Dog Behaviour Question.

[cannibalgoldfish]

I was wondering about something that happened the other day between my two dogs. I know there are some people on Dol who are very knowledgeable about dog behaviour. The few of you that read my posts in general know the basics but I will summarize parts of it.

I have two male Shiba inu. Loki is a submissive little mummies boy who is my "sensitive" child. He is 9 years old, desexed as a puppy and in the last couple of years started to give me major grey hairs when he started to escape the inescapable yard...He was getting upset about loud noises, fireworks, storms ect. After a lot of angst, tears and fence building we finally found out the major part of his problem was he is developing cataracts. So we are managing his issues, which have spread to food. He resource guards his food now and gets upset if the other dog is near at dinner time, if dinner time is in the evening. We found out feeding him during the day was fine but if it was getting dark he would freak out due to the light levels.

moving on.... Now we have a happy place, and a routine for Loki so he doesn't get too stressed. Basically I work on supervised or separate feedings during the day or feeding him in the kitchen at night which is well lit. We are managing his other issues about thunder and fireworks.. ect.

Dog two is Wylie. He is another male shiba, 7 years old and entire. Part of the problem with feeding them was Wylie scoffs his food down in seconds and hangs around for Loki to leave his. Since Loki got tetchy about his food we feed them separately.

Wylie didn't drive Loki off his food or growl or bark, he just "hovers" in his face until he moved on or got growled at.

Recently I posted a thread about boarding my two and how Loki the "everything that can go wrong will" dog was fine and Wylie was upset and licked his paws raw in stress while we were gone. I dont know if the following issue is related to that but I'll mention it anyway.

The other day I gave them a bone each. It was during the day and I was outside to supervise in case Loki got defensive over his bone. Wylie took his bone and went off to his bed, dropped his bone and came back as I was giving Loki his bone. Wylie actually charged Loki, barking and dived for Loki's bone. It was a totally new behaviour from him. Normally he hovers, not making eye contact with Loki and Loki growls and snarls (which is why I feed them apart) This was different! After Wylie took away his own bone he fixed his eyes on Loki and charged him. He eyeballed him and charged up barking and snarling, dived in low towards the bone and growling. Thats the only way to describe it! Loki didn't bark or growl which is odd for him.

At this point they got taken into different parts of the house and left to eat their bone.

So what happened? It was very out of character for Wylie. He hovers and hangs around and makes Loki upset but this was the first time he actively tried to chase him away from his food. I was wondering if it related to how stressed Wylie got when I boarded him?

I'm not looking for what to do, I am aware of Loki's problems and I'm working around them. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me why this situation happened? Wylie is 7 now and this is the first actual sign of aggression towards Loki. (Not that I would count it as aggresion?) Has he finally got sick of being put in his place? Or is it a result of Wylie being a bit stressed from the boarding situation?

I wont feed them together for now, even under supervisation just in case.

So any ideas? I am really curious about canine behaviour, I learn things every day

Edited December 16, 2011 by Che Guava

[Simply Grand]

Che, you sound like a fantastic owner. I think Shibas are fantastic dogs, from the few I've met at least, and definitely gorgeous.

I'm not a behaviourist or trainer but my first thought was that as Loki gets older and weaker Wylie is seeing himself as moving up in the ranks and basically taking advantage of Loki's weaknesses. Definitely don't think that makes Wylie bad in any way, in fact seems like natural behaviour

that the younger stronger healthier dog has the instinct to take over for survivals' sake.

I don't know of Wylie could be trained out of it, could well be that separation and supervision are the best options.

Could be that the kenneling was the trigger for them both that things are changing and the dynamic was dIfferent when they came home.

You may well need to keep a close eye but "discussing"

pack status is to me a natural dog behaviour and something to keep a close eye on but not necessarily put a stop to.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Saxonpup

[Greytmate]

Don't over -think it.

Just feed your dogs their bones separately.

Bones are a high value resource, often much higher value than normal food. So it is quite normal for the young dog to want to take the older one's bone. He thought he could get away with it, and he would have if you were not there.

Next time, Loki might decide not to give up the bone without a fight.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Greytmate

[persephone]

yep... there are probably a few factors at play, including loki probably having subtle body language and response time changes due to his loss of vision.

Feeding them out of sight of each other will remove triggers.

[LizT]

Don't over -think it.

Just feed your dogs their bones separately.

Bones are a high value resource, often much higher value than normal food. So it is quite normal for the young dog to want to take the older one's bone. He thought he could get away with it, and he would have if you were not there.

Next time, Loki might decide not to give up the bone without a fight.

I agree, dogs will be dogs and bones are a prize to be taken and this is what can happen. The reason it has'nt before is you. You are very dilligent and as pack leader they are observant of your overseeing things. But that doesn't mean that it's not worth giving it a go.

As the older dogs becomes less of the leader the younger will become more and more assertive to what he feels is rightly his, (with a bit of conquest first of course to add to the excitment)!

As to what happened when being boarded, often the younger will show stress that is unknown and unseen in it's home environment. He doesn't stress at home because he is happy, secure and confident there. You are used to seeing the older dog stress becuse his triggers are those things that occur randomly but at home like storms, fireworks etc. and because he is the dog that everything happens too!

[Dame Aussie]

I agree, Wylie can probably sense that Loki is getting older and figures he can get away with it.

Luckily you were there.