2012 Pointscore - New Rules

[Bilbo Baggins]

I think most of the new rules are definitely in the right direction and help to make this a fair competition.

It is the loss of RUBOB in the Breed Competition that I am struggling with. I agree the breed competition needed improvement - removing the baby puppies, absentees and Neuters was a correct move. Including the opposite DCC or BCC was also appropriate. What I don’t see is how the competition can still represent the best dogs in the breed with the deletion of the RUBOB.

I have competed in two shows this year and in both shows my bitch received reserve challenge and RUBOB.

In the 2011 competition she would have received - 16 + 15 = 31 breed score points and

In the 2012 competition as RUBOB she received 0 + 0 = 0. The BOB received 15 + 15 = 30 points.

The DCC on both the days only competed against 3 other males and gets 9 + 9 = 18 points.

The DCC beats 3 dogs and gets 9 points and the RUBOB beats 9 dogs is declared second best on the day and gets no points??

I cannot see how the 2012 competition is a correct and fair representation of the best of the breed??

I agree a boy we have been showing over 6 shows got 5 RDC and 4 RUBOBs amd no points. :cry:

At least on the old scheme it would have counted.

[Gayle.]

I was a bit sad to see that neuter challenges don't count, only neuter of breed. I wasn't wanting to enter to win but I would have loved to have seen my little neuter girls name up there on the leader board but because she was awarded the challenges but not neuter of breed, she can't be there.

And yet entire dogs can be counted for challenges, even 6 point ones.

[Shaar]

I don't like that at a show you can have 25 bitches entered and only 1 dog. Both BOB and RUBOB are both bitches yet the bitch that beat 24 others gets nothing while the lone dog gets 6 points. Not fair at all.

[SparkyTansy]

I don't like that at a show you can have 25 bitches entered and only 1 dog. Both BOB and RUBOB are both bitches yet the bitch that beat 24 others gets nothing while the lone dog gets 6 points. Not fair at all.

but this is how it happens with challenge points, so should that change too?

[Riverstone]

I don't like that at a show you can have 25 bitches entered and only 1 dog. Both BOB and RUBOB are both bitches yet the bitch that beat 24 others gets nothing while the lone dog gets 6 points. Not fair at all.

but this is how it happens with challenge points, so should that change too?

I agree with Shaar - This is a meant to be a best of breed competition, it is not the same as earning championship points for your title. The results of this competition are advertised and promoted, unlike championship points.

How can the leader board be accurate and represent the best dog/s in a breed when the second placed dog/bitch at a show if it is a reserve challenge RUBOB gets no points?? Especially when the effectively third placed dog/bitch does get points.

I believe RUBOB should get the BOB points as stated on the certificate less 1 point. That is the only way this competition can be fair. The points can easily be checked against the other results entered for that show.

Including the RUBOB can still be changed for 2012 it is not too late, to make the competition more accurate!!!!

[Dogsfevr]

Seriously people it is just a point score .

[Dellcara]

Seriously people it is just a point score .

OMG ... I can't believe you said that :D :D to many it is very serious stuff indeed .. including

quite a few in your own breeds.

I'm sure you'd have to agree that you'd be disappointed if you won ResCC & RUBIS at one of the

Breed Specialities you attend over here and received NO points in the Breed competition.

I thought I might be tempted back to the Breed pointscore after not having participated the last

couple of years (having won the BOB pointscore in 2009), but I won't be in its present format as

I don't believe it recognises the Breeds "top" dogs correctly.

[Dogsfevr]

Seriously people it is just a point score .

OMG ... I can't believe you said that :D :D to many it is very serious stuff indeed .. including

quite a few in your own breeds.

I'm sure you'd have to agree that you'd be disappointed if you won ResCC & RUBIS at one of the

Breed Specialities you attend over here and received NO points in the Breed competition.

I thought I might be tempted back to the Breed pointscore after not having participated the last

couple of years (having won the BOB pointscore in 2009), but I won't be in its present format as

I don't believe it recognises the Breeds "top" dogs correctly.

It would make no difference for me ,i have no breed comp here so all these extra points mean nothing,i am unable to be competitive in the breed comp

Whilst i won the national section last year i finished well down in the breed area which is how it works for many of us with little to no comp.

Even if i won at the shows east it still wouldn't make any impact for me .

I guess i see it from the other end of the scale where being the only breed rep in your stta e means you miss out but it isn';t the end of the world.

I don't enter the breed comp as such,the only points recorded are those from the BIS/Grp wins where i can be competitive .

[Bug]

I agree that Runner Up BOB should get points. As it is, a dog that beats no other of its own sex and gets beaten by a a bitch which may have been reserve bitch in a big bitch entry and then gone to get runner up BOB gets no points. These new rules award a dog for being no better than third best exhibit in the breed at a show.

