Pets1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Has there been a change to the formula for Bayer products? Not that we have been advised of, nor the APVMA advised of We withdrew Advantix from sale of the 21st of December and have been in contact with both our supplier (who is has other customers with the same issues) and Bayer, heck, we have sold large quantities of there product and they didnt want to hear anything about it. Simply saying it is a matter between them and the user… ummm, hello, who has to give these people there money back. Easiest way for us to show our displeasure of this whole situation is to stop selling the product. Whilst every medication has risks, in 16 months we have had 3 issues with reactions from customers, 2 with Frontline (1 Cats, 1 Dogs) and one from Comfortis… then to have 7 issues in 3 weeks from 1 product…. strange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pets1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I agree that some people are not showing much sympathy towards the OP. There was an article in the American Scientific Journal going back a year or so reporting that Advantix had caused bad reactions in small dogs in particular. It is not just a case of not putting any chemical on your dogs but which chemicals have been shown to more likely cause problems. I won't use Advantix on my Bichon because this is one breed that was mentioned as experiencing bad side effects along with poodles. For those that now me, I am far from a confrontational person, but the whole concept of a discussion such as this is to get the word out, maybe there are similar circumstances, breed similarities, etc etc. Try and find a solution, or least an understanding of what is going on Having read the thread for a couple of days I wanted to keep the commercial side of things out of the equation, but with several people making blanket comments such as these things happen, well, sorry, something had to be said, given the same thing is happening to others who may not be active on this website. Based on the premise that there has been no change to the product, it is very unusual that so many issues (that I know of) have happened so close to each other (and our 7 customers come from 4 different states, the only common factor is the product) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGirl85 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Has there been a change to the formula for Bayer products? Not that we have been advised of, nor the APVMA advised of We withdrew Advantix from sale of the 21st of December and have been in contact with both our supplier (who is has other customers with the same issues) and Bayer, heck, we have sold large quantities of there product and they didnt want to hear anything about it. Simply saying it is a matter between them and the user… ummm, hello, who has to give these people there money back. Easiest way for us to show our displeasure of this whole situation is to stop selling the product. Whilst every medication has risks, in 16 months we have had 3 issues with reactions from customers, 2 with Frontline (1 Cats, 1 Dogs) and one from Comfortis… then to have 7 issues in 3 weeks from 1 product…. strange This is what made me think that maybe there has been a change to the formula, it does seem the reactions have been to more recent batches than what was available previously...although I would have thought that Bayer would have informed people of a change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavendergirl Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Has there been a change to the formula for Bayer products? Not that we have been advised of, nor the APVMA advised of We withdrew Advantix from sale of the 21st of December and have been in contact with both our supplier (who is has other customers with the same issues) and Bayer, heck, we have sold large quantities of there product and they didnt want to hear anything about it. Simply saying it is a matter between them and the user… ummm, hello, who has to give these people there money back. Easiest way for us to show our displeasure of this whole situation is to stop selling the product. Whilst every medication has risks, in 16 months we have had 3 issues with reactions from customers, 2 with Frontline (1 Cats, 1 Dogs) and one from Comfortis… then to have 7 issues in 3 weeks from 1 product…. strange This is what made me think that maybe there has been a change to the formula, it does seem the reactions have been to more recent batches than what was available previously...although I would have thought that Bayer would have informed people of a change As I said there were reports of this over 12 months ago in the US - will see if I can find the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGirl85 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Has there been a change to the formula for Bayer products? Not that we have been advised of, nor the APVMA advised of We withdrew Advantix from sale of the 21st of December and have been in contact with both our supplier (who is has other customers with the same issues) and Bayer, heck, we have sold large quantities of there product and they didnt want to hear anything about it. Simply saying it is a matter between them and the user… ummm, hello, who has to give these people there money back. Easiest way for us to show our displeasure of this whole situation is to stop selling the product. Whilst every medication has risks, in 16 months we have had 3 issues with reactions from customers, 2 with Frontline (1 Cats, 1 Dogs) and one from Comfortis… then to have 7 issues in 3 weeks from 1 product…. strange This is what made me think that maybe there has been a change to the formula, it does seem the reactions have been to more recent batches than what was available previously...although I would have thought that Bayer would have informed people of a change As I said there were reports of this over 12 months ago in the US - will see if I can find the article. Is the product available here manufactured in the US? if not then I'd almost be saying its unrelated, if yes...then how do we know they weren't manufactured at the same time? I just had a look at a box I have here, there is an expiry date, but no manufacture date...it could just be that this 'batch' which was available in the US 12 months ago, has just recently come into circulation here in Australia Edited January 13, 2012 by GoldenGirl85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Has there been a change to the formula for Bayer products? Not that we have been advised of, nor the APVMA advised of We withdrew Advantix from sale of the 21st of December and have been in