Living With A Serial Escape Artist.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Gayle I feel your pain. We will be getting a 1.8 colourbond fence soon, which I think will need to be hotwired.

I have talked to Greg Browne about escape artists. He has read somewhere that they acquire this knowledge around 4 to 6 weeks. Once obtained its there for ever.So prevention is the go. Pups try escaping at the point so if you have a roof on them they hit that then drop back. After a few goes they give up.

Greg has an import Irish that can only be in a totally closed run. His kids who had a lidded do not escape.

The thought is they escape because they can. Actually must ask Greg if he remembers the Website he read it on.

ETA. Found this out because we were discussing escape artist Cavs. Cvas are very good at climbing.

That's interesting. I'm almost certain that Ripley learned it from his mother. My best friend used to be friends with his breeder and she's told me the mother was also a climber.....she would climb my friends high Colourbond gate just because she could. It didn't get her anywhere, just into a space at the side of the house that she couldn't get out of but it didn't stop her climbing the gate any chance she got.

It would be interesting to find out if his litter mates are the same.

For the other dogs here, the fences are a barrier. They don't even try to get out, they just accept that they can't. Even Benson, who was the smartest dog I ever knew, and who was very good at problem solving, didn't try and get out if it wasn't an obvious escape route.

For Ripley, the fences aren't a barrier, they're just something to get over. And when we make it impossible for him to get over one section, he finds another section to tackle. When we find him out of the yard, he's happy as can be to see us, even if he's only been out a few seconds. He;s not getting out because he doesn't want to be here or because he doesn't want to play with the other dogs, or because he gets bored in the yard, he's getting out because the fence is there to be climbed.

Dogs. Who'd have 'em???

I was replying on my Iphone before and it was tricky.

Now if the breeders had contained them it would have broken the cycle. Its obvious he does because he can. Hotwire might definitely be the go.

[Jed]

Electric fence, or ping string, not on the top, but somewhere on the way up where he has to touch it. It has worked for me about 15cms off the ground.

Second option is to string and strain 10 gauge wire from top of post to top of post. Thread it through a piece of polypipe the same length as from post to post, so the polypipe is sitting as a "top-rail" to the fence. Polypipe needs to be about 7 - 10 ml in diameter. The general idea is that when the dog reaches the top, he puts a paw on the polypipe which rolls - he then feels insecure when it rolls under his foot.

I hope that makes sense, I am not sure how "understandable" my description is.

Obviously, this wont work unless the dog is climbing, not jumping.

Good luck,

[Little Gifts]

I had one of these and he simply needed to be with people. I once saw him hang by his hips from my back deck, between the metal bars, then he used his back toenails to push his hips bit by bit through the bars until he dropped to the ground. After I saw that I realised all my yard reinforcement efforts were futile. We lived on small acreage so I spoke to my neighbours and not one of them had an issue with him visiting while I was at work. He usually just sat on their front verandahs watching the world go by and then went and sat in the middle of the intersection waiting for me to come home from work late in the afternoon. I never knew that at the time of course - apparently all the neighbours were just fine driving around him!

When I moved in to the suburbs my yard here is escape proof as he was a destroyer rather than a climber or digger. He was older by then and more content to lounge around with our other dog. Plus he actually seemed more comfortable in a smaller yard. But he injued himself trying to get out through the metal garage door a couple of times when storms were coming so after that I'd either have to come home and take him back to work with me or mum would come over and sit with him.

If you have money to spend on trying fence overhangs then do it. If not then I'd probably just keep him inside. It sounds like visiting and wandering are just in his nature even though you have a perfectly good yard to play in!

[Kirty]

Gayle, my friend has a mini Foxie and they live on acreage. They bought an invisible fence system and fenced off about an acre of their land. So dog can romp around but not go past the boundaries he has been taught. Basically, the wire is laid under the ground (I think), the dog wears a special collar, and when it gets too close to the wire, it gets a beep then a zap. They very quickly learn where the boundaries are.

[sallyandtex]

One of my rescues was escaping out of an extremely secure yard...

They bought a hidden fence and installed it / did the training and she so far has not escaped!

http://www.hiddenfence.com.au/

They rely on the dog wearing a collar, and a collar on this particular dog frightens me more than him escaping. He's not digging, we know that for sure. He's also not jumping, but he is possibly climbing. And a climbing dog wearing a collar is a recipe for disaster. However, I wouldn;t mind at least trying one, but I don't think they offer a try before you buy option.

