persephone Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Lots of pups settle in well, and adjust to being left home ...and families blend beautifully . BUT... On reading peoples' posts on housetraining, puppies crying when alone, puppies being clingy, puppies being destructive when alone, or not using toys... One thought has been tumbling around in my brain . Are we maybe making puppies too dependent on us humans from the minute we bring them home, and so not allowing them to learn to cope , to be confident , to stretch out, in those early weeks/months? Is it ideal to take time away from employment , and wait on the new bundle of gorgeousness hand & foot ...then suffer guilt and stress when returning to work, with a puppy who is suddenly bereft, without the skills to cope with being alone ? Is it being kind to a puppy longterm keeping it with us constantly , lavishing it with affection ..then leaving it in a pen when we go off ? Do we need to start as we mean to go on ..and ensure pup has independent playtime/outside time from day one ? Do we need to hold off on admiring and praising and adoring at all? Do we need to do MORE things together, and have more time to praise and cuddle puppies? What do you think? I am aware that there is no absolute - each situation is unique , so ... add your ideas to the mix Edited January 2, 2014 by persephone 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lushos Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Lots of pups settle in well, and adjust to being left home ...and families blend beautifully . BUT... On reading peoples' posts on housetraining, puppies crying when alone, puppies being clingy, puppies being destructive when alone, or not using toys... One thought has been tumbling around in my brain . Are we maybe making puppies too dependent on us humans from the minute we bring them home, and so not allowing them to learn to cope , to be confident , to stretch out, in those early weeks/months? Is it ideal to take time away from employment , and wait on the new bundle of gorgeousness hand & foot ...then suffer guilt and stress when returning to work, with a puppy who is suddenly bereft, without the skills to cope with being alone ? Is it being kind to a puppy longterm keeping it with us constantly , lavishing it with affection ..then leaving it in a pen when we go off ? Do we need to start as we mean to go on ..and ensure pup has independent playtime/outside time from day one ? Do we need to hold off on admiring and praising and adoring at all? Do we need to do MORE things together, and have more time to praise and cuddle puppies? What do you think? I am aware that there is no absolute - each situation is unique , so ... add your ideas to the mix A big YES to all of the above!! As you know from my other post RE: all of this - I feel like I have failed my pup by doing ALL of the above - and now, with a week left until I return to work after having 3 weeks off - my pup is stressed when I leave.... I thought I was doing everything right by not leaving my pup alone at all when she 1st came home - BIG MISTAKE by ME.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I think one of the biggest issues is to much info. When we first started selling our puppies people used common sense & all was great. In the last 10 yrs there is this new trend to google,buy all sorts of books & people have lost the common sense aspect & end up so confused they make training hard & when it goes pear shaped the slightest whinge/cry ia labelled "seperation Anxiety" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I thought I was doing everything right by not leaving my pup alone at all when she 1st came home - BIG MISTAKE by ME.. But it may not be ... That's why I started this thread- to get peoples' stories and opinions hang around! I guess i am also curious, as I've never had a young pup in the subbubs ..dogs I acquired in the city were adult. yes, I have had pups ..but out in the bush.. where they have an acre of unkempt garden ..other dogs/cats/poultry..and lots to interest them when outside They are usually so tired when inside , they just sleep! I am also not a person who fusses over dogs a lot ... preferring just to have them doing their own thing around me ..I'm not a person who has a dog alongside me on the couch or bed as a rule ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I think one of the biggest issues is to much info. When we first started selling our puppies people used common sense & all was great. In the last 10 yrs there is this new trend to google,buy all sorts of books & people have lost the common sense aspect & end up so confused they make training hard & when it goes pear shaped the slightest whinge/cry ia labelled "seperation Anxiety" I like this post. My dogs do not show any seperation anxiety when we leave them. Our big girls have a large indoor run and MM has an indoor crate. We have never made an issue of going out and leaving the dogs by themselves. Even on work days as hubby and I work different shifts. They have toys or chewbies, made sure they will be cool in summer and I make sure they are toileted before we go out. End of story. I agree it seems that people have lost common sense and do make out as if their puppy will be severly deprived by not having humans there. But everyone does have their own way of doing things. When people bring home a new puppy both parties are learning new things and it can be a little scarey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 When people bring home a new puppy both parties are learning new things and it can be a little scarey And do you think that perhaps this is because of the aforementioned "information overload"? there are SO many things to be found in books and on the interwebz..so many apparent problems and ways of failing a puppy .