Email From Tom Couchman

[Tralee]

Hi Fellow Breeders

Had an unexpected and quizzical email from the President of DOGSNSW.

Dear DOGS NSW Registered Breeder

I have attached the "Animal Welfare Code of Practice – Breeding Dogs and Cats" issued by the State of New South Wales through the Department of Industry and Investment in August 2009.

This Code contains both standards and guidelines for the care of dogs or cats for breeding.

Blah, blah, blah, .....

DOGS NSW, through past President Frank Pieterse, contributed to the development of this code and compliance with the standards contained in it now form part of the undertaking of Members through our Code of Ethics.

In future this document will be provided to all new applicants for a Breeder's Prefix but I believe it is just as important that all current breeders familiarise themselves with the standards set out in this Code to assist them in understanding the requirements for the care and management of our much loved dogs.

I don't want to sound like a but I downloaded and read the document over a month ago.

I even made reference to it in a post here recently.

Thanks to Frank Pieterse and Tom Couchman but I was already doing a lot of the things in both the standards and the guidelines.

For example, our place out a Nimbin was double fenced and double gated.

I am not sure whether to feel rankled or flattered.

Px

edited for clarity

Edited December 21, 2011 by Tralee

[Tralee]

As I did edit the previous post to say,

As far as I am aware, we not only meet all the standards required, but cover the guidelines too.

In fact I would argue that we go above and beyond the code in many areas.

I could always tender our veterinary history as evidence.

All is in order here, I wonder how things are in DOGSNSW.

I have not forgotten our expensive and time consuming visit to Sydney for a totally unwarranted and completely unnecessary temperament test because the initial test at a regional show was bungled. Maybe they could invest in some portable photocopiers so they can comply with their own statutes.

Px

Edited December 25, 2011 by Tralee

[Astese]

Yes most breeders of purebred dogs are abiding by this so called new code. But how will it effect those people who are breeding designer breed and are members of Dogs NSW. How will they police these breeders who are not abiding by the Code.

[espinay2]

I have had a copy of this for quite a while so it wasn't much of a surprise. Though IMO I do not think there will be many breeders who will actually be fully compliant with this. It pays to read it in detail. Remember firstly that it applies to anyone who has a litter and will sell one or more of the pups.I have pulled out a few of the things from it that breeders will need to comply with:

4.2.1 Outlines the training required by 'staff employed to care for animals'. Who do you get to care for your dogs when you go away? If you give them money for the help, do you ensure that they have 'formal qualifications and experience in animal management' before you get them to do it?

5.1 Does your record keeping comply with all these requirements?

5.1.4 Do you have a DOCUMENTED program for the control of insects, extoparasites and invertebrate pests?

5.1.5 Do you have DOCUMENTED emergency evacuation procedures?

Note the definitions:

Dog housing includes

a kennel, cage, module, colony pen or other enclosure used to contain dogs

within a facility; or garages, carports, sheds, commercially sold dog kennels of

any material, and any room forming part of a house, flat, apartment or town

house used for human habitation

Facility means any place, premises or thing used for the

accommodation or shelter of animals for the purpose of breeding or rearing dogs

or cats, or where puppies or kittens are housed as a result of breeding; and

includes a vehicle used for the transportation of

animals.

Then note that 6.1.1.5 states that 'where a facility houses both dogs and cats, cat housing must be a sufficient distance or otherwise isolated from dog housing to minimise the stress created by the sound, sight or smell of dogs'. Does this mean that people who keep dogs and cats together in the same house are automatically non-compliant??

6.1.1.9 what if the dogs are livestock guardians that sleep in the paddock with the flock?

6.6.1.11 and 12 Ok, so most of the time we can count the vet clinic as an 'isolation facility' – note that a crate or separate run beside other runs would not fulfil these requirements ('biosecurity' etc). If you bring an injured animal home from the vets for care, it seems you may need a letter saying your facilities are adequate?

6.3.1.5 Do you have fire fighting equipment?

7.2.2.6 Do you feed all your weaned pups from separate bowls?

7.3.1.2 Do you disinfect every week?

7.3.1.3 do you change your dogs bedding EVERY DAY (i.e. a new bed or blanket every day)

7.3.3.2 do you get specialist advice before doing any pestcontrol?

7.4.1.4 do you disinfect your dog trailer, van or car each time after taking any of your dogs anywhere?

7.4.2.3 does your dog trailer have air conditioning?

8.1.1.3 have you ever let a bitch go more than two hours of labour without producing a pup before taking her to the vet?

8.2.1.6 Vaccinations are mandated, including for kennel cough – whicheven goes against the current AVA policy?

8.2.1.10 and 11 – heartworm and parasite control - you MUST do these things – whether you need to or not?

8.2.2.2 To comply with this your friends (or owners of your puppies) must never bring their dog over to play with yours. Do you have the facilities to isolate for 48 hours a new dog ordog that comes to stay?

