All Experience And Advice Needed.

[puglvr]

The situation is my pug girl has just gone 7 weeks in whelp. Yesterday she had a green discharge. Into the emergency vet we went. Had a progesterone test done and that is fine. Her temp was 37.4. She is dilated and vets weren't convinced there were good heartbeats. She was not in labour.

In to my own vet today and she is still the same. Temp the same, dilated, no active labour but the vet found that one pup had no heartbeat but the other 3 or 4 were fine. Obviously, a c-section at this time will mean losing the litter. The bitch is fine in herself, happy and active, eating and drinking well. Haidee's health is the top priority here but we also want to give the pups a fighting chance. We are hoping to get her as close as we can to the due date befor doing a c-section.

Does any one have any experience or advice on getting her there? Also all the help and advice on helping possible premmie babies get the best start possible would be greatly appreciated.

Ohh and lots of positive vibes for Haidee would be good.

[cowanbree]

I have had the green discharge and low temperature in a bitch of mine. My vet said as long as she was eating and happy enough within herself and there was no temperature spike to just monitor her. She had a slight green discharge right up until I did a c-section but all the puppies were fine and the vet could see no reason for the green discharge.

Her wellbeing was always the most important thing and I was prepared to c-section her straight away and spay if it come to that but at no time was she distressed so it was a waiting game. At the time I did a post on DOL but not sure if they keep them that far back but there would be more exact details on that

Found my post

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/184448-whelping-issues/page__p__4192565__hl__%2Bgreen+%2Bdischarge__fromsearch__1#entry4192565

Edited December 27, 2011 by cowanbree

[dancinbcs]

My guess would be the placenta from the puppy that has died, has separated from the unterus and caused the green discharge. If the bitch seems fine and not in labour and the other puppies are still alive I would monitor her closely and pray she can hold them for another 2 weeks.

Good luck.

[Fordogs]

Did your vet give her antibiotics? JMO I would have liked her on ABs if she were mine.

Best wishes for a healthy litter. :crossfingers:

I would keep a check on her temp, watch that she doesn't go off her food and check her gums colour.

Last year I had a bitch that developed a high temp 8 days before she was due (vet check and all ok) the next day she went into early labor and deliver 8 puppies 4 were not able to be revived, one of those was born with a very shriveled up blackened sack and it was filled with faeces. That puppy had caused her high temp and the early delivery of the puppies. Not meaning to scare you sorry.

[dancinbcs]

Did your vet give her antibiotics? JMO I would have liked her on ABs if she were mine.

Best wishes for a healthy litter. :crossfingers:

I would keep a check on her temp, watch that she doesn't go off her food and check her gums colour.

Last year I had a bitch that developed a high temp 8 days before she was due (vet check and all ok) the next day she went into early labor and deliver 8 puppies 4 were not able to be revived, one of those was born with a very shriveled up blackened sack and it was filled with faeces. That puppy had caused her high temp and the early delivery of the puppies. Not meaning to scare you sorry.

Giving ABs at this stage can ruin the teeth of the puppies. There is no need for ABs unless she has a high temp or shows signs of infection and at the moment she has neither. The green discharge is from a placenta breaking down, not from an infection.

[Andisa]

Fingers crossed that Haidee can hold on for as long as possible.

I had a Rottweiler litter 6 days premature and that was pretty borderline in my opinion. Send me a message if you would like and I can tell you what we did.

Good luck.

eta: Hopefully this link will be of some use, I received so much advice and support in here, it's rather long though.

My link

Edited December 28, 2011 by Andisa

[LizT]

My guess would be the placenta from the puppy that has died, has separated from the unterus and caused the green discharge. If the bitch seems fine and not in labour and the other puppies are still alive I would monitor her closely and pray she can hold them for another 2 weeks.

Good luck.

Many a litter has had a macerated pup included, if they are being C-sectioned it will reduce the risk of them taking in any of the discharge during birth.

Hope they can hang in there. It will be a long two weeks for you, but you have every chance of a happy outcome with this situation.

