Separation Issues - New Pups . Some Discussion...

[Nekhbet]

Well Nekhbet, I am that old - back in the early 70's (sheese I am old) we went to clubs out the back of council parks, volunteers were all we had. But we also had access to take our dogs out and about to sooo many different venues. The expectation back then was different. Now the community expect more and as Trainers we have to try and provide the training to suit the 'modern' world. Unfortunately it will mean it will cost more but I agree some of the prices clients have been quoted astound me. Even the cost of many a vet puppy school or in one of the Pet Suppliers pup program is outrageous and for very little effect.

I do agree. People have also lost the ability to be self sufficient ... it seems to be easier to just pay someone to do everything for you, whinge like a 5 year old when it's not spoon fed to them, then to do some of your own research or god forbid, learn with a bit of trial, error and logic.

But my point was more for the blatant pocket liners for what the owners will get. Yes people have to cover their costs but jeezus some places take it too far.

[Trisven13]

Personally I think the more the breeder does, in terms of seperating the pups from each other, crate/pen training them, taking them for car rides, handling them, having others handle them etc, makes a world of difference to how a puppy settles into it's new home.

I rarely get calls that mine cry or they are distressed in any way, most say they march in and take over the house like they've always been there.

A bit of common sense from the puppy buyers goes a long way too.

Yep I agree!

[Rebanne]

In Tricks Of The Trade by Pat Hastings she says: never do something for a dog that you can teach the dog to do for itself. Much like children, puppies grow up more confident when they are taught to think for themselves. If you do everything for dogs, they will rely on you instead of learning to use their onw brains.

how true it that!

Edited January 8, 2012 by Rebanne

[persephone]

never do something for a dog that you can teach the dog to do for itself.

I am NOT teaching my dog to open the fridge :p

But otherwise, a good philosophy

[LizT]

never do something for a dog that you can teach the dog to do for itself.

I am NOT teaching my dog to open the fridge :p

But otherwise, a good philosophy

This is seriously true.

A few years ago (less than 10) the people next door to my mother (immigrants from a war torn European country) got a puppy for their kids. They proudly called mum over to see the new puppy. Lovely said mum, what are you feeding it? "Oh, you have to feed it? I thought it would catch it's own food like a cat does", said the mother.

Don't even get me started on the cat aspect of that statement!!!!

Long story short mum taught them much and today they are really good pet owners and even take mums dog for a walk at times. However, they still make huge mistakes based on limited knowlege like mum forgetting to tell them not to let her rescue Cavalier off lead as Otis is shy of males and when the man next door took him and his dog to the local footy oval he let them both off lead for a run and Otis ran off and hid. It took him ages to find him and I'm sure he was very worried until his dog found Otis hiding under some bushes. My elderly and forgetful mother should have warned him not to let the dog off lead. Could have been a very sad outcome.

Edited January 8, 2012 by LizT

[Christina]

If I may add another discussion prompt:

Do we expect too much from 8-16 week old pups? Along the same lines as mentioned on the availability of information, does access to stories of other people's early training success, raise expectations too high, too soon?

Of course we do. Everything has to be perfect & by the book & the calender now.

Years ago we had no expectations really, same as with babies.

You got them, you reared them, with common sense & kindness if you had any intelligence & compassion, & you loved & kept them whether it worked out well or not.

Excluding unprovoked attacks, exceptional circumstances or unmanageable illness naturally.

You hoped it worked out well & accepted that they are living creatures that do not come with an instruction book or manual.

It has all got rather ridiculous & over the top sometimes.

I have had some pain in the butt animals in a lifetime. Some came with issues, some were badly bred & some were just not right but some were perfect They are animals.

[aussielover]

It is best to start out as you mean to go on...

Having said that I think with sensible early training and socialisation and a good temperament, most dogs should be able to adapt to changes in lifestyle relatively easily later on in life

Spoiling a dog by letting it do what it wants, molly-coddling it by keeping it indoors all the time, lack of boundaries etc can make for a high strung dog that may not adapt to change well

Spoiling a dog by spending time training, playing and taking it out a lot isn't a bad thing in my eyes

Edited January 8, 2012 by aussielover

[Agility Dogs]

Another vote here for starting as you intend to continue.

