~*Shell*~ Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I have a pound dog and my next will be a registered puppy. I plan to keep on rescuing sibes though I'm not sure when the next one will be. I understand why the extremists say the things they do but I don't agree with them. Rescue dogs aren't for everyone. Zero was very very broken when I got him. I shudder to think what he would have done in a home where he could do whatever he liked and where his issues weren't properly dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Unless registered breeders are now in the business of breeding mutts, there's no way they contribute to the population at my local pound. I check the inmates photos every day in hope of finding my missing cat, and the dogs are a mix of staffy x, jrt x, Lab x and generic pig dog along with a sprinkling of pit bulls, fluffy x's and the occasional American bulldog. Rarely is there anything that remotely resembles a dog with a decent pedigree. I didn't put them there and I won't be made to feel guilty for not wanting to own one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelsquest Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 There was quite an interesting exchange a few weeks ago on the DogsVic site with a particular rescue group that was told it could not bring its adoptable dogs to the BigDay Out for Dogs run by DogsVic (for a number of reasons, apparently). Anyway, in the enshewing chaos and abuse, a letter was posted by the head of the rescue group which effectively accused Dogs Vic members and registered breeders of using dodgey vets, being puppy farmers, not vaccinating puppies or taking appropriate care of litters and animals in our care (etc etc). There was a heap of abuse aimed at registered breeders and DogsVic by the supporters of this group - there was even a post asking if it was true that Dogs Vic was selling unwanted dogs for scientific experiments! So I have to say, while I generally do support the work of rescue groups (noting members of our breed club have been involved in breed rescues and its part of the Club's mission) I was pretty much revolted by the abuse laid on by this group, there was certainly a feeling of PETA to it all.... Yup, what a saga that was, it put me completely off the rescue group, which was one I had previously supported. when I post such things on my fb, and I do quite often, I always say either adopt a dog from a rescue org/shelter and or buy from a registered and ethical breeder, just don't from pet shops and BYB's.. I don't think my posts are offending anyone, well apart from those that have bought from pet shops... Jules, I don't think that is offensive at all, as you are not saying a shelter/rescue dog is the only way to go. The current one I have seen doing the rounds on FB is "don't buy while shelter dogs die" and the comments following are stating that getting a dog from a breeder is in fact "killing" a shelter dog. That kind of comment is unfair, untrue and unwarranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I would like to rescue another dog at some point, but frankly I am terrified to considering the problems I have had with Zoe. I don't need another experience like that. Sure I know a LOT more now than I did before, but I am scared to risk it. If I ever do it would not be another puppy, and I would have someone I know and trust to help me assess the dog. There is a lot involved in what I would like to do with the dog, I do not need to be dealing with major issues as well. Edited December 21, 2011 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemymutts Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 There are extremists on both sides of the camp - please don't tarnish all rescue with the same brush as those rescue extremists resorting to emotional blackmail. Responsible and ethical rescue, and breed rescue are still doing wonderful things, without those doing that great work having their work undermined by extremists. Nor should good breeders (that also assist or support rescue of their breed) be painted with the same brush as byb's or less ethical breeders. I think it IS very important to remember that not everyone involved in rescue believes it. Sadly though there are some in rescue who think that you're terrible because you breed and some in the show/breeding world who think its terrible if you rescue. Can't please everyone so in the end you just have to please yourself. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellazpupz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Unless registered breeders are now in the business of breeding mutts, there's no way they contribute to the population at my local pound. I check the inmates photos every day in hope of finding my missing cat, and the dogs are a mix of staffy x, jrt x, Lab x and generic pig dog along with a sprinkling of pit bulls, fluffy x's and the occasional American bulldog. Rarely is there anything that remotely resembles a dog with a decent pedigree. Good Call Gayle. I looked into rescuing a dog... but with kids I couldn't take the risk with all the X whatever's that I couldn't view their parents etc. not that I'm saying they can't be great pets. But being 'Responsible' is knowing that the dog you take on you can handle for its whole life, A breeder can give me that! At this stage of my families life... I choose an ethical Breeder, that is selective with the dogs they mate, because health and temperament etc. I'm saddened when I see facebook ranting... its a waste of time. And people can be so cruel over the internet... It's so sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverchips Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I am very suspicious of groups like Animal Liberation, OL, PETA etc. because they often they are lead by extremists who sucker good intentioned people into believing that it's just the 'bad' or 'unethical' breeders they are going after when in fact they want to ban all breeding and in some cases all pet ownership because they believe no animal should be 'owned' by anyone. It's time breeders starting asking these groups some questions before blindly giving them our support because one day I believe that their true intentions will be shown and they will turn on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I would like to rescue another dog at some point, but frankly I am terrified to considering the problems I have had with Zoe. I don't need another experience like that. Sure I know a LOT more now than I did before, but I am scared to risk it. If I ever do it would not be another puppy, and I would have someone I know and trust to help me assess the dog. There is a lot involved in what I would like to do with the dog, I do not need to be dealing with major issues as well. I'm sorry you have had such a bad experience with rescue. My suggestion is to find a good one next time. Your reluctance to rescue again because you went to the wrong rescue organisation is is just as bad as the ones telling people not to go to any breeders because there are some bad ones around. All people buying dogs need to do their research, there are dodgy rescues and dodgy breeders out there. Just because you dealt with an unethical rescue means that they are all like that. Nobody needs to deal with major dog issues, and so ethical rescue is conducted in a way that is going to reduce the chance of problems happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Start a topic whinging about (a few) rescuers that lump all breeders in together, then take a swipe at rescue as a whole, saying it's too risky for you? Most hypocritical thread ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 I don't think the rescue was unethical - I don't think Zoe's issues could really have been foreseen as a puppy so much. She was a bit timid and skittish (always hid under bed/scared of storms and fireworks etc), but her biggest problem of dog aggression didn't surface until around 5-6 months. Really the only thing they did wrong was assuming that all Kelpie crosses were going to be suitable for sports. If I had known better what to look for in a sports dog I would not have chosen her. I would have changed how I dealt with her socialisation too, but I really only did what most people would think is reasonable unless/until they have an experience which proves otherwise (going to dog parks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Start a topic whinging about (a few) rescuers that lump all breeders in together, then take a swipe at rescue as a whole, saying it's too risky for you? Most hypocritical thread ever. I said I would be more likely to find a suitable dog through a breeder. The temperament problems I have had with Zoe do occur in Kelpies, and it is something you have to be aware of and look for. Kelpies are my current breed of choice. I would like to avoid those temperament problems. Having been burnt once, I am hesitant to again purchase an unknown dog. I am sure anyone would do the same. I WOULD get a Greyhound through rescue as I know how carefully they are vetted and that they are generally gentle dogs and I would not be doing the same thing with a Greyhound as my Kelpies. Edited December 21, 2011 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 There are rescue groups placing young adult rescue dogs just as carefully as I was placing greyhounds. It's important to ask questions about what they do to avoid problems in the dogs they rehome. I think there is a problem with buying a puppy of unknown breeding for a particular purpose, or even as a pet. Some rescuers will disagree, but I can't see how you can always weed out the puppies that will develop serious problems later. Once you have an adult dog, a good foster home assessment will give you the best possible understanding of every facet of the dog's temperament. Whether the dog is a pound rescue, a surrendered dog, or a dog run on by its breeder. It takes weeks to understand the dog and see it in a range of situations. I guess I am sensitive to this topic after reading a lengthy topic in the Rescue Forum here, where many rescuers are upset at what a minority of 'rescuers' are doing on Facebook and how the over-zealous ideas and activities of some 'rescuer's can lead to big problems for new dog owners. The difference between ethical and unethical rescue is as big as the difference between ethical and unethical breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 I agree that there are more risks with getting a puppy, if I do rescue again it would be a young adult, which I would get carefully temperament tested. I had also assumed that a Kelpie X would have a suitable temperament for sports, I didn't know about temperament tests then. That other rescue thread is a worry, don't know anything about specific politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The simple fact is that dog overpopulation is a myth and it is only those who believe this myth to be truth that are against further breeding of dogs. Sorry, haven't read the thread so I hope I haven't repeated anything already said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casima Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 My first 