Dog Killed With Capsicum Spray- Melbourne

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Owners definitely do let their dogs escape sometimes. I rehomed one of my fosters to a lovely couple at the weekend. They were still getting over the death of their neighbour's little 4 yr old Pomeranian, killed on the road a few days before.

The dear little dog was expected to endure life in a treeless garden, no flea treatment (he was infested), no walks or anything but being used for the odd mating with a friend's dog.

No wonder he sought to escape and run across a busy road to the dog park. Having taken him back numerous times and spoken nicely to the owner, the lady started taking him to the council - thinking that they would ensure the dog was desexed or the owner would do it due to large fines being incurred but no.

They'd had him in their garden while the owner was at work on a few occasions and he didn't try and escape at all, they would have been happy to adopt him but no, owner didn't want to relinquish. What an a---hole.

No doubt he'll get another dog but this poor little dog should not have paid with his life. So many dogs live their lives in misery, what to do?

[Little Gifts]

Perhaps I'm reading the story wrong or missing something but it sounded to me like the dog died at the pound. You would hope/assume that the rangers or dog catchers have some training in how to catch animals in a variety of situations and that the training includes subduing aggressive animals and recognising animals who are reacting under stress. If an animal was showing signs of fear and stress I guess the best thing to do after catching the animal would be to let it settle so it could be handled safely. With an aggressive animal I assume the best option would be to get it somewhere secure as quickly as possible. In both instances wouldn't the back of the van a dog got picked up in be the best place for it to calm down and not attack anything? Even if it was aggressive wouldn't you let it settle and strategise on the best way of moving it to a pound pen? So how the hell does a dog end up covered in pepper spray and dead in the actual pound? I wouldn't be surprised if it was sprayed to get it into the van and that it was dead before it got back to the pound because if it was showing signs of stress to the point of death the next stop for the van should have been a vet, not the pound. And it is not that common a breed so if someone had already reported it missing, even if they hadn't checked for a chip due to agression I don't think a quick match would've been that hard. AND if the police were involved and the dog was a real public threat then I suspect the council would be wanting to find the owner pretty quickly so they could be charged.

So if there is nothing to hide why don't they simply tell the owner what happened?

Sorry but there is something fishy here with the council whether the dog was loose or aggressive. If it was my dog, my property, I would be livid.

[sandgrubber]

Sad to see a big dog die young, and away from home.

We don't know much here.

Did the dog die of capsicum spray, or something else? Or did the capsicum bring on something latent, like a bad heart?

Did it escape due to seriously inadequate fencing or carelessness . . . or some fluke accident that was hard to prevent?

Was it aggressively menacing a woman and child in their back yard? Or perhaps being playful, and slobbering abundantly, in a manner that would be frightening to the average person?

Was the dog well socialised and given adequate care? How did it behave around strangers?

Given that some members of the press are as irresponsible as some dog owners, I can understand why the council is being tight with information.

Given the superficial similarity to the Ayen Chol situation, I can see why animal control called in the police.

It does sound like the owner is pretty aggressive.

[Atanquin]

I dunno why they used capsicum spray why not get a proper tranquilizer that is made for animal control.

Just found this:

Inhaling the fumes can make people with respiratory issues very ill, perhaps even kill them.

Police grade pepper spray is 3 times stronger than the pepper spray available to civilians.

Pepper spray goes into your eyes, nose and mouth – basically choking off your breathing, blinding you and causing a great deal of pain.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Atanquin

[corrie]

I feel very sorry for this lady. For all we know this may have been the first time the dog escaped the yard and it may have been totally unforeseen - unfortunately the ultimate price was paid.

It is tragic and I really do feel for the owner and the dog but it would have also been tragic if the dog was hit and killed by a car or if the dog had attacked a human. There are unforseen circumstances and dogs escape but sadly when a dog escapes the odds are greatly increased in favour of something bad happening.

Megan, to save quoting I'll just say I agree with all your posts.

[Blonde_Phoenix]

I dunno why they used capsicum spray why not get a proper tranquilizer that is made for animal control.

I'm no expert but using tranquillisers is not 100% safe and would take a certain degree of training to administer which I could imagine not all animal control officers would posses.

In such a litigious society the councils apprehension to release details is standard and quite justified.

While there is not enough information currently available to make a judgment whether the officers and shelter involved have acted negligently, one thing is undeniable, the dog was not safely contained on it's owners property and that is the owners fault (accidental or deliberate). It dose not matter whether it's the 1st or 101st time a particular dog has escaped, the dog was out where it posed a potential risk to the public and itself and action had to be taken.

It's just a really sad situation for everyone involved.

[dancinbcs]

Urban dog owners need to realise that their dogs are just at much at risk of being killed if they get out, as rural dogs are. In a rural area, any dog found on another property is likely to be shot on sight. Farmers do not take risks with stray dogs around their livestock and country people know that.