9.1.1.7 something that MUST to be given in writing to all puppy purchasers

9.1.2.1 have you checked your puppy packs to make sure thisinformation is included and you can tick all these off the list?

9.1.2.3 Do your litter advertisements comply with this requirement? Including the ones here on DOL?

10.1.1.13 Do you always keep your bitches with the pups until 7 weeks of age?

10.1.1.14 Do you always start your pups on solid food at 3 weeks? (note as this is a 'must', if they don't need solid food until 4 weeks, and you don't start till then, you are non-compliant!!)

So read it carefully folks and think about whether you can (or want to) comply with it all or not. Frankly, it is the big commercial kennels that are more likely to find it easier to comply with a lot of these than your average purebred dog breeder who keeps a few dogs in their home and yard. Some will be easier for the average breeder to comply with and some things a breeder may do more than what is required. There are things in there though which some breeders may also be philosophically opposed to, and IMO that opposition in some cases would not make them any less responsible (and in my eyes may in some cases make them MORE responsible). Some things may also be expensive for the average small breeder to comply with while not adding significant value to their animal management practices.

Will be interesting to see how things go in relation to enforcing compliance. Whether we are going to see any crackdown or targetting of breeders. A serious business when you note that if you dont comply with ALL of the standards (things in the shaded areas which you MUST do), you may be facing prosecution - whether you think they are things that should or can be done in your situation or not. Start weaning those pups at 3 weeks everyone or you may be in trouble!!!

FWIW

Edited December 26, 2011 by espinay2

[Alyosha]

I got the email Tralee - I think it was a fairly generic one. Perhaps Dogs NSW are just ticking a box that they have made their members aware of the document?

I do think it is ridiculously worded considering how many breeders have few dogs, at home as pets, and an occasional litter. :rolleyes:

Edited December 26, 2011 by Alyosha

[Tralee]

oops

Edited December 26, 2011 by Tralee

[Tralee]

I have had a copy of this for quite a while so it wasn't much of a surprise. Though IMO I do not think there will be many breeders who will actually be fully compliant with this. It pays to read it in detail. Remember firstly that it applies to anyone who has a litter and will sell one or more of the pups.I have pulled out a few of the things from it that breeders will need to comply with:

Hi espinay.

And thank you for your detailed response.

I think, Why? is a reasonable question and I find a hint to the answer in the Preface.

Animal welfare can be thought of as the way an animal’s health, safety and well-being are affected by its physical and social environment. Health and behaviour indicators provide information about how an animal is responding to a situation, thus enabling us to make informed decisions relating to the animal’s welfare.

The way I read this paragraph is as a baseline in which to evaluate breeding establishments.

Small ventures should easily meet the observation of 'animal’s health, safety and well-being' so it smacks of a preparation for overseeing larger enterprises.

The guilding or the silver lining in it I think is the hidden targetting of byb.

That can only be a good thing.

For occassional breeders, there are some eye opening suggestions and those I welcome and embrace.

It would be enough I think to leave it to smaller breeding programs to self evaluate and make accomodations as they see fit.

Of course, blatant breeches should not be condoned and as I said I think the documant prepares the way for 'better' animal care.

Px

[Tralee]

I do think it is ridiculously worded considering how many breeders have few dogs, at home as pets, and an occasional litter. :rolleyes:

Hi Alyosha.

Exactly.

It also stinks of an attempt to be seen to be doing something.

I just hope that after this, in terms of large and small byb, their record can be better than most other authorities.

We have a huge multi-facility kennel here that ... umpf don't start me talkin'.

Px

[Jumabaar]

Oh nooooooes I can't have the light on anymore after 8:30pm!! That will make studying next year rather difficult. That or I need to kick the sleeping dog off the bed next to me and crate them in a room with the light off

6.2.1.3 The duration and intensity of artificial lighting,

where used, must be as close as possible to natural conditions, sufficient to allow thorough inspection and observation of animals, and which mimic the prevailing natural light cycles. Animals must be protected from excessive light which is generated from an external source.

[dancinbcs]

Has this just been sent out to breeders as they register a litter? This is the first I have heard about it from anyone.

[Jumabaar]

Has this just been sent out to breeders as they register a litter? This is the first I have heard about it from anyone.

Nope my last litter was in Feb and I received this a few weeks ago. Its a bit of a joke for small time breeders but fair enough for anyone who runs a business.

[dancinbcs]

Has this just been sent out to breeders as they register a litter? This is the first I have heard about it from anyone.

Nope my last litter was in Feb and I received this a few weeks ago. Its a bit of a joke for small time breeders but fair enough for anyone who runs a business.

Wonder why it was only sent to some breeders and not others then?

[Tralee]

Hi dancinbcs.

In answer to your query, No.

I quote from Tom's email:

DOGS NSW, through past President Frank Pieterse, contributed to the development of this code and compliance with the standards contained in it now form part of the undertaking of Members through our Code of Ethics.