[puglvr]

Thanks everyone. Still sitting here with all fingers and toes crossed. I would have prefered Haidee to go on antibiotics but the vet said no. His reasoning was that it would mask any developing infection. He has me monitoring her tempreture and keeping an eye out for her going off food and acting lethargic. Have his mobile number for out of hours. She is going back in tomorrow for an ultrasound to check heartbeats.

We are planning to do a c-section and are hoping to get as close to the 9th as possible. The discharge is down to almost nothing. The vet thinks/hopes that the uterus will cocoon the dead pup and hopefully that will help keep out infection.

Haidee is doing well, doesn't know there is anything wrong. She is happily eating and sleeping and loving all the attention from mum.

Every day is one day closer. I'm staying as positive as I can.

Andisa I will sit down and read your post thoroughly because I believe this is the best way to learn. I remeber last Christmas I was hand raising the premmie rescue babies and Belinda assured me that they would suck from a human premmie bottle and they did. Have still got all the stuff for the Leerburg formula. And beef liver tea cubes frozen ready to go.

The advice we get fromdogzonline and other breeders is priceless.

[sandgrubber]

Giving ABs at this stage can ruin the teeth of the puppies. There is no need for ABs unless she has a high temp or shows signs of infection and at the moment she has neither. The green discharge is from a placenta breaking down, not from an infection.

Good luck with the litter!

I can't remember which antibiotics are ok and which endanger teeth, but I'm pretty sure some ABs are safe. Amoxicillin and Clavulox are ok if I remember right. But don't go on my advice. I'm just kicking the can down the road. Someone else will have more info.

Edited January 1, 2012 by sandgrubber

[Christina]

Not had this but many years ago a girl had a litter 2 weeks early. Pups were alive but vet said let them go. Too many problems develop this prematurely. Lungs may not be functional, long term health may not be good & they may die despite all efforts. Very sad.

On the plus side another girl had 3 litters all 6 days early. Seemed the usual for her & they were all good sizes & well & thrived.

Fingers crossed for you. What a worry.

[LizT]

I read a story online recently about a woman who managed to save one premmy from a litter. Most complicated involving making an oxygen tent/incubator, oiling the skin and special formula. A whippet from memory that grew into a healthy adult.

Certainly an effort of the heart and not the head. But sometimes we think with our hearts. Not necessarily the right thing but sometimes we feel we must try.

Remember each day that passes is positive.

[Steve]

I had a beagle bitch who ALWAYS lost a puppy or two like this and went on to have the rest of the puppies on the due date - without a C section. The first time I was like you are now but in her next three litters just shrugged it off and said there she goes again.

Its only one class of ABs which will damage the teeth and they are unlikely to be used for this type of thing. I'm not sure I agree with your vet re not giving AB's but so be it .Id be going for the protexin.

I think you're going to be O.K. and if you can wait until her temp drops and you are sure she is in early stages of starting labour before you C section you have a greater chance of getting the puppies through. The hormones which are released as the bitch goes into labour are better left to do their job so dont be in too much of a hurry to run at it.

You can make oxygen tents - Ive used a plastic sponge cake cone thingy - you know those plastic things that go over cakes you buy at a store to keep em fresh, cut a small hole in the rim to insert an oxygen tube.It works great if you get one that's a bit slow to start and is a bit blue and is good to see the colour change to pink but by the time you get them home that should be all over as you would hope what ever is needed to help them survive is provided at the vet post op.

If they are premmy and can suck a premmy bottle teat they can suck Mum which is much preferable so Id be making sure that you have the equipment you need to tube feed in case you need it.

In your position right now Id be making sure I do as much as I could to ensure her immune system is the best it can be. Anything at all you can think of which will help to be sure she has the right nutrients, no stress and she spends her last two weeks in the lap of luxury is a good thing.

[SilverHaze]

Sorry to go a little off topic but can someone point me in the direction of more info re antibiotics causing damage to puppies teeth? We had a bitch who was placed on AB's about 2 weeks prior to her due date - two pups were dead before the due date, and of the 4 surviving pups, 3 have discoloured teeth. One also has a ring of the top layer of the tooth missing on one of her canines - but we thought this could be caused by a snake bite she suffered at 13 weeks of age. I had never heard about the AB''s causing teeth damage before.