If an urban dog gets out it is most likely to hit by a car but lots of other scenarios are also possible. Rangers are paid to collect stray dogs and prevent them causing harm, not put themselves in danger. If a powerful dog is acting agressively, off the owners property, they do whatever they need to, to ensure the dog does not harm anyone. There are so many aggressive dogs roaming lose these days that drastic action needs to be taken to get through to people that they need to keep their dogs contained or face the consequences.

[Nekhbet]

dogues already have soft palate and sinus problems most of the time, a good dose of capsicum spray makes the mucus membranes swell and the animal can suffocate. Horrible way to die.

[RL1]

It is the owners' reesponsibility to keep the dog securely.

In a perfect world, yes, no dog would ever escape out of its yard.

[Alyosha]

Rangers have a duty to many animals and people, and cannot deote their day to one impounded dog. They cannot spend unlimited time allowing that dog time to "settle" in their vehicle, while other work waits.

Tranquilisers take time and are not recommended for dangerous animals. Which is why precious zoo animals that escape amongst the public are more likely to be shot than tranqued.

Council are of course going to limit iformation release when threatened wth legal ation, wouldn't any of us?

Lets consider the other side. If any of us found a large unknown dog in our own property, and feared for our own, our children or our pet's safety, would we expect assistance? Yes. If there were consequences to that dog being removed or contained, sad yes. Too bad, yes.

None of us here would criticise a farmer for shooting dead a wandering dog that was near stock, even if not directly attacking. Yet we criticise when a dog is forcefully removed from a similar situation with people? Surely people deserve at least the same regard as sheep...

One sentence sums it up: so sad, too bad.

edit, sp.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Alyosha

[Keira&Phoenix]

Sad to see a big dog die young, and away from home.

We don't know much here.

Did the dog die of capsicum spray, or something else? Or did the capsicum bring on something latent, like a bad heart?

Did it escape due to seriously inadequate fencing or carelessness . . . or some fluke accident that was hard to prevent?

Was it aggressively menacing a woman and child in their back yard? Or perhaps being playful, and slobbering abundantly, in a manner that would be frightening to the average person?

Was the dog well socialised and given adequate care? How did it behave around strangers?

Given that some members of the press are as irresponsible as some dog owners, I can understand why the council is being tight with information.

Given the superficial similarity to the Ayen Chol situation, I can see why animal control called in the police.

It does sound like the owner is pretty aggressive.

The Ayen Chol case would have had no effect on this particular case, seeing as it happened in June, well before the Ayen incident.

[Trisven13]

Rangers have a duty to many animals and people, and cannot deote their day to one impounded dog. They cannot spend unlimited time allowing that dog time to "settle" in their vehicle, while other work waits.

Tranquilisers take time and are not recommended for dangerous animals. Which is why precious zoo animals that escape amongst the public are more likely to be shot than tranqued.

Council are of course going to limit iformation release when threatened wth legal ation, wouldn't any of us?

Lets consider the other side. If any of us found a large unknown dog in our own property, and feared for our own, our children or our pet's safety, would we expect assistance? Yes. If there were consequences to that dog being removed or contained, sad yes. Too bad, yes.

None of us here would criticise a farmer for shooting dead a wandering dog that was near stock, even if not directly attacking. Yet we criticise when a dog is forcefully removed from a similar situation with people? Surely people deserve at least the same regard as sheep...

One sentence sums it up: so sad, too bad.

edit, sp.

YEp I agree.

We had a dog come into our yard from the neighbours - he was a large mixed breed dog who had attacked/menaced a number of people before including a disabled teenager at my back fence (at one point I was working out how I was going to pull him up over the fence to get him away from the dog that looked like it would charge every time the poor kid moved). Steve heard a noise in the front (fully fenced) yard - opened the front door and got charged by this large growling dog. Ranger turned up and the dog was easily restrained at that point and taken away - he was actually returned to the owner. He was finally put to sleep by the council when he was roaming the streets 12 months later attached to a 10 metre long heavy chain bailing up people AGAIN. That dog should have been dealt with far better early on than what he was.

[mita]

There appears to be no independent witnesses to what actually happened when Hector was captured and capsicum spray apparently used. It does say he got into somebody's yard.....& the mother and children hid themselves inside their house (understandable when they knew no history of that dog).

To many members of the public, a dog the size of a Dogue would make them them believe it could be dangerous.

Some time back I found a huge, well-kept Rottie on the loose outside our local library. One of the many reasons that a few of us made the effort to get him off the roads....& check his ID....was that the sheer sight of him could send many people into hysteria.

No surprise, that when we got him....by my crouching down & calling, 'Come here, darling!'....he proved to be a big, affectionate sweetheart. But we had no illusions that numbers of people might have called for police with a gun! He was lucky he got spotted by some dog savvy people. ID on his collar led to his owner.

Sadly, the details about Hector are still not clear.....as the final bit in the OP article says that the rangers declined to talk to the RSPCA inspector.

But I have a niggling feeling that his size and 'looks' may have contributed to how his 'finders/catchers' interacted with him.....& he with them.