I think people are fed too much information and people worry FAR too much about their pups. I love my dogs and am besotted by each of them, but they are still dogs and quite able to look after themselves (as long as they are appropriately contained) while I'm at work.

The puppies only sleep for the most part any way so staying at home would just be boring!

Our 3 are a good case study. The two girls were left alone (with the other dogs) from the age of 6 weeks in one case (I know, long, sad story and will NEVER happen again) and 12 weeks in the other. Both these girls are totally comfortable being left at home on their own and never make a noise.

My boy had health issues that required constant supervision between 16 weeks and 12 months, he was NEVER alone for all this time.

Now we can't leave him at home along or he howls. With another dog is fine, but not on his own. I wonder if he would have been different if we could have left him unsupervised?

[megan_]

When I got my pupu I had time off work (it just happened that way). I left him alone for a period every single day and he got used to it very quickly. I even gave him free reign of the house and access to the tiny "garden" via a dog door. Of course I kept dangeous things out of his reach.

Maybe I was lucky but no furniture was ever chewed and he never got up to mischief. I started as I intended to live with him throughout his life. He is crate trained but I wouldn't leave a dog in a crate for the 12+ hours that I'm at work.

He is comfortable being left at home either alone or with my other dog (who I got after him).

ETA: I think DOL contributes to the problem too . Too many "DON'T do this, don't do that, if you aren't crate training you'll ruin your puppy" sentiments sometimes. I've even read threads where most posers say you shouldn't leave your grown dog outdoors, and the dog is better off locked inside the house...

Edited January 9, 2012 by megan_

[Christina]

I've even read threads where most posers say you shouldn't leave your grown dog outdoors, and the dog is better off locked inside the house...

I agree with most of your post but not the above.

It does depend on your dog, the breed & where you live.

When I lived in the city I had no issue with leaving my Great Dane in my completely paved yard with a 6 foot solid fence or even leaving my back door open for him to go in the laundry if he was inclined. Only an idiot would enter & mess with him, one big bark put most people off however

I would not go out & leave my little poodles out. Here in the country many people do not take care of surrounding property & there is farmland. The risks of deadly brown snakes are vastly increased & little dogs have less chance of faring well if they meet.

Little lap dogs are easier to steal too & often much in demand, especially entire small poodles.

Weather wise they are not equipped to deal with extremes. A predicted daily temperature of 36 here can rise to 42 suddenly & quickly out in the garden.

They are not a breed that is usually kenneled as they need to be around people & do not thrive well mentally in outdoor living. That does not mean that they have to be glued to your side 24/7 though they would like that

[Sydoo]

never do something for a dog that you can teach the dog to do for itself.

I am NOT teaching my dog to open the fridge :p

But otherwise, a good philosophy

You don't necessarily have to teach them to open the fridge ;)

http://youtu.be/m2iCsXs_gDk

[LizT]

I've even read threads where most posers say you shouldn't leave your grown dog outdoors, and the dog is better off locked inside the house...

I agree with most of your post but not the above.

It does depend on your dog, the breed & where you live.

When I lived in the city I had no issue with leaving my Great Dane in my completely paved yard with a 6 foot solid fence or even leaving my back door open for him to go in the laundry if he was inclined. Only an idiot would enter & mess with him, one big bark put most people off however

I would not go out & leave my little poodles out. Here in the country many people do not take care of surrounding property & there is farmland. The risks of deadly brown snakes are vastly increased & little dogs have less chance of faring well if they meet.

Little lap dogs are easier to steal too & often much in demand, especially entire small poodles.

Weather wise they are not equipped to deal with extremes. A predicted daily temperature of 36 here can rise to 42 suddenly & quickly out in the garden.

They are not a breed that is usually kenneled as they need to be around people & do not thrive well mentally in outdoor living. That does not mean that they have to be glued to your side 24/7 though they would like that

Same with my Cavaliers Christina.

