Starkehre Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) This is something I plan to call Dogs Vic about, but just curious if anyone here either knows the correct answer to this or thinks they might... OK, so when your breeds club holds a specialty, you are unable to receive CCs in that breed at any all breeds shows within the same state. And if it is a National, then I think the same rules apply within a distance of 1000kms. So, my question is, can you receive Neuter CCs in the above situations/distances if the Specialty or National are not offering any neuter classes? I know Neuter CCs are not entire CCs, so I think this should be allowed, but I don't technically know. Can anyone advise please? Edited December 13, 2011 by dyzney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 This is something I plan to call Dogs Vic about, but just curious if anyone here either knows the correct answer to this or thinks they might... OK, so when your breeds club holds a specialty, you are unable to receive CCs in that breed at any all breeds shows within the same state. And if it is a National, then I think the same rules apply within a distance of 1000kms. So, my question is, can you receive Neuter CCs in the above situations/distances if the Specialty or National are not offering any neuter classes? I know Neuter CCs are not entire CCs, so I think this should be allowed, but I don't technically know. Can anyone advise please? I dont' believe that to be correct (the first part I have bolded - not in this state anyway - NSW). The National ruling is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) This is something I plan to call Dogs Vic about, but just curious if anyone here either knows the correct answer to this or thinks they might... OK, so when your breeds club holds a specialty, you are unable to receive CCs in that breed at any all breeds shows within the same state. And if it is a National, then I think the same rules apply within a distance of 1000kms. So, my question is, can you receive Neuter CCs in the above situations/distances if the Specialty or National are not offering any neuter classes? I know Neuter CCs are not entire CCs, so I think this should be allowed, but I don't technically know. Can anyone advise please? I dont' believe that to be correct (the first part I have bolded - not in this state anyway - NSW). The National ruling is correct. Thanks Aziah. In Vic that is the case. But all that aside, it is more about the neuter CCs that I would like to know about. Edited December 13, 2011 by dyzney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
experiencedfun Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think the wording is CC's, so that would apply to both entire and neuter. Why shouldnt you expect to see the best neuters at a breed show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think the wording is CC's, so that would apply to both entire and neuter. Why shouldnt you expect to see the best neuters at a breed show. I see what you are saying EF, but my question is relating to the situation where the specialty is NOT offering any Neuter Classes, so you are unable to enter the neuter at the specialty show anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think the wording is CC's, so that would apply to both entire and neuter. Why shouldnt you expect to see the best neuters at a breed show. I see what you are saying EF, but my question is relating to the situation where the specialty is NOT offering any Neuter Classes, so you are unable to enter the neuter at the specialty show anyway. I don't think it matters - it's still a CC... I guess Dogs VIC will need to answer this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think the wording is CC's, so that would apply to both entire and neuter. Why shouldnt you expect to see the best neuters at a breed show. I see what you are saying EF, but my question is relating to the situation where the specialty is NOT offering any Neuter Classes, so you are unable to enter the neuter at the specialty show anyway. I don't think it matters - it's still a CC... I guess Dogs VIC will need to answer this one! You could well be right Aziah, I appreciate your input. Yes, just waiting for them to call me back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRD Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) This is something I plan to call Dogs Vic about, but just curious if anyone here either knows the correct answer to this or thinks they might... OK, so when your breeds club holds a specialty, you are unable to receive CCs in that breed at any all breeds shows within the same state. And if it is a National, then I think the same rules apply within a distance of 1000kms. So, my question is, can you receive Neuter CCs in the above situations/distances if the Specialty or National are not offering any neuter classes? I know Neuter CCs are not entire CCs, so I think this should be allowed, but I don't technically know. Can anyone advise please? Just a correction for the National Shows, in 2010 the wording was changed from no challenge certificates may be awarded etc - to no Challenge may be awarded......(ANKC Regulations part 13 4.2.4) Under the old rule it was possible for an exhibit to be shown at a show, within 1000km of its breed Nationals and win Best in Show without receiving a challenge certificate or any points. The new rule prevents this, as if there is no dog or bitch challenge, there is no Best of Breed. With no BoB, that breed can not be represented in the BiG line up. With Neuters, there has been no amendment to the above rule to incorporate Neuter Certificates (note there is no mention of the word "Challenge" in any of the regulations relating to the Neuter classes) so it is currently possible for a club to offer the Neuter classes, certificates and points on the same day as a breed National even if it is within the 1000km radius of the Nationals. This will be addressed during the formulation of the National Rules for Conformation Shows, but these rules will not take effect until at least 2014. Graham Edited December 13, 2011 by GRD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Thanks Graham. As always you are a wealth of knowledge. I had not previous noticed the word "challenge" omitted from Neuter Certificate, so I can see why that would make the technical difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRD Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Thanks Graham. As always you are a wealth of knowledge. I had not previous noticed the word "challenge" omitted from Neuter Certificate, so I can see why that would make the technical difference. It was omitted specifically to to make sure there was no confusion between the two types of certificates and the 2 remain totally seperate. This means that when a rule is changed for the entire classes, it does not automatically mean it changes for the neuters as well. The change to the 25 points after 12 months old is an example, the motion for this change did not include the neuter points systems so that change has not been made to the neuter title (don't worry an electronic motion is already in place for this to be amended). The good thing about it is that the neuter points system can be tweaked without it altering the system for entire exhibits. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Thanks again Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Good points Dzney. If you only had one entire dog and one neuter and the National was not offering neuter class and there was one local I would go local. GRD why don't you put up a motion to make class 18 compulsory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRD Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Good points Dzney. If you only had one entire dog and one neuter and the National was not offering neuter class and there was one local I would go local. GRD why don't you put up a motion to make class 18 compulsory. That was put forward last year and soundly defeated. No other class is mandatory so to do so for neuters could cause friction that we really don't need. Remember some states do not approve of the title so would never support mandatory classes. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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