In future this document will be provided to all new applicants for a Breeder's Prefix but I believe it is just as important that all current breeders familiarise themselves with the standards set out in this Code to assist them in understanding the requirements for the care and management of our much loved dogs.

Regards

Px

[Tralee]

Wonder why it was only sent to some breeders and not others then?

That. Is a very interesting question.

[Steve]

The new regs for approvals of an approved organisation for exemptions for councils in NSW only came in a few months ago. Up until then it wasn't necessary for Dogs NSW to inform their members that they needed to comply with this code, the POCTA and the companion animals act. The MDBA had to include this information in our welcome packages.The reason Dogs NSW members get the exemptions is because it is assumed that they police these three things and therefore it eliminates the problem for council so its necessary for any org which is approved for their members to have these exemptions to ensure they inform them of what they need to comply with and keep them up dated on any changes etc.

Fact is these codes are harder than the code of conduct for Dogs NSW so members within the codes for Dogs NSW may have still been outside of these codes and not aware of their obligations - this evens it out. You cant very well ask a new organisation which is seeking approval to comply with this if to date the one that's been there hasn't been doing that. Once you have been told you cant plead ignorance either.

Its unfortunate that all breeders are assumed to be the same and all puppies of all breeds should be managed the same and its written up as if we all have a huge kennel complex and a couple of hundred dogs. You can spend your life learning about your dogs, your breeding and the sciences of dog breeding and none of it matters because you simply have to do as you are directed in case someone who does own 200 dogs is an idiot. It sure has taken a hell of a lot of the fun and enjoyment out of it.

[Alyosha]

I've had my prefix for some years and got it. Maybe all members don't have email contact with Dogs NSW and may get a mailed copy in future? Maybe they are sending it out in batches? Who knows. I did register a litter in the second half of this year, maybe they are going backwards through registrations and getting it sent out?

[espinay2]

For occassional breeders, there are some eye opening suggestions and those I

welcome and embrace.

It would be enough I think to leave it to smaller

breeding programs to self evaluate and make accomodations as they see fit.

Of course, blatant breeches should not be condoned and as I said I think

the documant prepares the way for 'better' animal care.

Certainly there are some (lots of) things in it that I beleive all should be complying with. It will be up to individual breeders how much of the document they will comply with themselves. Be aware though that if a breeder in Vic can be put through hell and prosecuted for exhibiting debarked dogs, it is not so much of a stretch if someome decides to 'dob in' someone in NSW for not vaccinating for kennel cough or some other form of non compliance which - to most of us - seems reasonable, but under this 'law' is considered a punishable offence.

As Steve said - it takes a hell of a lot of the fun and enjoyment out of it.

[Jumabaar]

Just checking- I don't vaccinate for kennel cough (and titre test the rest).

1- so long as I get a vet to say that they recommend this it should be fine

2- what about my 'non' breeding dogs. the ones who are desexed- do they need to live under the same 'conditions' as my breeding animals. What about breeding prospects, that may end up desexed without having had or sired a litter??

My dogs are pets, in 6.5 years I have had two litters, and under these rules I can't own a cat because I don't have a cattery and would want it to be part of the family in with the dogs (assuming dogs and cat were happy with this). I KNOW I don't comply with all these things- but my vets can all tell you that my animals welfare come first (well and truly before my bank balance and myself!).

But at the same time- for all the numptys out there I am glad. I mean I was able to quote the code in here. And I will be tempted to print it out for all the future numptys I meet.

If they were policed by breeders who understood what happens and vets who have worked with breeders then this code could work. But I doubt it will be- so I will be going through it with a fine tooth comb to make sure I can tick all the boxes...

[Tralee]

Certainly there are some (lots of) things in it that I beleive all should be complying with. It will be up to individual breeders how much of the document they will comply with themselves.

As Steve said - it takes a hell of a lot of the fun and enjoyment out of it.

Yep.

I don't want to prattle on because I have more to add.

But, if we approach the document from a minimal compliance viewpoint, such as mum, dad and the kids who have two dogs which they show and who breed one litter, then I think it could be argued that, at present, while the standards are mandatory some of them would be unnecesessary and nigh impossibile. Those standards then become ridiculous.

And yet, if one litter can be bred from a bitch then another five could follow. So now we venture into moral and ethical territory.

Let's face it: You cannot legislate for saintliness. But you can legislate against its antithesis.

More to follow.

Px

Edited December 26, 2011 by Tralee

[Tralee]

My dogs are pets, in 6.5 years I have had two litters, and under these rules I can't own a cat because I don't have a cattery and would want it to be part of the family in with the dogs (assuming dogs and cat were happy with this).

Hi Jumabaar.

And there in lies the dilemma.

I am certain there is no differentiation between a single bitch that lives at home with the family and who sleeps on the 'sofa' and, for want of an example in context, a large greyhound breeding complex.

I will be looking at the document many more times, but I suspect the definition of terms is lacking the essential nuance companion animal owners will be looking for, and who can be expected to start screaming about its ommission.

Px