Our German Shepherd is most definitely an outdoor dog and his bed looks into our family room where he oversees his "girls'. He loves our little Cavaliers so much and woe betide the idiot who would try to take one of his ladies!!

They are the only thing of 'value' in this house were a burgular to break in.

Edited January 9, 2012 by LizT

[persephone]

You don't necessarily have to teach them to open the fridge ;)

LOL!!

Edited January 9, 2012 by persephone

[LizT]

You don't necessarily have to teach them to open the fridge ;)

<br style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: verdana, tahoma, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(238, 242, 247); ">

LOL!!

I think something got lost in translation!

[persephone]

no.. was LOLing at the utube clip.

My puter insists on putting all that code stuff in when I quote anything . I didn't get back to clean it up, sorry. edited now .

Edited January 9, 2012 by persephone

[LizT]

no.. was LOLing at the utube clip.

My puter insists on putting all that code stuff in when I quote anything . I didn't get back to clean it up, sorry. edited now .

LOL that could stop being "cute"after a while!!

[dancinbcs]

Another big issue these days is that so many people have not grown up with dogs. When I was a kid nearly everyone had a dog and you grew up knowing the basics of dog behaviour so knew what to expect as you reared a puppy. Everyone owned or knew a dog that destroyed things, an escape artist, a barker, etc so they knew that dogs sometimes did all these things.

With so many immigrants from non doggy countries and children being raised in high density housing, a lot grow up with no idea how dogs act and think. Then they go out and buy a puppy and attempt to try to raise by the book but the books contradict each other. Personally I don't think anyone should rear a puppy if they have never lived with a dog before. Better to get an adult that has some basic training to learn about dogs before attempting to raise a puppy. A few people manage to get raising their first dog from a puppy right, but so many just have no idea and it is the puppies that suffer.

[persephone]

Good post, dancinbcs

[LizT]

Another big issue these days is that so many people have not grown up with dogs. When I was a kid nearly everyone had a dog and you grew up knowing the basics of dog behaviour so knew what to expect as you reared a puppy. Everyone owned or knew a dog that destroyed things, an escape artist, a barker, etc so they knew that dogs sometimes did all these things.

With so many immigrants from non doggy countries and children being raised in high density housing, a lot grow up with no idea how dogs act and think. Then they go out and buy a puppy and attempt to try to raise by the book but the books contradict each other. Personally I don't think anyone should rear a puppy if they have never lived with a dog before. Better to get an adult that has some basic training to learn about dogs before attempting to raise a puppy. A few people manage to get raising their first dog from a puppy right, but so many just have no idea and it is the puppies that suffer.

You have just described the first miserable failed attempts of my parents (immigrants and WW2 survivors) for whom dog ownership was neither practical or possible during their childhood years.

So when attempting to give their children a puppy, unsuitable breeds were purchased from unscrupable people who gave little information about the dog except that it would grow too big. My parents learnt the hard way big puppy feet meant big dog!! So when eventually they decided to adopt a small adult terrier everything was wonderful...until of course the poor dog (which came from a Lost Dogs Home) came down with Distemper and had to be PTS.

It wasn't until their dogmad eldest daughte became a teenager and read, and read and talked to people and learnt everything she could get her hands on about dogsthat they had their first real success with a Miniature Poodle. Yes, she even learnt to save money and to go and buy from a registered breeder. The parents too learnt and forty years later they have had many years of happy dog ownership and the next generation are all responsible dog owners.

[Christina]

I don't think anyone should rear a puppy if they have never lived with a dog before.

A bit extreme when one considers that people have babies & have not lived with them before.

Single children or chinese people where they only have one child don't know what its like living with a baby.

The other point is that someone may have lived with a family dog & it was slung in the backyard & many caring & training things not done so they think this is how dogs live because its what they were taught. Rub its nose in it if it makes a mess is a typical example of old fashioned ignorance & some people still do it

Many first time owners are great, willing to learn & care & not all are nervous wrecks without a clue.