Hunting Dogs Attack 5 People In Rampage

[lovemymutts]

this is too funny!

[brother fox]

so where are these dedicated breeders? Put your money where your mouth is!

Mostly in Western Victoria and South Australia.

[Mags]

That's not really giving anyone anywhere to follow up. How do we find examples of these dogs and their breeders when they don't have websites, don't advertise and don't appear to sell their dogs? Happy to read up on these dogs but you say there is no documentation? I am assuming there is a central registry somewhere and contact details available if there are people trying to save this "rare breed".

[Rebanne]

That's not really giving anyone anywhere to follow up. How do we find examples of these dogs and their breeders when they don't have websites, don't advertise and don't appear to sell their dogs? Happy to read up on these dogs but you say there is no documentation? I am assuming there is a central registry somewhere and contact details available if there are people trying to save this "rare breed".

and with some (most?) aged over 90 you would think they would be trying to get new people interested in perserving this very old 'breed'

[Alyosha]

So "the staghound was never made up of several breeds" yet was produced by crossing other breeds, with "most success when crossing the greyhound dog over a deerhound bitch". Hmmm.

Other trains of thought include borzoi and Irish wolfhounds also being used in crossbreeding for staghound production. Doesn't sound much like they were made up of several breeds... ;)

I will still contend that the term staghound is similar in use to the term lurcher or longdog in the UK. A cross bred type, bred for a purpose. That doesn't take away from the great work that these crosses have done, feeding families etc. Great working dogs don't necessarily have to belong to a "breed".

A type is a very, very different thing to a breed. Breeds, even those not offered recognition by governing bodies, have studooks, and documented histories. Even hand written histories are vital to actual breeds. To types no. Their "history" is passed largely by word of mouth, which is again a very different, variable and unreliable thing.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Alyosha

[brother fox]

With the Staghound being Australia,s first breed of dog that was well established between the time of first settlement 1788 and 1840, that puts to bed the "theory" that Wolfhound,Borzoi or even Saluki blood was used in it,s creation. Captain Graham( born in 1833), did not start to recreate the long extinct Great Irish Wolfdog untill 1859, the first Borzoi did not reach Australia until 1898 and the first pair of Saluki did not reach England until 1840. So that rules out any other large breeds of sighthound being used in its creation other than the Greyhound and the Deerhound and with the Staghound being no smaller than 28 inches at the shoulder it rules out any other breed of the time period being used. A lurcher has always been a cross of a sighthound and a working breed and a longdog has always been a cross of two different sighthounds but lurchers and sighthounds are "types" rather than a breed which is a group within a species having common characteristics like the Staghound.

[Alyosha]

:rolleyes:

[lovemymutts]

:rolleyes:

x2, no point in discussing this point any further. People will believe what they want. ;)

[anniek]

I think I would very much like one - could you put me in touch with a breeder please?

[Maddy]

I think I would very much like one - could you put me in touch with a breeder please?

You can't just be put in touch with a staghound breeder, sheesh :rolleyes:

It's an elite and very secretive society where only those proven worthy will be contacted for initiation (I believe they send you a message with an owl? Something like that).

As for the rest of us muggles.. I guess we'll have to put up with our horrible "new" greyhounds.

[anniek]

I think I would very much like one - could you put me in touch with a breeder please?

You can't just be put in touch with a staghound breeder, sheesh :rolleyes:

It's an elite and very secretive society where only those proven worthy will be contacted for initiation (I believe they send you a message with an owl? Something like that).

As for the rest of us muggles.. I guess we'll have to put up with our horrible "new" greyhounds.

thanks for that info HA - we have lots of owls around here - I will keep watching for a newby on the block :D

[brother fox]

The last thing a "WORKING" breed needs is a central registry or KC recognition as all breeds who have been down this path have been ruined forever from their original purpose. Working breeds like the red barb, black barb, other native herding breeds and more recently the Patterdale Terrier have survived in their original form in Australia without a registry because they have always been kept by enthusiasts who work their animals for their original purpose like the Mareetsane and the Boergreyhound has been in South Africa. All anyone needs to do to aquire one of these rare working breeds to show as much enthusiasm as the people who continue to breed these dogs rather than wait for that owl to arrive.

[chevorne]

The last thing a "WORKING" breed needs is a central registry or KC recognition as all breeds who have been down this path have been ruined forever from their original purpose. Working breeds like the red barb, black barb, other native herding breeds and more recently the Patterdale Terrier have survived in their original form in Australia without a registry because they have always been kept by enthusiasts who work their animals for their original purpose like the Mareetsane and the Boergreyhound has been in South Africa. All anyone needs to do to aquire one of these rare working breeds to show as much enthusiasm as the people who continue to breed these dogs rather than wait for that owl to arrive.

oh Dear! who told you all this?

further proof that the general public believes whatever they are told as long as the teller appears to know and can spout out the knowledge in an apparently educated manner.

And hunting dogs bred in Australia before working dogs? Plenty of documented proof on the working dogs, so should be able to find plenty on the hunting dog history.

I think sometimes people forget their medication in the mornings.

[fifi]

Aaaah, the romance of having some facts & lots of fiction !

Staghound is a type, not a breed.

Yes, my uncles had kangaroo dogs & staghounds they bred on from, but every now & again a deerhound or whatever sighthound X was available would be infused into the mix.

