Olivebaby Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Hi all. Just wondering whether any of the breeders out there could answer these question for me. How did you first get started? I get you probably started with a dog but how did you go about choosing and finding the right sire? Where did you get all your information from and how on earth did you know what you were doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) I'd shown horses, so knew what it would take to show a dog and had some idea about basic conformation and movement in the breed I wanted. I called a very old and well respected breeder, told them what I wanted, she picked the pup for me and he became my first Champion, Best In Group & Runner Up In Show winner. I went from there, exhibited and titled another 4 before I decided to breed. ETA: My first dog was never bred from, he was not purchased as a sire, he was purchased to show and learn the ropes. Edited December 15, 2011 by Pav Lova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWei Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I haven't bred anything... yet... hopefully in the next year if all goes to plan... BUT... I would say, being involved in showing, atleast initially is the BEST way to learn the ropes, learn what your dog has and doesn't have in regards to the conformation standard of the breed, get the contacts and see the dogs in the flesh and find one which will compliement your bitch. A GOOD mentor is also invaluable!!! Preferably the breeder of your bitch. The breeder of my bitch isn't my mentor, she doesn't show much. I am lucky though that I have a number of well respected and experienced breeders that are very happy to help me along the way, both in the breed of my girl and in another breed that I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Hi all. Just wondering whether any of the breeders out there could answer these question for me. How did you first get started? I get you probably started with a dog but how did you go about choosing and finding the right sire? Where did you get all your information from and how on earth did you know what you were doing? Before you choose the right sire, you need the right bitch. Before you buy the right bitch, you need to be sure you are in the right breed. As Pav Lova says, it is often best to start with a dog, because they are much easier to show. I'm not a breeder (might breed one day), but I learned about dogs from my dog's breeders, from going to dog shows, from going to obedience club and learning to be an instructor, from lots of books and reading, from working with greyhounds, and from Internet forums like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I am new to breeding. I have always been into dogs, and grew up with show dogs. My breed of choice is different to that I grew up with. It was actually my second dog of my breed of choice that really cemented my love of the breed. When I picked my bitch I picked her with the intent I 'may' breed one day so I spent alot of time finding her. I did not make up my mind to breed with her until she was almost 2. I do not show, I train and compete in agility. So while conformation is important it was her temperament and ability to work which was the factors that made my final decision she is the right bitch for breeding. Unfortunetly the breeder of my bitch is in another state. Luckily the owner of the stud dog we used for the first litter was very helping. Also I have an excellent vet in which I have been taking my dogs to for about 7 years prior to my first litter which was always available to help! I brought a stack of books and before my first litter I spent some time with the vet where he went through what to expect, what I need to do and i asked him lots of questions. I would not have benn able to do it without my vet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Thank you for all the information. Unfortunately my breeder too is in another state, but yes the vet may be a good idea. I will continue to research and find information, my girl is almost a year and only just went into her first season so I still have plenty of time to decide. I thought about showing and trialling a while back, but have decided against it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 If you have not shown your girl how do you know that she is worthy of breeding? Is she registered with your states Canine Council on the main register? Are you a member of your states Canine Council? What about your breed club are you a member of that? Why do you want to breed your girl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 I dont believe you NEED to show your dog to know whether they are worthy but I do agree that you need a second, third, forth opinion from people in the know, to know whether they are worthy and suitable for breeding. Yes she is on the mains register. My breeder chose her for me based on the fact that I said I may want to show or breed at a later date. Yes I'm a member of the canine council and no I'm not a member of my breed club. I wasn't in a rush to get her. I waited and waited and got her from the eatern states. I may want to breed from her in the future if she is sound in health and temperament. If she conforms with the breed standard and has no health issues, low hip scores etc. then I would like the opportunity and the privilege to help better my breed. I want to produce sound puppies that have a good family history. I have the time and love for this so providing she works out then I shall consider breeding At the end of the day people are going to buy puppies regardless. They will buy them from a pet shop, or a car boot, or some run down dirty home that just happened to have a Male and female of the same breed but are unregistered and have had no health checks. . So why not help to decrease these sorts of puppies? Please let me reiterate that I will NOT be breeding from her if she does not conform with the breed standard. But I would love some help and guidance because I know that everybody has to start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Unfortunately my breeder too is in another state, but yes the vet may be a good idea. Being in different states shouldn't prevent your breeder from being a valuable source of information, assistance and mentorship