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss B Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Is it ideal to take time away from employment , and wait on the new bundle of gorgeousness hand & foot ...then suffer guilt and stress when returning to work, with a puppy who is suddenly bereft, without the skills to cope with being alone ? I wondered the same thing, and for this reason I no longer take time off work when I bring a new puppy home. They are expected to settle into the usual routine from day one; and they do so surprisingly well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) When people bring home a new puppy both parties are learning new things and it can be a little scarey And do you think that perhaps this is because of the aforementioned "information overload"? there are SO many things to be found in books and on the interwebz..so many apparent problems and ways of failing a puppy .... Yes that could very well be a problem. So much info to digest. Off to chase puppy as he has grabbed my bra from the washing pile LOL Am back...Swapped him one of his toys for my bra. There are so many books out there. so much info. I think alot of the time people become so overwhelmed by it all they dont know what they are doing. Instead of just enjoying the puppy and bringing him up as a puppy they expect to much of themselves and the pup. Edited January 6, 2012 by Bullbreedlover 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I am an advocate of crate training. Always have been, always will be. I like to bring my puppies u with them knowing that this is their place to sleep and they also have their toys to amuse them if they are not out with us. I will never bring a puppy up to have full reign of the house. It is my domain, not theirs but I do allow exceptions to that rule LOL. But not all the time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Have to say when I got Kenzie i never wanted to leave her because she was so adorable!! But even though I had 5 weeks off work at the time i made sure I left her every day for varying periods. It seems to have worked for us. I now have a dog who enjoys her alone time as much as her time with me. We've just spent 2 weeks together 24hrs a day, and I think we're both happy things are back to normal now and she has days home on her own and I have my space but we also do stuff together and probably enjoy it more! But I agree there is so much info out there and ur can get overwhelming. I was able to filter through it and pick and choose which bits I liked, throw in some common sense and it seems to have worked! But if you take everything you read as gospel then it's a minefield!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If I may add another discussion prompt: Do we expect too much from 8-16 week old pups? Along the same lines as mentioned on the availability of information, does access to stories of other people's early training success, raise expectations too high, too soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosaline Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I guess this is a tricky one for me. Right now I work from home, so when we get a puppy (and we are talking about a velcro welshie here) she will have almost unlimited access to me, and to be honest I'm looking forward to the company during quiet school hours! It's also easy for me to take a puppy most places, other than the shops etc. However, in talking to a breeder recently, it was suggested that this might not be ideal - what if circumstances change and I decide to get a job away from home, or even other situations where I may want or need to be away for any period of time. With husband at work and child at school, and a puppy used to ME being there all day, we could have a situation on our hands! So, I'm a bit stumped. I had planned on letting the puppy/dog have access to the whole house when I'm home, and I will often sit on the back deck to work, but maybe I do need to let her have periods of being alone, so she knows that I will go away, but I will come back. Most likely not make it routine either, so she's aware that it could be an hour or it could be a few hours. I'm thinking too, that I could take her to my folks place occasionally and leave her there for short periods so she's familiar with their home as well, in case we need to leave her there at any stage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lushos Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If I may add another discussion prompt: Do we expect too much from 8-16 week old pups? Along the same lines as mentioned on the availability of information, does access to stories of other people's early training success, raise expectations too high, too soon? After all this discussion - I have a question... So, if you have spent 2 weeks with your pup doing things like toilet training, puppy school and driving around, just in general hanging around the house with pup with you constantly, then you try to pen them and the pup stresses when you leave by crying, whining ,panting, pacing, do you keep going with the penning and puppy will settle over a few days / a week ? Or does it become such a situation that a trainer needs to some home visit as the puppy is stressed? just asking as an inexperienced pup owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdog2 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Not sure if there is a right or wrong answer When I compare my dogs with my sisters dog I see huge differences even though we both have spent heaps of time with them as pups. My pups always came to work with me from 8wks of age, were crate-trained and I make a point of spending HEAPS of time and training with them in the first 12 months. I admit I never have one dog at a time so suppose they're never on their own but I don't have toilet training issues, barking issues or destructive dogs. My sisters pup is with her all day every day as my sister is between jobs and her husband works away through the week. This dog has SERIOUS separation issues to the stage the neighbors feel sorry for her pup because when