.

The paradox is that although education is the solution, Ireland has the highest educated population per capita in the World.

Go Figure!!!

Regards

Px

Edited January 22, 2012 by Tralee

[Souff]

I don't think any one at any time will ever agree on the wording. When a legislation is passed to help stop bad animal husbandry I think that is great, but playing the negative word association game of ' Puppy farming' is just that a word association, lets all use the words primary puppy producer instead and start a new chapter.

So would that let those off the hook who are not registered as primary producers ? How do you decide if someone's motivation is only for money ? Is there a magic number?

Souff has been in establishments that had large numbers of breeding and show dogs, and also plenty of staff to maintain high standards of hygiene and excellent interaction and training of beautiful pure bred dogs. A lot of money had been invested in the dogs, the premises, the staff and everything else for the dogs. Such establishments are rare and it is because of the $ required. The bitches were NOT overbred, were well exercised and socialised, and some of the dogs were rarely used for breeding but kept in the best of everything. Top notch places like this will still get called puppy farms but they will be able to meet the requirements of any government laws.

I have also been in places where people have too many dogs and do NOT care for the animals properly.

And I could reel of a list of domestic residences where just two dogs lived in appalling standards of care and facilities, but no laws were broken because the dogs had shelter, water and food!

There is no magic number.

I believe that the focus of any legislation has to be about the standard of care and the observance/enforcement of rules, whether those rules be set by a canine council or a government.

And anyone who wants to get into breeding dogs in numbers in a serious way would be well advised to make sure that they have plenty of the folding stuff to not only set up a proper facility that will meet the stringent requirements expected and be approved in the first place, but that they also have enough of the folding stuff to maintain high standards.

There is a huge cost to all of this.

People will still breach the rules, whatever they be, and people will still collect and hoard and see the dogs suffer.

Breeders and their organisations need to fight to have the right to be a smaller numbers breeder, who just want to breed a few good dogs at home without having to get a bank loan to build the concrete/steel/septic tank housing for the dogs in the backyard. But the canine crew here have told Souff that they will refuse to move in - even if I was forced to build it to suit any laws. :laugh:

We need good dogs in the future.

We need good breeders of those dogs.

But it is probably a sad fact of life that the good breeders will have to pay through the nose to breed dogs, and tick all the boxes.

Souff