They used to lose more than a few dogs to roos and hunting accidents, My uncle is still alive and he doesn't have access to these secret squirrel breeders, and he never called his dogs purebred staghounds....funnily enough !!

fifi

[Maddy]

The last thing a "WORKING" breed needs is a central registry or KC recognition as all breeds who have been down this path have been ruined forever from their original purpose. Working breeds like the red barb, black barb, other native herding breeds and more recently the Patterdale Terrier have survived in their original form in Australia without a registry because they have always been kept by enthusiasts who work their animals for their original purpose like the Mareetsane and the Boergreyhound has been in South Africa. All anyone needs to do to aquire one of these rare working breeds to show as much enthusiasm as the people who continue to breed these dogs rather than wait for that owl to arrive.

The boerwindhond looks (from all the pictures I've found) to be nothing more than a regular greyhound, backyard bred for a purpose. Supposedly they're larger but from the photos I've seen, either they breed their people equally big over there or the dogs are the same size as the ones here.

That said, breeding bigger greyhounds is no amazing feat of secret-sqirrel dedication and work anyway. Breed big to big, rinse, repeat- get dogs larger than the standard. Or just crossbreed to deerhounds- bit tricky getting your wire coat type without that in there, I suppose. Getting endurance out of the dog is the same deal.

Breed me back a coated greyhound (without cheating and using any other breed in there) and then I'll be impressed. The mystical "proper deerhound" is just crossbred dogs being bred together over several generations to make more crossbred dogs. A crossbred doesn't become a purebred just by banging out a few generations worth (otherwise Australian Cattle Staffies (the pound favourite) and Labradoodles would be well on their way to becoming proper breeds).

[brother fox]

oh Dear! who told you all this?

further proof that the general public believes whatever they are told as long as the teller appears to know and can spout out the knowledge in an apparently educated manner.

And hunting dogs bred in Australia before working dogs? Plenty of documented proof on the working dogs, so should be able to find plenty on the hunting dog history.

I think sometimes people forget their medication in the mornings.

Oh dear! Just facts based on dates in Australia,s history rather than a fiction and hearsay. The first settlers didn,t have a Macdonald,s or a Kentucky Fried Chicken outlet under every 2nd gum tree to survive on and they certainly didn,t rely on their own stock to survive. Priority would of been for a hunting dog to survive rather than a herding dog for the small numbers of animals they possessed. Do a little bit of research on the early newspapers and the journals and diaries of our first explorers and road builders but firstly make that long awaited trip to the medicine cabinet. ;)

[Mags]

The problem I am having is despite what was happening 200 yrs ago - you are unable to point us at either current breeders or documented histories for these dogs. And that is despite me and others asking you for any information about these dogs as we were genuinely interested. But you just say nothing is documented and vaguely point at western Vic and SA for breeders. Both documented histories and breeders who are still breeding for purpose are available for herding breeds that started in our early colonial days which seems at odds with what you are saying about staghounds as a breed.

And I do not understand your comments about working breed registries - whilst conformation registries can be responsible for dogs moving far from their original base, working registries still are just that a registry of dogs doing the job they have been bred for from day dot.

Growing up in rural Australia I can tell you that most that care about what they breed keep detailed records of their stock regardless of species. Our family still have documentation from my great grandfather from the first decade of the 1900's which detail his purchases & breedings of not just cattle and sheep but also of his horses and his dogs. I still remember being shocked when I first saw what he paid for good horses and dogs back then especially compared to what he paid his stockman for their labour. And was told his simple philosophy - a good dog (or horse) does the work of three good men so pay for the best you can afford and look after them well for their life time - you will be repaid well and many times over what they cost you.

[brother fox]

Aaaah, the romance of having some facts & lots of fiction !

Staghound is a type, not a breed.

Yes, my uncles had kangaroo dogs & staghounds they bred on from, but every now & again a deerhound or whatever sighthound X was available would be infused into the mix.

They used to lose more than a few dogs to roos and hunting accidents, My uncle is still alive and he doesn't have access to these secret squirrel breeders, and he never called his dogs purebred staghounds....funnily enough !!

fifi

Aaaah, the facts. At least your uncle was knowledgable enough to know that the cross bred dogs they bred on from were not purebred Staghounds but just cross bred Running dogs, Kangaroo dogs or Mongrels for the want of a better name and that he was happy with their performance just like the "type" of dogs that many people still breed today for hunting. It,s a pity he didn,t have the knowledge to actually know what a Staghound was and what traits the breed possessed to pass that knowledge onto yourself and others.....

[fifi]

:laugh: you assume an awful lot ! as Mags said, show us the kennel records or photo history or these breeders who possess this secret knowledge.

I can assure you my uncles, especially one old fella, knew his dogs, he also knew his dog people and I'm sure would have known via the bush telegraph what other dog fella's were doing.

fifi

[brother fox]

:laugh: you assume an awful lot ! as Mags said, show us the kennel records or photo history or these breeders who possess this secret knowledge.

I can assure you my uncles, especially one old fella, knew his dogs, he also knew his dog people and I'm sure would have known via the bush telegraph what other dog fella's were doing.

fifi

I never assume anything as assumption is the mother of all stuff ups. Your uncle may have known his dogs, known his dog people and known his bush telegraph but what he obviously didn,t know was any knowledge about the Staghound and it,s history.