Shy Puppy.. Apparently

[minimiss]

Where abouts are you? There are some good puppy schools run by proper trainers - not vet nurses, who are trained to be vet nurses, not trainers or behaviourists.

I'm in Sydenham..

You're right - This morning I was looking through the review handouts given at the session and it's basically stock standard information you'll find in any generic puppy training...

I'm trying to be positive about it by thinking 'perhaps she's a great nurse, just not a great puppy preschool teacher, but the way she handled Benny makes me think otherwise. Wouldn't basic handling and fear be part of vet nurse training too?

[minimiss]

Gawd, I wouldn't be going back there.

Sounds just like Mosley when he was in his puppy class. He acted exactly the same way and was quite disturbed by all the manic fluffies looning around him He just sat by my feet. Everyone in our class loved him, he was so well mannered and calm.

He is 3 now and LOVES other dogs and people, he is not shy at all.

The woman running your class sounds like a total cretin, she obviosuly hasn't got a clue about dog behaviour and I'd be finding another class asap.

Yay for another 'shy' puppy

I think a lot of us DOLers just have very polite little babies

[Dame Aussie]

Gawd, I wouldn't be going back there.

Sounds just like Mosley when he was in his puppy class. He acted exactly the same way and was quite disturbed by all the manic fluffies looning around him He just sat by my feet. Everyone in our class loved him, he was so well mannered and calm.

He is 3 now and LOVES other dogs and people, he is not shy at all.

The woman running your class sounds like a total cretin, she obviosuly hasn't got a clue about dog behaviour and I'd be finding another class asap.

Yay for another 'shy' puppy

I think a lot of us DOLers just have very polite little babies

Exactly!

If your boy is anthing like mine you won't have to worry about shyness, his favourite thing ever is to go to the vet

Funny, becasue when Lili was a baby she was the feral one going nuts in puppy class but now she's far more reserved than Mosley!

[Alkhe]

Let me know if you would like to have a play date with another small and friendly dog! I'm in Brunswick East and my girl is 4 years and .. I wouldn't say 'shy', but she's not at all boisterous or rough in her play. She likes toys and being chased

[wuffles]

I didn't find puppy school all that interesting but I still found it useful. My girl wasn't shy but I used it as an opportunity for her to learn to work with me around other dogs, people, food, smells, etc. As long as you are proactive you can survive ;)

[Jordan Windebank]

Hopefully one of the regulars can recommend a school as I'm only around the corner in Caroline Springs and will be looking soon. Good luck!

[minimiss]

Let me know if you would like to have a play date with another small and friendly dog! I'm in Brunswick East and my girl is 4 years and .. I wouldn't say 'shy', but she's not at all boisterous or rough in her play. She likes toys and being chased

I might have to take you up on that offer in the near future :) sounds like your girl would be a good playmate!

[minimiss]

Hopefully one of the regulars can recommend a school as I'm only around the corner in Caroline Springs and will be looking soon. Good luck!

At least you know where not to go

Good luck also in your search! There has to be a good school somewhere in our neck of the woods!

[BC Crazy]

I minded a Pom girl for a lady who went into hospital a while ago & haven't had any experience with toy's as I have only ever had BC's, she was a delight to have around.

So small though, walking her was like walking something almost wined-up

I would be finding another puppy school. There is no way a puppy should be pushed into 'meeting other dogs 3 times it's size.He could easily have broken something. Like us, all pups are different & they meet & interact

differently. Doesn't mean there is anything to be worried about. My boy mixed really well right from the start, where as my girl wants to dominate (little miss bossy boots). I did find puppy school a bit boring to tell you the

truth but there is only one around here & you guessed it, it is run by a vet nurse. I took my boy but didn't bother with my girl.

Just a word of advice, which I learned after a bad experience I had at the hands of a so called 'obedience trainer'. I never let ANYONE handle my dogs,pick them up, or take their lead. Ever.

I know that sounds a bit extremeist but it's your dog, you know them better then anyone & every experience it has, good or bad, is your responsibility.