[LizT]

Sorry to go a little off topic but can someone point me in the direction of more info re antibiotics causing damage to puppies teeth? We had a bitch who was placed on AB's about 2 weeks prior to her due date - two pups were dead before the due date, and of the 4 surviving pups, 3 have discoloured teeth. One also has a ring of the top layer of the tooth missing on one of her canines - but we thought this could be caused by a snake bite she suffered at 13 weeks of age. I had never heard about the AB''s causing teeth damage before.

I know that tetracycline (used to treat acne) can cause discolorations and/or flecking on the teeth of those treated with it.

[puglvr]

Just an update.

Mum is still going well. Her temp has been in a consistent range throughout. No spikes. She is eating and drinking well. And yes living the life of luxury, that she normally lives anyway. Had an ultra sound today to check heatbeats and yes they are going well. Has only had a small amount of green discharge since initial episode.

We are opting for a c-section on Friday at 11am. A few reasons. Even though 63 days is monday, she was prog tested and had one natural mating 48 hours after ovulation, so we are working on 61 days, which is Saturday. She went day 60 her last litter, and she was a silent whelper. No usual signs of impending birth,no sound during and 3 babies delivered before it was noticed. (Another story).

Also the vet could feel the dead pup and it's basically the first presented. Just keeping fingers crossed everything waits until then.

[dancinbcs]

Just an update.

Mum is still going well. Her temp has been in a consistent range throughout. No spikes. She is eating and drinking well. And yes living the life of luxury, that she normally lives anyway. Had an ultra sound today to check heatbeats and yes they are going well. Has only had a small amount of green discharge since initial episode.

We are opting for a c-section on Friday at 11am. A few reasons. Even though 63 days is monday, she was prog tested and had one natural mating 48 hours after ovulation, so we are working on 61 days, which is Saturday. She went day 60 her last litter, and she was a silent whelper. No usual signs of impending birth,no sound during and 3 babies delivered before it was noticed. (Another story).

Also the vet could feel the dead pup and it's basically the first presented. Just keeping fingers crossed everything waits until then.

Pregnancy is 63 days from ovulation, regardless of mating time, so day 63 will be Saturday, not Monday. If the first puppy is the dead one she is likely to struggle to get it out so a wise plan to do the caesar on Friday. Hope all goes well.

[hilaryo]

Best of luck with your litter Puglvr - hope all goes well

Re the AB's when bitch is in whelp affecting the puppies teeth.

With her first litter my girl was on Clavulox from day 28 until a 5 days after whelping with no problems with the puppies teeth or anything else. She was given protexin when she had finished the tablets and the pups were given a small amount of acidophilus yogurt.

I agree that it is better to avoid AB's where possible.

[LizT]

Just an update.

Mum is still going well. Her temp has been in a consistent range throughout. No spikes. She is eating and drinking well. And yes living the life of luxury, that she normally lives anyway. Had an ultra sound today to check heatbeats and yes they are going well. Has only had a small amount of green discharge since initial episode.

We are opting for a c-section on Friday at 11am. A few reasons. Even though 63 days is monday, she was prog tested and had one natural mating 48 hours after ovulation, so we are working on 61 days, which is Saturday. She went day 60 her last litter, and she was a silent whelper. No usual signs of impending birth,no sound during and 3 babies delivered before it was noticed. (Another story).

Also the vet could feel the dead pup and it's basically the first presented. Just keeping fingers crossed everything waits until then.

Not long now!

[mini girl]

Hope everything has gone ok.

[puglvr]

Haidee had 2 boys by c-section on Thursday. Babies have dropped weight but are going well so far. Haidee had to be spayed as the horn with the dead pup was like soup and the risk of infection was too great. In fact the vet thought if she had tried to push puppies out she may have ruptured her uterus. we had to go back to th vet today as her temp went to 39.5 We mainly think due to pain so she was given more pain relief and more AB's and her temp came down. She has eaten a little and is interested in cleaning pups ect. Fingers crossed she is on the improve.