my sister does venture out to visit our mum or go shopping her pup cries and barks until she returns home. She was initially crate-trained (my advice) and loved her crate, however my sister soon decided it was much easier to have her out of the crate (and in her bed) to save being woken early in the morning when her pup was looking for attention and a game. Now the crate is never used . We both love our dogs and spend a lot of time with them, the only difference is I'm probably firmer and more consistent ;) Edited January 6, 2012 by gsdog2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) ... just asking as an inexperienced pup owner. I'm one too. Sometimes it seems like you are getting nowhere and then the penny just drops. Edit: And I think you're too stressed Edited January 6, 2012 by mackie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmaCam+Digby Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Showdog, I did a unit on gender and discipline this last semester at uni, and while it was in regards to children, your post here made me think of an article that we studied... its main idea was "the rise of the expert and the fall of the mother"...... basically outlining how with so many experts available, on the internet, in books and on telly (such as Supernanny, or in the case of Dogs Ceasar Milan etc), mothers (or in this case dog owners) begin to doubt their own instincts or things that they know. Its quite transferrable to pet owners too. When Digby came to live with us, we had been planning and looking into getting a puppy ( we were looking into getting a Shar Pei and had done a lot of research into the breed and care for it, Digby the Australian Cattle dog is a long story!) , I felt I was pretty abreast of the whole idea. Then along came Digby, a shoe eating, non sleeping, night screaming, carpet weeing, garbage bin raiding bundle of joy. I felt awful because Ian Dunbar told me that if he even thought about having an accident on the carpet he would toilet all over himself forever, I was a failure because I let him sleep in the bedroom next to our bed cause he screamed all night the first three nights and I was tired. and I stressed because I didn't know 100 people to introduce him to in his first few weeks, and many of the dogs in town were not very well mannered, or farm dogs who could have any response to a puppy, some of whom I doubted would be vaccinated at all (on top of that there was parvo going around the town.) I also felt very guilty cause I could not stay at home with him, or visit him at lunch time) entirely on the first few weeks home. (I work three days a week 50kms away) I was proud that I made it to 2 (out of 4 that I paid for) puppy school classes an hour away with him screaming and barking in the back seat of my car. I was petrified that I was "ruining" this dog who was in my care. All because of things that I had read or been told. I admit that Digby still needs some work (he is 8 months old and a nutter still), but he is toilet trained, is well on the way to being crate trained (after 3 days) and he has met a few people who love him, and we have successfully worked on car obsession and a few other ticks he had. He sits and does a few other tricks to hand signals. We even have a second (older rescue) dog now to keep him company. I may have gotten a little bit OT here... sorry alternatively, perhaps as a forum of people whom are dog people, who are knowledgable and smart about dog stuff, newbies like me are attracted to get assistance for our seemingly problematic pooches who are not Lassie from day one. : who then learn to love Dogs as much as the rest of the DOL crew and stay for the awesomeness. and cute doggy photos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmaCam+Digby Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 wow that post was longer than I thought.... sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 My eldest dog grew up being minded by my retired grandparents when I went out. She was cuddled and cooed over and the apple of my eye- toilet trained after the first day, ended up sleeping in bed because she cried of a night (and it was my mum against dogs in the bed not me). She doesn't give a hoot about being left when I now go out and she isn't being minded. My dogs all rotate between me and my mum/grandparents so they all get time when they have constant human attention and when they are left during the day. So I wonder if it is just the general stressful environment that I introduce them too that sets them up to deal with other stressors later in life, like being left. Pups that are not stressed early on don't learn the coping mechanisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Interesting I felt like I was failing Esky big time when I was a member of an american forum following all the advice. I was so so paranoid, I wish I had played more games with her and fully understood crate training. I was around for so much of Esky's puppy hood- she had a lot of changes and copes pretty well. I've gone from no job to full time out of the house to working from home and she's hasn't batted an eyelid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 From my reading here I think too many new puppy owners are too scared to just put the pup outside. Some allowances do need to be made for some circumstances but every pup I have had they have all been outside from day one for large periods of time. People seem to over think things and I do think it is because of information overload. It does the puppy no harm to be outside exploring it's world,in fact it is good for it's development. Much better then being stuck in a pen inside day after day cause the owners are so paranoid about the pup being loose in the yard. So many experts giving advice and saying "do this or that or otherwise you are a failure". What happened to common sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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