Enjoy your new puppy. I think they are just the cutest littely's & sounds like you are on the right track as he is already focusing on you. :D

Edited January 6, 2012 by BC Crazy

[Simply Grand]

I know no one's saying they're all bad, but just to show there are some very good puppy schools run by vet nurses, I took both my boys to puppy pre-school (4 weekly sessions) at one of the vet surgeries here (Hall Vet) and it was great! The lady running it was a nurse at the surgery when Saxon went through and had the other nurses/assistants helping her. By the time Riley went through she had left the surgery to operate on her own as a trainer but kept running the pre-schools through the surgery because she enjoyed it and thought it valuable. She was teaching the other staff how to run the classes to.

It was very professionally run, good control over the puppies and appropriate opportunities for interaction as well as lots of advice on positive reinforcement training, socialisation, health and grooming

Unfortunately doesn't help you minimiss, but don't be disheartened, it's all learning for you and Benny

[Simply Grand]

Also just remembered, in Riley's class we had a Pit Bull puppy (legal in ACT) and the instructor made a big effort to 1) make it clear that he was just like any other pup, no different because of his breed and therefore no one seemed to feel uncomfortable around hin at all; and 2) give the owner lots of advice on how to best train the pup. She checked with him specifically every week at the end of the class and asked lots of questions, I think at first he was having some problems as his family had Pit Bulls more as guard dogs that lived outside but he wanted his pup to be very much an indoor pet. The instructor was great at encouraging him to keep coming to class and keep learning, and you could see the pup responding better and better to him as the weeks went on :D

ETA - sorry to hijack!!

Edited January 6, 2012 by Saxonpup

[BC Crazy]

I am sure there are plenty of great vet run puppy schools around & as you say Saxonpup, it's all a learning curve.

[minimiss]

Sounds like you had a wonderful puppy preschool teacher, Saxonpup! Especially with the Pit Bull puppy. If only we had more classes who educated people on the not so 'evil' Pit Bulls there wouldn't be such a frenzy here about them. Also if only we had more owners who want Pit Bulls as pets rather than just breeding them poorly / training them to be vicious guard dogs...

I think it really must be like any industry - you'll get your fantastic workers that stand out, and you'll get your pretty crappy ones.

I'll keep doing my research and in the meantime, next Tuesday's session is fast approaching and I'm curious to see how this other vet nurse runs the class. I'll be sure to update on that session!

[espinay2]

The quality of the puppy pre scool classes can vary a lot depending on the knowledge of the people running them.

I would not necessarily call this puppy shy. I have seen a LOT of puppies in puppy preschool classes who in the first week want nothing to do with the other puppies. If allowed to take their own time, generally over the next few sessions they begin to be more bold and by the end are playing with the best of them. 'Shyness' in some puppies in the first classes is to be expected and there will be at least one in most classes. Personally I don't mind a pup that hangs back, looks and assesses before engaging in play. Many of these pups, IMO, if allowed to engage in their own time, can become some of the better mannered pups.

A note - my biggest beef with puppy pre school is that many of them are largely a free for all play session. Play is good, particularly when it is controlled play, but I have noticed that puppies coming from pre school classes also tend to rush up to other dogs as they think - puppy play time! By not controlling the socialisation encounters, some puppy pre schools IMO are helping to create 'rude dogs'.

[Topoftheheap]

it sounds to me as if your puppy is very well balanced and comfortable with his surrondings. i wouldn't describe the behaviour you describe as shy but rather cautious and for a puppy his age that is perfectly ok. I have nothing against vet nurses (my sister is a vet nurse, but sometimes the ones that run the puppy pre-schools aren't even fully trained yet) but sometimes they don't know everything!!!

[Guest donatella]

I think small dogs have some perception of just how little they are (especially at 1kg pom). My idiot is quick to bark at the big guys but squeals when they come charging at her. Benny sounds smart let's just hope he doesn't get a 'voice' anytime soon

[aussielover]

Puppies don't really need to play with other puppies (once they go to their new homes at 8 weeks). While it may be nice for them if they enjoy it, I don't think it is essential to their well being.

At my puppy school, there was only one other pup my girl actually liked playing with (another lab). She completely ignored the smaller puppies and the other larger puppy was very dominating so she didn't really play with it.

I would never force a puppy to interact with another puppy. One of the main aims of puppy school is to make puppies see other dogs as a good thing or at not least scary at all. I actually think its more valuable to ave the puppies interact with a well balanced older dog, rather than play with each other. Also, puppies should be allowed to play as a reward only- for good effort in the actual training/learning part of the class.