By contrast, when our 2 small golden tibbie girls got let out by a visiting tradesmen, they took themselves into a yard and house where a day care mother was looking after a bunch of littlies. Thanks to their size....& how all inter-acted with each other, they were welcomed like visiting angels. And were duly carried home (by the biggest of the children) in a little procession (thanks to collar ID). What if Hector the Dogue had turned up in that yard?

I'd say that big dogs carry a special vulnerability with them when they get loose. People are more worried by them....given they don't know their history. And might not be dog-savvy enough to test them on the spot.

Edited December 20, 2011 by mita

[Blonde_Phoenix]

I'd say that big dogs carry a special vulnerability with them when they get loose. People are more worried by them....given they don't know their history. And might not be dog-savvy enough to test them on the spot.

I'd agree completely with that and as a result owners who choose to own large and/or 'scary' breeds do have to take extra precautions to ensure their dogs do not escape no matter how friendly they maybe.

I own a large guarding breed and yes he fits that ‘prefect teddybear’ description to a T, but there is no way I would trust him in an unfamiliar situation on his own (yes even though he is well socialised and has never shown any signs of aggression towards humans or other dogs). We have 8 foot fences with padlocked gates and our fence line is back from the street. If we have tradespeople come to work downstairs and we can’t be home he stays inside or vice versa. It is my responsibility to ensure his safety and to ensure he never threatens the safety of anyone else.

[espinay2]

Yes, ultimately the owner is responsible as their dog has somehow escaped. But it does seem they were doing their darndest to find it (calling the pound etc) and I agree the main issue here is the secrecy. I am guessing that if there was clear evidence the dog was acting aggressively and clearly understood the cause of death, the owner would at least understand. Without it, they can only go on what they know of their dog. Facts are, their dog escaped, the owner reported its escape to the pound, the dog had had capsicum spray used on it, the dog turned up dead in the pound the next day, no real explanation or information on the dogs death has been provided to the owner. Frankly I would be kicking up a stink too.

I do understand Govt red tape, but if the dog really was acting as they say, then why not allow the information (autopsy, cctv footage, reports from rangers etc) to be released. By making things more difficult they are only making it appear they are at fault. They may not be, or they may be - at the moment there is no real way to know but the longer it goes on, the more it looks like a cover up IMO. Hopefully the owners get some answers soon. They must be devistated.

[Dame Aussie]

Yes, ultimately the owner is responsible as their dog has somehow escaped. But it does seem they were doing their darndest to find it (calling the pound etc) and I agree the main issue here is the secrecy. I am guessing that if there was clear evidence the dog was acting aggressively and clearly understood the cause of death, the owner would at least understand. Without it, they can only go on what they know of their dog. Facts are, their dog escaped, the owner reported its escape to the pound, the dog had had capsicum spray used on it, the dog turned up dead in the pound the next day, no real explanation or information on the dogs death has been provided to the owner. Frankly I would be kicking up a stink too.

I do understand Govt red tape, but if the dog really was acting as they say, then why not allow the information (autopsy, cctv footage, reports from rangers etc) to be released. By making things more difficult they are only making it appear they are at fault. They may not be, or they may be - at the moment there is no real way to know but the longer it goes on, the more it looks like a cover up IMO. Hopefully the owners get some answers soon. They must be devistated.

I agree. I have had experience with quite a few different council rangers and every single one I dealt with didn't have a clue about dogs. I'm suspicious.

[GeckoTree]

I could have sworn I read this last year, dog escaped after a storm , owner who is into shows was frantic, dog murdered by council.

[Keira&Phoenix]

I could have sworn I read this last year, dog escaped after a storm , owner who is into shows was frantic, dog murdered by council.

It was June last year so June 2010, so you may have heard about it back then....

[mita]

I do understand Govt red tape, but if the dog really was acting as they say, then why not allow the information (autopsy, cctv footage, reports from rangers etc) to be released. By making things more difficult they are only making it appear they are at fault. They may not be, or they may be - at the moment there is no real way to know but the longer it goes on, the more it looks like a cover up IMO. Hopefully the owners get some answers soon. They must be devistated.

Yes, it was disappointing that the rangers wouldn't even discuss it with the RSPCA Inspector.

It's impossible to arrive at any conclusions based on the few facts that seem to be clear.

Terribly sad case and I can understand the owner's grief and wish for further information.

BP, I agree with you about the vulnerability of the big dogs for being viewed differently, & so treated differently, when on the loose.

But accidents happen in the best of circumstances (look how my 2 precious tibbie girls were let out!).

My hope, tho', would be that any big dog (who's really a good dog in normal circumstances) would be lucky, and meet people who are dog savvy enough not to leap to conclusions based only on their size. And I include rangers in that.

Just a general comment (& not about this particular case), I wonder what kind of training in dog behaviours and management rangers get.

[megan_]

If you are being threatened with legal action the very first thing any lawyer will tell you is to keep your mouth shut, regardless of evidence.