While were were still in Victoria I sold a show/breeding potential puppy to a lady in WA who was just starting out. We had (and continue to have) lots of discussions on breeding directions for her girl, I offered all advice I could, answered any questions I could and did all in my power to mentor her. I now count her as a lovely, good friend - she has bred 2 litters from her bitch, and we purchased a male from one of those litters. Unless there is some reason why communication isn't possible, please don't discount your breeder as being an important source of assistance in starting a breeding program, just because they are interstate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Thank you Allzeit, I had a lot of communication prior to and for the first few months of getting my girl. And I'm sure she would give me lots of good advice as she has been breeding for many many years. She knows my intentions with my baby girl so I guess I will wait for her to have her x-rays and health checks in a few months and get the ball rolling from there. :-) An old from has intended and I believe still is intending to breed her male (same breed) but his hips scores were high and unequal (although sti under breed average) She wanted to mate our two but I am completely against that idea based on the hip scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) I started out with a male English setter - I wanted a pet but got a show one so gave it a go. I was hooked. I changed breeds back to Weis and purchased a bitch. I had the same idea as the OP that she had to turn out first and be worthy of breeding, however I did show her and had the desire to title her first. I was always keeping my eye out for stud dogs even though I hadn't chosen to breed yet. I was fully aware of my bitches faults and her strengths, the direction I wanted to head if I chose to breed and a fairly good idea of my goals for the breed. When I made the decision to breed her I took another year to choose a stud dog. I chose a stud dog pretty much after the national and contacted the breeder. I already met them from the national and they have a close relationship with my girls breeder so it didn't make things difficult. Unfortunately in my breed at the time there was nothing really in WA that I wanted to use so i made the decision to choose the very best stud dog that suited my bitch because i didnt want to start of my lines using a mediocre dog or a dog that didn't suit her. To do that, I had to send her over east. I do feel that it's not always necessary to show, however i do believe that in order to best learn, you do need to do a lot of reading, as well as observation, and have a fantastic mentor that is willing to be critical of your dog and help you choose a stud. You need to know your standard inside and out, and you need to have a good idea of the type of dog you like, and where you want to head. it's not enough to want to breed for temperament or to breed for "pets", because conformation is so important as well. Showing does aid in the learning process though, not necessarily showing your own dog, but watching other dogs, watching the consistent winners in your breed and others. it helps because you learn about structure and movement in all breeds and it teaches you more about your own. It's so easy to sit and watch your own dog at home and think that it is a nice dog until you put it up against another one and realise that your dog has faults and strong points like all of them. Oh, and I arranged to assist a whelping before I had my own (wasn't the same breed). That was absolutely invaluable to me. The bitch I assisted with the breeder had a long, more difficult labour than my own bitch did. The hands on experience of that was 100 times better than anything I could have read out of a book. ETA I have a very close relationship with Ari's breeder, we constantly discuss dogs and breeding, she sends me photos of litters and asks me to choose a favourite. Her help, even from afar, has been so incredibly helpful to me. I bouce my plans and ideas off her. Edited December 16, 2011 by SparkyTansy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Given you have a breed that is already breed in big numbers & always easy to get pups i doubt the having a litter to stop buying from a pet shop of BYB will make any difference. What it comes down to is what your bitch has to offer the breed long term especially if the people who buy from you want to breed.show or compete in dog sports. The advantage of showing or competing in a dog sport is you have knowledge to pass onto puppy buyers ,a good breeder is someone who has more knowledge than the pet shop or BYB when they ask for assistance. Showing also gets you out amongst other breeders. The breed club in this state can offer much knowledge on the current health testing (not sure what you girl is tested for or clear by parentage for) . Going to shows (depending on the lines of your bitch whether show or working lines ) will allow you to see the current males that are about,allow you to see the progeny that is being produced & what lines have the ideals qualities you are wanting or need improving on ,these things are learnt by reading the breed standard,understanding the breeds major characteristics & then understanding your bitches pedigree & the history of what has been produced in those lines & the strengths & weakness,this can be done by looking at pictures on the net & your breeder being very honest . You can consider if not already known what colour your bitch carries. Is she clear for EIS,PRA or carrier /affected . What is her height,does she have correct scissor bite,good otter tail,is her coat texture a good quality. When she moves is she sound.bum high,does she have a low set tail or to high set tail,is she short on leg or too much leg & the list goes on All these must be considered in then looking at sires that will help to improve her faults so the litter will ne for the betterment . It also comes down to how much you wish to pay for a stud fee some people want the cheapest others are prepared to pay good money for the right male but you need to get out & see these males for yoursefl,introduce yourself to breeders & get yourself known . Some stud owners will say yes without a second thought,i prefer stud owners who wish to assess .ask questions & if need be say "no" if they don't beleive the combo will be suited or if the bitch isn't of quality say no to there sires being used . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 That is some great information there sparkytansy. I have been to a show for my breed and was blown away by the dogs I saw. My girl was only 4 months at the time and I felt I had a lot to live up to. I will definitely start taking her to shows just to watch and perhaps have a chat with some breeders. It would be great to find a mentor through all of this. I really feel there are a lot of judgmental dog people out there and I guess that's what scares me off asking for help. Some people jump to the conclusion that because I am new to all of this I must have improper motives and won't do the right thing. If my girl now doesn't work out for breeding, it doesn't matter. She is my whole life but I will absolutely be contacting another breeder for a second pup and perhaps can start a mentorship from the get go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 You are absolutely right showdog. She is almost 11 months, is it too early to tell whether her physical characteristics and structure meet the breed standard. To me she seems to be a short Labrador. She doesn't have particularly long legs and she had a nice solid body. I specifically chose her breeder because of this. I love the look of short, stocky labs. She is approximately 65cm from floor to base of neck and currently weighs about 27kg. She does have the right tail. The only thing, and I'm not sure if it is a fault or not is she seems to have slightly longer hair than a lot of labs I have seen. It doesn't hang down or anything and it looks normal but when you get close you can tell it's longer. She also has a slight wave to her back. But she has a beautiful shiny coat. She is black and carries yellow and black. I believe her great grandmother was chocolate but that is the only chocolate in her lineage. She is head strong and has a very extraverted personality with absolutely no fear. She is quick and eager to please but in choosing a sire I would be looking for one that is more relaxed. Don't get me wrong I love my girls personality and she has me in fits of laughter constantly but I think two head strong dogs could produce some pain in the butt pups. :-) I think it's probably best to check out some more shows and perhaps get her examined to see how she is developing and whether she is meeting the standards. I am new and I am biased. To me she is great but I do know her flaws and I would love to have other opinions about them and whether they are deal breakers for breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 65cm that is the size of my Weim from wither to floor, and she is on the tall side for her breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) She doesn't have particularly long legs and she had a nice solid body. I specifically chose her breeder because of this. I love the look of short, stocky labs. She is approximately 65cm from floor to base of neck and currently weighs about 27kg. If she is 65cm at the withers she is well above the average for both dogs and bitches. Are you measuring her from her withers? 65cm doesn't sound right. Dogs should be 56-57cm and bitches 55-56cm. My bitches are 53cm and their legs aren't short. Do you have any photos you can share of your girl? Edited December 16, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 65cm that is the size of my Weim from wither to floor, and she is on the tall side for her breed. I agree this is tall for a lab. My girl is also about 27kg and is 53cm (she has been measured for agility). She is very lean and has long legs - which is perfect for agility!! My boy on the other hand is just a fraction taller but weights 38kg. He is a stocky boy with short legs. His build is not cut out for agility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Ok hahaha so I must of measured wrong. She isn't great at standing still and she had no idea what a tape measure was. I just measure her again agaist my leg and she is 49 cm. Does that sound better hahah? Avaunt it's probably a bit out as I'm not quiet sure of the exact right spot. I'll get the vet to do it for me next time I go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Can I upload photos from an iPhone on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I dont believe you NEED to show your dog to know whether they are worthy but I do agree that you need a second, third, forth opinion from people in the know, to know whether they are worthy and suitable for breeding. Yes she is on the mains register. My breeder chose her for me based on the fact that I said I may want to show or breed at a later date. Yes I'm a member of the canine council and no I'm not a member of my breed club. I wasn't in a rush to get her. I waited and waited and got her from the eatern states. I may want to breed from her in the future if she is sound in health and temperament. If she conforms with the breed standard and has no health issues, low hip scores etc. then I would like the opportunity and the privilege to help better my breed. I want to produce sound puppies that have a good family history. I have the time and love for this so providing she works out then I shall consider breeding At the end of the day people are going to buy puppies regardless. They will buy them from a pet shop, or a car boot, or some run down dirty home that just happened to have a Male and female of the same breed but are unregistered and have had no health checks. . So why not help to decrease these sorts of puppies? Please let me reiterate that I will NOT be breeding from her if she does not conform with the breed standard. But I would love some help and guidance because I know that everybody has to start somewhere. No matter how many dogs you breed or what dogs you breed with, it will not help decrease the amount of irresponsible breeding in our community. There is no logic in that statement. You don't NEED to show your dog, but it is the way you are going to get a first, second, third, fourth opinion, from those that are in the know. That is the (only) purpose of dog shows. Why not show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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