3 dogs are from the pound/rescue as 9 month - 1 year olds and all 3 have had a fair ammount of issues and baggage to work through, the first 2 were bought as just pets and took lots of training and socialising just to turn them into ok to live with pets, not what everyone wants to go through with their new dog! and I believe many people wouldn't have had the time or the ability or support to deal with many of the challenges I've worked through with these dogs. My dog 2 actually has a very serious behaviour issue which I susupect was his reason for being dumped in the first place and that wasn't picked up in the 3 months he spent in foster care and if they had known of it I'm sure he would have been PTS instead of rehomed with me, I don't want to post any more about it on a public forum, but he still has this problem which is carefully managed by me. The 2nd dog got me hooked on agility, so when getting my 3rd dog my aim was to get a better dog for agility than dog No.2 was, I did my best to choose a pound/rescue dog that would be competitive as an agility dog, I wanted to prove to the world that there are plenty of good potential agility dogs in rescue as an alternative to going to a breeder. I choose a young very athletic active, very socialble and seemingly confident border collie girl. I was thrilled with her for the first few months, then the problems started to show themselves, she is very sound sensitive and very attached to me so that she stresses if I go out and leave her and worst of all, once our more serious agility training started to happen she showed a very different side of her temperament than I had seen, gone was the confidence, she turned into a very oversensitive stressed out thing and it was extremely difficult to train her without her shutting down, and I'm not talking about serious stressful or correction based training, this is all positive highly rewarded training and shaping that most dogs find to be all fun and games. I'm not sure if its her underlying temperament at fault or if she just didn't learn how to learn and cope with learning stress as a puppy or what but I would dearly love to know whats in her family tree. Dog 3 competes in agility at masters level in ANKC but her perfomance is very hit and miss depending on her confidence and motivation level on the day. So after battling away with dog 3 for a few years I came to the conclusion that if I want to keep enjoying agility I need to train up another dog as a replacement for dog 2 when he retires. This time, I was not even slightly tempted to get a rescue, I researched my favorite breed and the lines I loved most as agility dogs and recently aquired my first well bred pedigree dog. He is just a baby now at alittle over 4 months old, but so far he is a dream to live with and a hoot to train! it is sooo nice being able to mould your puppy into the dog you want from day 1. I can't wait to see how we go in agility once hes older I had thought I might feel guilty for not getting a rescue, but I have not at all so far. There are some lovely rescue dogs out there that can make special pets or even great performance/work dogs but it is a risk that you get the temperament you think you are getting. I am extremly lucky that all 3 of my pound dogs have been very healthy, but that is another unknown when getting a rescue that can make the dog unsuitable for what you want to do with your next dog as well. I am just glad that there are plently of good breeders out there breeding the best dogs they can and giving us the option of having a well bred healthy dog if that is what you choose to own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 You have done a great job with your guys Casima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Start a topic whinging about (a few) rescuers that lump all breeders in together, then take a swipe at rescue as a whole, saying it's too risky for you? Most hypocritical thread ever. Well buying from rescue is a risk. You never meet the parents, the breeder - you don't know the circumstances of the mating, why they were bred, you don't know what happened in their life before you came into the picture, you don't know about issues that may exist in the lines, longevity (I mean who wants to put 2+ years of intense training into a dog whose family have all died before 6?), no health testing, you don't know whether the parents had achieved or were capable of achieving any working titles etc etc. You have to decide why you want a dog - if it's just for a pet, or hey, like a lot of rescuers I know, you want to do a good deed well then rescue can work beautifully. I take my dog everywhere with me, on holidays, to parties you name it and then I also want to compete in a variety of dog sports - tracking, agility, protection, lure coursing etc so for me and if I didn't have a dog that could do all that, who was also loving and loyal, I wouldn't enjoy the experience as much. Hence it took me 3 years to find the right dog. So whilst I donate to several dog rescues, guide dogs and every other animal charity that approaches me on the street, I am personally not interested in rescue dogs. I don't think people should have to feel badly for wanting to take advantage of what is possible when you buy from someone who breeds responsibly with purpose and devotes their life to breeding better dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Their is a risk that pedigree dogs can develop behavioural problems too- no puppy has a fully formed temperament, all they have are tendencies. Assessing these tendencies in a puppy from any source is very