Kavik Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I have seen a couple of comments and a video on Facebook lately where people supporting rescue are saying that buying a dog from a pet shop OR breeder means one less dog adopted from the pound (or one pound dog dying) - or comments that thank goodness they went to the pound rather than a breeder. I find this view frustrating as it is just so wrong! It is not my fault there are dogs in the pound - I did not put them there! Their owners are the ones at fault, the ones that did not care for them. So they think it is fine to try to make me feel guilty about researching fully the breeders where I intend to get my next dog to ensure I get the one that suits me best? I want to improve my training skills and aim for as high as I can get in competition, so am looking for a particular type of dog. My first attempt at finding a suitable dog in rescue did not go well. I certainly think it would be easier to find a suitable dog by finding someone who breeds for the attributes I am looking for than to wade through the many dogs that for some reason people did not want to find a dog that has a suitable temperament, conformation and good health as well as one that I like to do what I aim to do. Certainly some of the guilt trips like an ad I saw today make me less likely to support rescue in general if that is what they think and certainly less likely to get a dog from a pound. Edited December 21, 2011 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 If people want to tell me where I can or can't get my next dog from they can bite me, guilt only works on me when it is either of my children with their puppy dog eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yep, the guilt trips get my back up too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Those kind of comments turned me off too - so I put a stop to the donating I used to do. I will continue to buy registered dogs from good breeders of the pure breed that suits me the best, and the zealots who resort to attempts at emotional blackmail can take a running jump off a short pier imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It's a shame, but technically what they are saying is true. That's not to say that a puppy that I don't buy from a breeder isn't going to end up the same way if I don't buy it though. I've given up feeling the need to take responsibility for other people's crap behaviour and attitudes. I know a lot of animals are in really bad situations, but just like I can't help every child that needs it I can't help every dog that is in a bad way. My interest is not in rescuing dogs, it is in training dogs, the best I can do with the time I have is to make sure I look after my dogs and encourage others who I meet to do the same. There a zealots in every walk of life and area of interest. They are best ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 There are extremists on both sides of the camp - please don't tarnish all rescue with the same brush as those rescue extremists resorting to emotional blackmail. Responsible and ethical rescue, and breed rescue are still doing wonderful things, without those doing that great work having their work undermined by extremists. Nor should good breeders (that also assist or support rescue of their breed) be painted with the same brush as byb's or less ethical breeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 That message is an over-simplified one. You're right, it lumps good ethical registered breeders and what they produce.....in with BYBs and puppy farmers. The evidence is that the puppies born and bred by ethical registered breeders are less likely to be later dumped or surrendered. So buying puppies/dogs from them is helping prevent numbers of homeless dogs. RSPCA Qld put in their last February email update that people should go those ethical breeders for puppies/dogs and to responsible ethical rescues. I also saw a note on the AWL Qld Facebook page recently, saying much the same thing. CHOICE (Australian Consumers' Association), in a subtle way, suggests a similar approach on their website. Registered breeders, shelters like AWL & RSPCA, & rescues. Links are provided for all. Perhaps be proactive & ask those rescues which are giving out the over-simplified message to qualify what they're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 There was quite an interesting exchange a few weeks ago on the DogsVic site with a particular rescue group that was told it could not bring its adoptable dogs to the BigDay Out for Dogs run by DogsVic (for a number of reasons, apparently). Anyway, in the enshewing chaos and abuse, a letter was posted by the head of the rescue group which effectively accused Dogs Vic members and registered breeders of using dodgey vets, being puppy farmers, not vaccinating puppies or taking appropriate care of litters and animals in our care (etc etc). There was a heap of abuse aimed at registered breeders and DogsVic by the supporters of this group - there was even a post asking if it was true that Dogs Vic was selling unwanted dogs for scientific experiments! So I have to say, while I generally do support the work of rescue groups (noting members of our breed club have been involved in breed rescues and its part of the Club's mission) I was pretty much revolted by the abuse laid on by this group, there was certainly a feeling of PETA to it all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I just say what a heap of rubbish on those threads on FB and you'll be surprised how many other people then come out of the wood work to back you up. If "friends" keep posting those threads and links I delete the "friends". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You should not feel guilty for your choices... We all make our own choices and I really don't think pound adopters say these things to make others feel guilty - they are just pointing out the obvious. There are to many people dumping dogs in pounds and so many don't make it out.. There is nothing wrong with their opinion or yours... My old boy was a pure stafford but after he passed away, I decided that I would like to adopt from the pound and help out rescue - that is my choice... I would love to have another pure stafford one day and probably will but for now, the pound pups were the way to go for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roguedog Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I run a rescue organisation yet I choose to own purebred dogs, that is my choice, I buy from ethical breeders and pay a fortune for dogs that have had health testing... Im very glad that some people choose to purchase rescue dogs but would NEVER insult or abuse anyone for choosing to purchase a purebred from a registered breeder, what I have issue with is byb and petstore puppies... please dont tar all rescue people with the same brush! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yeah, I had a huge Facebook argument on the goodfordogs Facebook page with two people (coincidentally, one was 'Melanie Norman' who is being discussed at length in the rescue forum as she is a member of th contentious 'pound rounds' group). These people wanted a complete ban on breeding ANY dogs, we're saying that ANY breeder is unethical simply for breeding alone while there are other dogs needing homes, and they refused to acknowledge that there are breeders out there doing the right thing and everything in their power to ensure their dogs don't end up in the pound. I was told what I was saying was a huge contradiction because I am involved in rescue, and how could anyone who rescues support breeding of dogs. It was assumed that I WAS a breeder simply because I defended ethical ones, even though I continually stated I have never bred a litter and am heavily involved in rescue, and that I had three rescue animal in my home. I continually asked THEM if they wanted to see the end of domestic dogs and drags and they didn't believe people should have pets. None answered the question so I assumed that was a yes. It's pointless arguing with them. I gave up in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 There are extremists on both sides of the camp - please don't tarnish all rescue with the same brush as those rescue extremists resorting to emotional blackmail. Responsible and ethical rescue, and breed rescue are still doing wonderful things, without those doing that great work having their work undermined by extremists. Nor should good breeders (that also assist or support rescue of their breed) be painted with the same brush as byb's or less ethical breeders. I think it IS very important to remember that not everyone involved in rescue believes it. Sadly though there are some in rescue who think that you're terrible because you breed and some in the show/breeding world who think its terrible if you rescue. Can't please everyone so in the end you just have to please yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesluvscavs Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 when I post such things on my fb, and I do quite often, I always say either adopt a dog from a rescue org/shelter and or buy from a registered and ethical breeder, just don't from pet shops and BYB's.. I don't think my posts are offending anyone, well apart from those that have bought from pet shops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I was just goint o say that Trisven - breeders shouldn't lump all rescues together either. My next dog will be a pedigree. I don't care what keyboard warriors think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I do not feel guilty at all about buying the best dog for me which is a pedigree dog from an ethical breeder. If more people did that and therefore researched and found the right dog for them - regardless of where it is from, less dogs would end up in pounds to begin with. I do not feel guilty and although everyone is entitled to their opinion I don't have to agree with it or them with mine. I also support rescue, ususally locally as they have little to no resourses and do a great job with very limited help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 These people wanted a complete ban on breeding ANY dogs, we're saying that ANY breeder is unethical simply for breeding alone while there are other dogs needing homes, and they refused to acknowledge that there are breeders out there doing the right thing and everything in their power to ensure their dogs don't end up in the pound. Load of bullshit if you ask me. There are many reasons why someone may NEED a dog bred with certain traits - pedigree or not. Are we going to find all our guide dogs, military dogs, police dogs and service dogs in the pound now? I doubt it. What happens when all the "good" dogs run out? Do we wait for them to be dumped and recycled again? Like Agility dogs said - "My interest is not in rescuing dogs, it is in training dogs, the best I can do with the time I have is to make sure I look after my dogs and encourage others who I meet to do the same." People who think that all breeders should be banned need to look a little deeper. It's not that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I agree. The idea of "don't breed or buy when shelter pets die" is a bit much. For every pet killed in a pound, there is: *A breeder who didn't do enough scrutiny of the new home. *An owner who didn't do enough for their animal. *A pound who didn't have enough resources to rehome the animal. No way am I, as a breeder, responsible for other breeders, those who surrender animals, or pound administration. I have no part to play in shelter pets dying. I wrote about this more in a blog post: http://leemakennels.com/blog/rescue/dont-breed-or-buy-while-shelter-dogs-die/ Edited December 21, 2011 by Leema Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 These people wanted a complete ban on breeding ANY dogs, we're saying that ANY breeder is unethical simply for breeding alone while there are other dogs needing homes, and they refused to acknowledge that there are breeders out there doing the right thing and everything in their power to ensure their dogs don't end up in the pound. Load of bullshit if you ask me. There are many reasons why someone may NEED a dog bred with certain traits - pedigree or not. Are we going to find all our guide dogs, military dogs, police dogs and service dogs in the pound now? I doubt it. What happens when all the "good" dogs run out? Do we wait for them to be dumped and recycled again? Like Agility dogs said - "My interest is not in rescuing dogs, it is in training dogs, the best I can do with the time I have is to make sure I look after my dogs and encourage others who I meet to do the same." People who think that all breeders should be banned need to look a little deeper. It's not that simple. Exactly! While there are certainly some nice dogs in rescue, there is no way there are enough good dogs with the traits desireable for a working or sports dog to fill those roles. There is a lot to do and learn if your aim is competition and I would like to give myself the best chance I can to do the best that I can which means starting with a suitable dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The thing that annoys me is that it's like they assume that had a person not bought from a breeder, they would have rescued a dog. Well in my case this wouldn't have happened. I wanted a dog for specific reasons, I looked for 3 years. If I hadn't found one, I still wouldn't have a dog. For my sister it's the same. We matched her the papillon breed, she now has 2, and it's made dog ownership a pleasure for her. They are exactly what she needs in a dog, she would not have coped with a lot of dogs and yet now she has she has 2 dogs that she thinks are perfect. I know I differ from the majority here because I'm happy with ethical, responsible breeding rather than being fixated on the registered or pure breed part (for working dogs etc), but I spend a lot of time trying to convince people not to buy from pet shops and byb's that have just thrown 2 random dogs together because they a - wanted to make some money, b - thought their dog was pretty/nice etc or c - thought their dog wanted to have babies (and recently have had a lot of success :D which is a nice change). I know a lot of people find their dream dogs in rescue, but dog ownership is such a massive committment and so in my mind it's extremely important if not essential to have the best idea possible of what you're getting into. And that can only be obtained when you buy from a responsible breeder who is breeding for purpose and values and hence discriminating over which dogs they use in the first place. To reiterate my main point though, people who buy particular breeds/mixes from breeders want their dogs for specific reasons, and when you have the right dog, ownership is not a chore or a series of expenses, every day, every moment with my dog is a pleasure and a priviledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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