Agility Dogs Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 You can teach good manners and making good choices through having fun Not if the dog has something more fun to do. This statement shows that you don't really know what reward based methods and clicker training is all about. This is very common with "traditional" trainers, they think that clicker training means the dog is free to do whatever it wants at all times and you just click and capture it whenever it happens to do something right. So for the record, that's not how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsadogslife Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Would you really be happy with a dog like that? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 They're talking to Steve so they'll get this. I would be very suprised if his program was "ignore the dog, yank, yank, yank" Steve's methodology is teach the behavior, train the behavior, proof the behavior. It's the same basic methodology that Koehler uses. So you shouldn't have any problem then. I can't speak for Steve but I have consulted him to deal with my DA dog (before you say "hazaaaa, positive methods produce dangerous dogs" she is a puppy farm rescue and has spent most of her life relegated to a small cage, never walked, no name etc). His advice seems very different to what you've been espousing. Most of it is about me, not the dog. It is about building focus and engagement. About giving her predictability. Never once was a correction mentioned. Huski - since you're the only K9Pro person here, let me know if I've broken any rules about talking about our consult! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Would you really be happy with a dog like that? Yes. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Would you really be happy with a dog like that? Yes. To be honest I find that quite sad. You certainly wouldn't be likely to win with a dog like that against any top competitors here, and there is so much room for improvement that I am confused why you'd never aim for a higher standard or to at least have a better dog. If that's the best koehler training can produce, I am majorly underwhelmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsadogslife Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 You make sure the dog doesn't have something more fun to do LOL. Of course heaven forbid teaching the dog to act responsibility. Being responsible means making the right choice even if you might at the moment prefer to do something else. If you never allow that choice, you may well train behavior, but you haven't trained responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 1323745377[/url]' post='5630312']1323745241[/url]' post='5630305']Would you really be happy with a dog like that? Yes. Why? Maybe they like slow, unmotivated, old, American heelwork rounds, actually see plenty just like it at some dog clubs:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 1323745377[/url]' post='5630312']1323745241[/url]' post='5630305']Would you really be happy with a dog like that? Yes. Why? Maybe they like slow, unmotivated, old, American heelwork rounds, actually see plenty just like it at some dog clubs:p :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Would you really be happy with a dog like that? Yes. Why? Maybe they like slow, unmotivated, old, American heelwork rounds, actually see plenty just like it at some dog clubs:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 You make sure the dog doesn't have something more fun to do LOL. Of course heaven forbid teaching the dog to act responsibility. Being responsible means making the right choice even if you might at the moment prefer to do something else. If you never allow that choice, you may well train behavior, but you haven't trained responsibility. Have you even looked into motivation based methods? They are all about choice and getting the dog to choose the right one. Google "It's yer choice" game. Warning: Your dog may have fun playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsadogslife Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Posted by Huski To be honest I find that quite sad. You certainly wouldn't be likely to win with a dog like that against any top competitors here, and there is so much room for improvement that I am confused why you'd never aim for a higher standard or to at least have a better dog. If that's the best koehler training can produce, I am majorly underwhelmed. What makes you assume that my training goal is specifically or solely aimed at competition? If you want to train specifically to win competition then fine. The dog in that video was not trained specifically or solely for competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 It's goes beyond the dog having fun for me. I know if my dog worked like that we"d get beaten by better dogs all the time. For me training is about getting the best out of your dog, watching the dogs in the Koehler vids I find it hard to believe that is the best those dogs can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Posted by Huski To be honest I find that quite sad. You certainly wouldn't be likely to win with a dog like that against any top competitors here, and there is so much room for improvement that I am confused why you'd never aim for a higher standard or to at least have a better dog. If that's the best koehler training can produce, I am majorly underwhelmed. What makes you assume that my training goal is specifically or solely aimed at competition? If you want to train specifically to win competition then fine. The dog in that video was not trained specifically or solely for competition. It doens't matter what you are aiming for, shouldn't you always want to get the best out of your dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 You make sure the dog doesn't have something more fun to do LOL. Of course heaven forbid teaching the dog to act responsibility. Being responsible means making the right choice even if you might at the moment prefer to do something else. If you never allow that choice, you may well train behavior, but you haven't trained responsibility. SG is ALL about CHOICE Starting small and then building up from there. The Crate Games clip shows it as does Its Yer Choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Posted by Huski To be honest I find that quite sad. You certainly wouldn't be likely to win with a dog like that against any top competitors here, and there is so much room for improvement that I am confused why you'd never aim for a higher standard or to at least have a better dog. If that's the best koehler training can produce, I am majorly underwhelmed. What makes you assume that my training goal is specifically or solely aimed at competition? If you want to train specifically to win competition then fine. The dog in that video was not trained specifically or solely for competition. It doens't matter what you are aiming for, shouldn't you always want to get the best out of your dog? Even more than that if having a dog isn't about having fun then what is it about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Its clear that itsadoglife is only interested in controlling and being the "master" of his dog. Whether that comes through yelling at a puppy, hitting it with a belt or training with a check chain and no rewards or positive experiences. I feel sorry for your itsadoglife, I really do. I feel more sorry for your future dogs. One day you will buy a puppy or a older dog who these methods do not work for. Maybe that's what it will take for you to open your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Posted by Huski To be honest I find that quite sad. You certainly wouldn't be likely to win with a dog like that against any top competitors here, and there is so much room for improvement that I am confused why you'd never aim for a higher standard or to at least have a better dog. If that's the best koehler training can produce, I am majorly underwhelmed. What makes you assume that my training goal is specifically or solely aimed at competition? If you want to train specifically to win competition then fine. The dog in that video was not trained specifically or solely for competition. It doens't matter what you are aiming for, shouldn't you always want to get the best out of your dog? Even more than that if having a dog isn't about having fun then what is it about? Probably just a status symbol to some. Quite sad really! I own dogs for enjoyment. I don't own other pets because for me personally they wouldn't give me any enjoyment, so why would I want to own them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I have my dogs for fun, train them and compete with them for fun. I am always learning and trying to improve myself and my dog. Of course problem behaviours are not fun though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursus Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 All right then. If I want to train the dog myself, and if it is not Koehler, for basic obedience, what books or videos would you recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Where are you? People can recommend clubs/trainers in your area. A lot of things are easier face to face. Most DVDs I can think of are quite specific as to a method or skill being taught. Edited December 13, 2011 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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