We have looked at a ping string for the top of the fence we think he's probably climbing (only due to the fact that he's twice been found next door and it's unlikely he'd end up there unless he went over the fence) but the bloke at the stock and feed store didn't think it would work because it relies on part of the body touching the earth. If he's climbing that fence, there's no way he can go over the fence and have a foot on the ground.

We have a containment collar, but you can set the "warning' beep at a distance, so if you bury it on the boundary, it would go off at a distance before that to warn the dog, and also the "correction" can be set at a distance as well, so there is no risk of the dog being on the fence with the collar on. If you try one the training is imperitive, and make sure it is a good quality one with training mode and different options. We have one made in Australai (Sureguard), they have a shop here and are very helpful over the phone. Good Luck!@

[sas]

One of my rescues was escaping out of an extremely secure yard...

They bought a hidden fence and installed it / did the training and she so far has not escaped!

http://www.hiddenfence.com.au/

They rely on the dog wearing a collar, and a collar on this particular dog frightens me more than him escaping. He's not digging, we know that for sure. He's also not jumping, but he is possibly climbing. And a climbing dog wearing a collar is a recipe for disaster. However, I wouldn;t mind at least trying one, but I don't think they offer a try before you buy option.

We have looked at a ping string for the top of the fence we think he's probably climbing (only due to the fact that he's twice been found next door and it's unlikely he'd end up there unless he went over the fence) but the bloke at the stock and feed store didn't think it would work because it relies on part of the body touching the earth. If he's climbing that fence, there's no way he can go over the fence and have a foot on the ground.

I'd be more frightened by him getting hit by a car / causing an accident etc. With the collar, he wouldn't get close to the fence to climb it. Even something as simple as this (with the outdoor model): http://innotek.com.au/innotek-home/Zone-Collar-Kit

Edited December 10, 2011 by MEH

[sas]

Yeah, I think a hot wire might be worth a try, halfway up and near the top of the fence. I'll talk to my husband about it tonight. It would be easier if we could identify exactly how he's getting out but I think I can probably take a good stab at which length of fence he's scaling.

By the time we're done, our place will look like a high security prIson.

Do a prentend leave and watch how he's getting out....you may need to go next door to watch.

[Gayle.]

The only thing with something that provides an electric stim, I would really need to try it first. I borrowed a very expensive remote stim collar to use on Isaak, as he has a bad habit of trying to herd me and I wanted to break him of that without having to push him away.

The collar belongs to a co-worker and I had it for 3 weeks while she was on holidays. I set it on the lowest level and put the collar on. Used the remote when he jumped.....no effect. I tried a higher setting....nothing. I checked the collar was working, it was......turned it up.....no effect. No brain, no pain? I tried it time and again over the 3 weeks I had it and the stim had NO effect whatsoever on Isaak. So I would have to be sure that a stim would work on Ripley before spending that kind of money because he might just go right over or through an electrified barrier without blinking an eye.

[Gayle.]

Yeah, I think a hot wire might be worth a try, halfway up and near the top of the fence. I'll talk to my husband about it tonight. It would be easier if we could identify exactly how he's getting out but I think I can probably take a good stab at which length of fence he's scaling.

By the time we're done, our place will look like a high security prIson.

Do a prentend leave and watch how he's getting out....you may need to go next door to watch.

He's not leaving as soon as we do. My husband has been coming home through the day, dropping in to pick up tools or whatever, and Ripley has been safely where he's supposed to be. It seems to be mostly towards the end of the day...maybe he's come looking for us.

[sallyandtex]

The only thing with something that provides an electric stim, I would really need to try it first. I borrowed a very expensive remote stim collar to use on Isaak, as he has a bad habit of trying to herd me and I wanted to break him of that without having to push him away.

The collar belongs to a co-worker and I had it for 3 weeks while she was on holidays. I set it on the lowest level and put the collar on. Used the remote when he jumped.....no effect. I tried a higher setting....nothing. I checked the collar was working, it was......turned it up.....no effect. No brain, no pain? I tried it time and again over the 3 weeks I had it and the stim had NO effect whatsoever on Isaak. So I would have to be sure that a stim would work on Ripley before spending that kind of money because he might just go right over or through an electrified barrier without blinking an eye.

Did you test it on yourself to see if it was working? No reaction there would be something wrong somewhere The one we use the fur had to be shaved too, so maybe that could be it??

[Gayle.]

The only thing with something that provides an electric stim, I would really need to try it first. I borrowed a very expensive remote stim collar to use on Isaak, as he has a bad habit of trying to herd me and I wanted to break him of that without having to push him away.