I would not take my puppy back to a school such as the one the OP described

[minimiss]

Ah yes, 2nd Puppy preschool session - What a mistake. It seriously made the first class seem so wonderful and I left almost in tears. I'm not usually one to become distressed easily, but I think this was an appropriate time if ever there was a time to get distressed so forgive me if I ramble and don't make sense! I just felt like I was in some kind of alternative universe!!

There were more puppies this week... and a LOT more bogan owners. The vet nurse said she was a part time vet nurse who 'sometimes got called in to do puppy class so we must forgive her for reading from the book'.

I don't know where to start, so let me get started on some of the delightful owners. There was this gorgeous 'Cattle Dog X GSD' that was so gentle, but very vocal (as they are) so the bogan owner grabbed the puppies lower jaw and squeezed it til the puppy yelped Vet nurse looked on, didn't say a word. Another instance this owner punched the puppy in the shoulder and told it to 'shut it's mouth'. Vet nurse still didn't say a word. I didn't either, but I didn't think it was my place to start conflict with this woman who was quite rough and loud (I'm pretty quiet on a good day let alone a day like this). The Vet nurse could have constructively suggested a more positive training method...

Then there was a 'discussion' about what each of the owners fed their puppies. Varied responses from Black Hawk, to mid range stuff, to Pal... And then some guy who said he feeds his Beagle 'A variety of beef sausages, 'those red hotdogs' and a roast chicken from Woolies once a week. The Vet nurse didn't suggest alternatives, she just said 'oh yes, I bet he loves the marinated types of meat'. WTF?!?!?!?!

On to the Vet nurse... She rambled on a lot and a lot of the owners, and puppies got very bored and everyone just switched off and talked to their children (lots of children at this session) or their dogs. So the Vet nurse decided to get onto the training. Benny and I had already done this type of training at home, so we did some more of the same things, using the high distraction situation as a good change to really cement these things (lay down and stay). The Vet nurse came around to each of the dogs and tried to get them to 'drop and stay' for her. No dogs listened to her, and a few listened to their owners but they were really excitable and weren't really interested in doing anything but play with the children that were there, and eat the treats. When she got to Benny she said 'Oh this is the shy dog I was told about from last week.. IS HE GOING TO DO ANYTHING THIS WEEK OR JUST SIT THERE?!?!' ... ($#@^&*#%@ ) So she tried to get him to 'drop and stay' for her and he wasn't interested. She said to me that he must be a terribly stubborn dog to train.. So I said to Benny without acknowledging her 'Benny, Lay down' (He laid down perfectly) ... 'Benny, Stay!' .. and I walked away to the middle of the room, and he stayed. I then told her he was a breeze to train and I'm really quite happy that he only takes commands from me as it would be very concerning if someone told him to 'come' and give him ratsak etc etc. She said (jokingly) 'There is always a smart ass advanced puppy in the class and Benny may take that award'... I just ignored her at that point.

At the end of the class there was a Q&A session and the people with the gorgeous SBT from last week asked what they should do about their puppy at night time as they've got him in the spare room and he just cries all night. They then asked about Crate training as many people have told them that this was the way to go. She goes 'OH NO... I DON'T BELIEVE IN CRATE TRAINING - ONLY CRAZY FANATICAL BREEDERS DO THAT SORT OF THING'... (WTF?!?! Excuse me!).

I couldn't not say anything anymore and I said 'Well, I crate train Benny, he settles at night time in his crate beside his bed, and he is toilet trained at night time due to this aswell, it was a godsend for me, I also know many breeders AND experienced pet owners who crate train, and have done so very successfully'. (I don't 'know' but DOL counts as people I know right? :p) But she didn't say anything more and wrapped up the class. The SBT owners came up to me and discussed crate training and were quite interested in starting to train.. So that's a positive.

I really will not be going back for another class. They're lucky that their facilities and wonderful Vets (and some of the nurses) are redeeming points for them.

Sorry about the long winded rant - I had to vent..

[Chequeredblackdog]

OH MY GOD! Your rxperience makes me so mad! I'm glad (for that stupid sh*t of a "vet nurse" that I wasn't there!)If I were you I would DEFINITELY have a " Word" to the practice owner! or at least someone in charge! The running of that "Puppy preschool" is more than terrible! I just hope neither of you were too traumatised by the whole situation!

[Cosmolo]

Complain to the practice manager. Nothing will ever change if people in charge don't know its a problem.