important. Good rescue and good breeders do this and help you in a puppy choice- average or bad rescues and breeders do not. I have 2 shelter dogs, 2 farm bred dogs and 1 pedigree dog. While one of the shelter dogs has fear based issues, we knew and took her for that reason. The others all have wonderful temperaments. I would absolutely get another rescue, another pedigree dog and the only thing that stops me from getting another farm bred dog is ethical considerations- not issues with the dogs at all. I HATE the guilt trips used by some rescues or rescue advocates- it makes me hide their facebook updates and switch off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I am extremly lucky that all 3 of my pound dogs have been very healthy, but that is another unknown when getting a rescue that can make the dog unsuitable for what you want to do with your next dog as well. I am just glad that there are plently of good breeders out there breeding the best dogs they can and giving us the option of having a well bred healthy dog if that is what you choose to own. You bought dogs from the pound, not from rescue, there is a big difference. If the point of this topic is to show that good breeders should not be lumped in with the byb and pet shops, it has been lost on you. There is no such thing as 'pound/rescue'. You bought your dog from an organisation or different organisations and there is no reason to assume that all rescue organisations or pounds are the same or have the same level of quality control. Coming onto DOL to whinge about rescue as a whole just because you had a bad experience with your own dog is just as offensive as the person lumping registered breeders in with brb and pet shops on Facebook. Jacqui you are wrong about health testing in rescue dogs, and you are wrong to claim that your dog was carefully bred or well-bred. Your dog is cross-bred and its genetics are quite random. There is far less risk in adopting an adult dog from a good rescue organisation than there is to buy a cross bred pup like you did from a byb. The special qualities you ascribe to your dog can be found in just about any breed of dog, hence their popularity as pets. However the problems you report having with his behaviour are quite unusual in most breeds and very undesirable. Very disappointing to see people jumping about to vent about rescue, when all prospective dog buyers need to be careful, regardless of where they buy the dog from. Edited December 21, 2011 by Greytmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I know a lot of people find their dream dogs in rescue, but dog ownership is such a massive committment and so in my mind it's extremely important if not essential to have the best idea possible of what you're getting into. And that can only be obtained when you buy from a responsible breeder who is breeding for purpose and values and hence discriminating over which dogs they use in the first place. To reiterate my main point though, people who buy particular breeds/mixes from breeders want their dogs for specific reasons, and when you have the right dog, ownership is not a chore or a series of expenses, every day, every moment with my dog is a pleasure and a priviledge. I looked into rescuing a dog... but with kids I couldn't take the risk with all the X whatever's that I couldn't view their parents etc. not that I'm saying they can't be great pets. But being 'Responsible' is knowing that the dog you take on you can handle for its whole life, A breeder can give me that! At this stage of my families life... I choose an ethical Breeder, that is selective with the dogs they mate, because health and temperament etc. I'm saddened when I see facebook ranting... its a waste of time. And people can be so cruel over the internet... It's so sad Well buying from rescue is a risk. You never meet the parents, the breeder - you don't know the circumstances of the mating, why they were bred, you don't know what happened in their life before you came into the picture, you don't know about issues that may exist in the lines, longevity (I mean who wants to put 2+ years of intense training into a dog whose family have all died before 6?), no health testing, you don't know whether the parents had achieved or were capable of achieving any working titles etc etc. I'm all for the right dog for the right person, but I think these posts are over-playing the risks of rescue and underestimating the risks of breeders. Adopting an adult rescue dog means you can see what you're getting moreso than a puppy. Good training and where necessary the intervention of a good behaviourist can resolve many issues. Even the best of pedigree parents can have a pup with problems, and these might not become apparent until later in life. And even if the dog is a perfect specimen, it could have a non-genetic problem, experience or injury which renders it just as unsuitable for the desired purpose no matter how many years you have spent training. Taking any life into your family is a big risk. A breeder (or rescue of course) cannot guarantee that you will never have problems with your pup. I'm with Greytmate on this one. All people can do is test and try to match dogs (from wherever) and homes with the information available at the time. I'd hate for people to read this thread and think that buying from a breeder makes their pup physically and temperamentally bulletproof, whereas adopting from rescue means their dog is a cluster of problems waiting to happen. edit: too slow. what the last 2 posts said Edited December 21, 2011 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now