contact with both our supplier (who is has other customers with the same issues) and Bayer, heck, we have sold large quantities of there product and they didnt want to hear anything about it. Simply saying it is a matter between them and the user… ummm, hello, who has to give these people there money back. Easiest way for us to show our displeasure of this whole situation is to stop selling the product. Whilst every medication has risks, in 16 months we have had 3 issues with reactions from customers, 2 with Frontline (1 Cats, 1 Dogs) and one from Comfortis… then to have 7 issues in 3 weeks from 1 product…. strange This is what made me think that maybe there has been a change to the formula, it does seem the reactions have been to more recent batches than what was available previously...although I would have thought that Bayer would have informed people of a change I think it's worth pointing out that when one person has a bad experience with a product (and are very vocal about it), people tend to watch the product more closely and react differently to side effects, even if it's something they've used for a while and have always trusted. People will also over-report the severity of side effects when the product is under scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pets1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 All Bayer product is manufactured in Germany So what the U.S. get (under the same label) is the same as what we get here (they just have different labels with FDA approval) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pets1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think it's worth pointing out that when one person has a bad experience with a product (and are very vocal about it), people tend to watch the product more closely and react differently to side effects, even if it's something they've used for a while and have always trusted. People will also over-report the severity of side effects when the product is under scrutiny. You are 100% correct, hence why with a lot of testing placebo's are used (that narrows down such issues) Maybe some of the issues raised earlier in this thread could have been due to a heightened awareness of potential problems. As I do not know these people, I am not in a position to comment, other than I hope for the best for there dogs. The customers that I have dealt with do not know each other, live in different states, and to my knowledge do not use this forum (all found us by Google or Yahoo search) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You should report the adverse reaction to the APVMA: http://www.apvma.gov.au/use_safely/adverse/veterinary.php Pets1, did you advise your buyers to do this? The number of reactions does indeed seem alarmingly high. I bought some Advantix from somewhere else a few weeks ago, and applied it last week to my 18kg dog. No major issues, except it stains her fur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pets1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You should report the adverse reaction to the APVMA: http://www.apvma.gov.au/use_safely/adverse/veterinary.php Pets1, did you advise your buyers to do this? The number of reactions does indeed seem alarmingly high. I bought some Advantix from somewhere else a few weeks ago, and applied it last week to my 18kg dog. No major issues, except it stains her fur. They were all advised of this, plus a complaint in writing to Bayer Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You should report the adverse reaction to the APVMA: http://www.apvma.gov.au/use_safely/adverse/veterinary.php Pets1, did you advise your buyers to do this? The number of reactions does indeed seem alarmingly high. I bought some Advantix from somewhere else a few weeks ago, and applied it last week to my 18kg dog. No major issues, except it stains her fur. They were all advised of this, plus a complaint in writing to Bayer Australia Hopefully someone works out what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think it's worth pointing out that when one person has a bad experience with a product (and are very vocal about it), people tend to watch the product more closely and react differently to side effects, even if it's something they've used for a while and have always trusted. People will also over-report the severity of side effects when the product is under scrutiny. You are 100% correct, hence why with a lot of testing placebo's are used (that narrows down such issues) Maybe some of the issues raised earlier in this thread could have been due to a heightened awareness of potential problems. As I do not know these people, I am not in a position to comment, other than I hope for the best for there dogs. The customers that I have dealt with do not know each other, live in different states, and to my knowledge do not use this forum (all found us by Google or Yahoo search) You have to admit though that it is possible they researched the product before deciding to try it or after buying it and came across some of the dubious forums/sites that warn people of the terrible side effects. Without talking to each customer and finding out exactly what the problems were, what research they did and what sites (other than Dol) that they looked at (before and after using the product), you can't say that the reactions weren't typical reactions or even conditions completely unrelated to the product (correlation =/= causation, after all) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pets1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You have to admit though that it is possible they researched the product before deciding to try it or after buying it and came across some of the dubious forums/sites that warn people of the terrible side effects. Without talking to each customer and finding out exactly what the problems were, what research they did and what sites (other than Dol) that they looked at (before and after using the product), you can't say that the reactions weren't typical reactions or even conditions completely unrelated to the product (correlation =/= causation, after all) Given that of 7 issues, there were 4 different problems, 2 had severe vomiting, 2 with irritated skin, one of these to the point where the skin almost appeared burnt and welts appearing, 2 had varying types of convulsions/fits in the 24-48hrs after treatment, and the last issue was to do with vision, the dog had no sense of location (after 3 years in the same place, and the first time they have ever encountered ticks). The dog kept losing balance, running into walls, doors, windows, furniture, after 24 hours everything seemed to be back to normal (3 of the 7 customers did take there dogs to the vet as well). Yes, there is a lot of mis-information out there on other websites, whether they attempted to be an armchair expert, who knows. On the flip side, my best friend and brother in law are both Vets, and after speaking to them they have not been presented with any animals with issues such as this recently from the product in question. Whether it is a batch related issue, or just co-incidence I don't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavendergirl Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It was a March 2010 article I was thinking of about the effect of spot-ons on small dogs in particular - don't know if this link will work. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=small-dogs-susceptible-flea-poison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Pets1 if you genuinely have these concerns, you need to report to the APVMA as well. Each and every incident and concern. Anecdotal information from industry members is sometimes as important as first hand experience, and APVMA won't have the ammunition to challenge Bayer over the issue, or investigate any further if they are not fully aware of the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pets1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Pets1 if you genuinely have these concerns, you need to report to the APVMA as well. Each and every incident and concern. Anecdotal information from industry members is sometimes as important as first hand experience, and APVMA won't have the ammunition to challenge Bayer over the issue, or investigate any further if they are not fully aware of the issue. Already in the process of being done However, as we did not have direct contact with the application , etc, the report is simply a matter of due process, and brief descriptions of what the complaints to us comprised of. As previously stated, I know a couple of the people are going to contact the APVMA, the others are more of the mindset, they have there money back, product in the bin, thats it. Unfortunately, whilst it would be great if everyone did follow through with complaints, this is something that cannot be forced upon them. Also, with the customers who do not wish to take things further, we are obliged under the Privacy act not to provide any of there details, other than location, and issue Sadly we are between a rock and a hard place with this, I know what the right thing to do is, but I must respect what others wish to do, or not do Edited January 13, 2012 by Pets1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redangel Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have just decided through listening to other peoples experiences I wouldnt use it on breeds like bichon, poodles... I remember a few years back that the "heartguard" wormer was known for side effects in collies... obviously some breeds react differently to such things and one just needs to be aware when using products. I consider it personal responsibility where the company has done what it can to minimise adverse effects and has adequate warnings to be vigilant when choosing to use a product. Like for example "deet" in human insect repellants. One of my friends cannot tolerate it and it makes her quite ill. Many insect repellants have this product and many people use it with no issue. As said any chemical we contact can be a potential allergen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougal Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have only ever used Advantix on my cockers without any problem, or ticks....and we live in a high tick prone area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mary Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have also had a problem with this product with one of my dogs about a year ago. The Toy Poodle and Doberman were fine but the Dalmation was not. He had red patches on his neck and back, was extremely itchy and had what I call a 'crawling skin'. He rolled in the grass, on the carpet and constantly looked at his back and nibbled himself. I realised something was wrong within a couple of hours and washed him thoroughly several times but after 24 hours he was still very agitated so I took him to the vet. I can't remember what exactly they did for him, an injection of something and probably pills I am sure, which relieved the symptoms somewhat. It certainly took a week before he was back to his normal self. My vet was genuinely concerned by the reaction, she personally reported this to Bayer and the APVMA and fully refunded my money for the three dogs as I said I would never use this product again. All dogs had previously been OK with Frontline and Permoxin spray. This was the first time I had tried this product and I had read the leaflet in the packaging. I had also been online and read the Bayer website which included warnings of possible reactions hence I was alert to the possibility that there could be adverse reactions in some dogs. Like all medications, both human and animal, there can be adverse reactions. As soon as this has happened to my dog I did further research and found that it would seem to be reported as more common in some small breeds. My vet and I have no idea why it should have affected my boy like it did. My vet advised me that Bayer also claimed to be clueless about why he had a reaction (we both rolled our eyes and said "yeh, sure" about that). I guess with all drugs and topical chemicals for humans and animals it is a case of consumer or owner beware. If this product were for human use I am sure we would have heard more about reactions and complaints. To the OP, I can empathise with your concerns and feel very sorry for your poor dog who had a worse reaction than mine. Hopefully your dog has now fully recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappynsuzie Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I had that problem with Advantix a few years ago when it was relatively new in Australia. My scottie had a terrible reaction. After washing it off and taking him to the vet, an antihistamine injection and a steriod he recovered. My Vet contacted Bayer who then contacted me. I must say Bayer were very supportive to me and my dog and sent me out a lot of free samples of their products. They were genuinely interested and told me that golden retrievers and Bichon's had the most reactions to advantix. I had several phone calls from bayer wanting to know how the dog recovered. I have used advantix on other scotties with no effect. Dogs like people are all individuals and react in different ways. Hope your little poodle recovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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