Hypothetical but at the end of the year Top place may go to a bitch who has won the most BOB while 2nd place may go to a dog who has never beaten another dog, while a bitch who was R/U BOB every week beaten by an outstanding bitch in large breed entries, will not figure in the pointscore.

It is sad that this was not taken into consideration. It should not be about who wins the most challenges or challenge points but about recognising the top winners in a breed. The dog judged no better than third best in a breed is not one of the top winners on any day.

It is silly that a r/u BOB can get R/U in Grp and then get points in the allbreeds but not gain points in the breed competition.

With only 2 weeks of the pointscore underway surely it is not too late to amend this. Let those who have already had points recognised for challenge keep those points but amend the rules to include runner up BOB. The only folk who could possibly object are those who cannot win a runner up BOB

The new rule of no points for R/U BOB is degrading the prestige of the pointscore.

[Troy]

I agree that Runner Up BOB should get points. As it is, a dog that beats no other of its own sex and gets beaten by a a bitch which may have been reserve bitch in a big bitch entry and then gone to get runner up BOB gets no points. These new rules award a dog for being no better than third best exhibit in the breed at a show.

Hypothetical but at the end of the year Top place may go to a bitch who has won the most BOB while 2nd place may go to a dog who has never beaten another dog, while a bitch who was R/U BOB every week beaten by an outstanding bitch in large breed entries, will not figure in the pointscore.

It is sad that this was not taken into consideration. It should not be about who wins the most challenges or challenge points but about recognising the top winners in a breed. The dog judged no better than third best in a breed is not one of the top winners on any day.

It is silly that a r/u BOB can get R/U in Grp and then get points in the allbreeds but not gain points in the breed competition.

With only 2 weeks of the pointscore underway surely it is not too late to amend this. Let those who have already had points recognised for challenge keep those points but amend the rules to include runner up BOB. The only folk who could possibly object are those who cannot win a runner up BOB

The new rule of no points for R/U BOB is degrading the prestige of the pointscore.

Whilst I understand that people say it doesn't truly reflect the best of the breed this year, the previous year's competition didn't either (in previous years a dog may have won the competition without ever having won a BOB ... it all depended on how many dogs entered the breed in the location that you showed in).

The case of the number of dogs being entered will always have a major effect on the outcome regardless of whether we include R/UP BOB or not (or what other changes we make).

There will definitely be no changes made this year. We have have a look at it again for next year so it you are unhappy, sit the year out and wait to see if we make any changes for next year to entice you back.

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

If you go BIS you should be required to submit your breed score, ditto BIG !

[Keshwar]

If you go BIS you should be required to submit your breed score, ditto BIG !

Why?

Surely the breed score is irrelevant if you get BIS or BIG as you will have beaten the best of each breed for in Group or the best of each group for in Show. At that point it doesn't really matter if you have beaten 0 dogs or 20 dogs in breed competition.

[Bullbreedlover]

I still dont like the way the Best of Breed comp is run in regards to Reserve of Breed winner getting nothing.

Reserve of Breed in alot of cases can be really important for a breed in the eyes of exhibitors but for this comp now it means nothing.

I know I refer more to the actual breed results than the groups or in shows.

They to me are a true reflection of a points score competition on a National basis.

When you have an entry of say 30 in your breed and you get Reserve Dog and Reserve of Breed its just too bad, so sad never mind. And yet you achieved a huge award as such.

Oh well

It will be interesting to see just how this all pans out as far as people who submit results go.

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

If you go BIS you should be required to submit your breed score, ditto BIG !

Why?

Surely the breed score is irrelevant if you get BIS or BIG as you will have beaten the best of each breed for in Group or the best of each group for in Show. At that point it doesn't really matter if you have beaten 0 dogs or 20 dogs in breed competition.

You may be seeing it as someone who regards the All Breeds comp as the important thing and I may be seeing it as someone who sees the Best of Breed comp as the important thing. Regardless, why submit only partial results?

CC

[Pugsley1]

"I find it a bit disappointing that Rising Star results with less than 250 dogs entered will be halved. This means every show in the NT.

Just because the numbers don't turn up, doesn't mean the quality isn't there and any less worthy of reward."

I must say that I agree with Paptacular... in the NT ALL our shows are under 250exhibits, so that means that all our wins will be halved!! Don't see how that is really fair just because we don't have numbers up here

Love the other changes though... just think that we up here in NT(and other smaller areas around the country) seem to be penalised for not living in the 'Big Smoke'

Sorry for the whinge Troy I think you have done a great job with the Pointscore and understand you can’t please all, but for us up here it is a huge blow... we already struggle to keep up with the rest because of our numbers...

Thanks