The collar belongs to a co-worker and I had it for 3 weeks while she was on holidays. I set it on the lowest level and put the collar on. Used the remote when he jumped.....no effect. I tried a higher setting....nothing. I checked the collar was working, it was......turned it up.....no effect. No brain, no pain? I tried it time and again over the 3 weeks I had it and the stim had NO effect whatsoever on Isaak. So I would have to be sure that a stim would work on Ripley before spending that kind of money because he might just go right over or through an electrified barrier without blinking an eye.

Did you test it on yourself to see if it was working? No reaction there would be something wrong somewhere The one we use the fur had to be shaved too, so maybe that could be it??

Yes it was working, I can definitely testify to that. No, the fur shouldn't need shaving, the girl I borrowed it off uses it on a lab who has a thick ruff of hair around his neck and she definitely didn't shave her dog. Isaak is a show dog, so shaving is never going to be an option, but the collar came with longer prongs to use on long haired dogs. This wasn't a cheap collar, it cost my friend over $700.

I have used a cheap electronic stim barking collar before, on my first boy Benson (RIP) as he was a happy barker who loved the whole world to hear his voice. It worked with two barks. I tried the same collar on Isaak and it had no effect whatsoever (combined with herding me is a very annoying bark). He just seems to be impervious to the feel of an electric shock!

[Kirty]

Why don't you test one of those collars on Ripley then, just to see if he responds to the zap?

[shyfig]

One of my rescues was escaping out of an extremely secure yard...

They bought a hidden fence and installed it / did the training and she so far has not escaped!

http://www.hiddenfence.com.au/

They rely on the dog wearing a collar, and a collar on this particular dog frightens me more than him escaping. He's not digging, we know that for sure. He's also not jumping, but he is possibly climbing. And a climbing dog wearing a collar is a recipe for disaster. However, I wouldn;t mind at least trying one, but I don't think they offer a try before you buy option.

We have looked at a ping string for the top of the fence we think he's probably climbing (only due to the fact that he's twice been found next door and it's unlikely he'd end up there unless he went over the fence) but the bloke at the stock and feed store didn't think it would work because it relies on part of the body touching the earth. If he's climbing that fence, there's no way he can go over the fence and have a foot on the ground.

I have a hidden fence and have had both a german short haired pointer and now a Border Collie. When installed proffessionally (which I had done) the dog cannot jump over, dig under or get within the length of it's body near the fence which prevents them from even getting a chance at climbing as they can't touch the boundary fence. My Border Collie only escaped once straight out the front gate when I left it open for a moment, and that happened becuase I failed to adjust the level as he grew. That was quickly fixed...I have had him for 15 mths (he is 20 mths old) and no escapes or attempted escapes. I am able to open the front gate and drive my car in without fear of him darting out. I also bought an indoor wireless version to section him off from the kitchen and my bedroom as that now is the cats area. They are worth every $ that's spent and I feel very reassured that my boy is safe. I recommend that you contact www.hiddenfence.com.au ... they are wonderful people and I believe have the best product in terms of hidden fences. They will come and look at your yard/property, meet your dog/dogs and discuss all details. The dog learns the boundaries very quickly when instructed and it doesn't inhibit their ability to be active in the yard (i.e.) chase a ball. My boy is not at all frightened of it and has never been accidentally zapped whilst playing (as he now instinctively knows the boundaries). At night the collar comes off and he sleeps in his crate. When he goes outside (even for a quick wee at night) the collar goes on also becuase the cats learnt quickly that they have a 1.5 mtr (approx) safe zone around the perimeter of the yard that my boy can't enter. My children have held the collar and walked through the boundaries and been zapped as they wanted to know what it would feel like for Jed...they described as a static shock (something like when you touch your car handle)and were happy to play around with it and this reassured them immensely that Jed would not be physically hurt, just perhaps his pride.

By the way my front fence is about 1.5 mtrs high and my 3 side fences are all 4ft paling fences. You can imagine a Pointer soaring these fences effortlessly and a border not too far behind with escape techniques. So it's definately the Hidden Fence that have kept my doggies in.

Edited December 10, 2011 by shyfig

[Gayle.]

Well, an update on our escape artist. He treated us to a spectacle last night.....the little bugger scaled a 170 cm high gate with NO problem whatsoever. It's the same gate we saw him climbing once before......it's made of pickets and has tubular cross-bracing on the inside. He was jumping up and using the cross-bracing for footholds and climbing over like a cat, so my husband nailed planks to the inside to cover the bracing and so he had no footholds.

But it appears that's no deterrent as last night we were cleaning up the kitchen and I saw a flash of white out of the corner of my eye, heard a bit of a rattle.....and then realised he was gone. He just jumped it.

Our neighbour came running over saying "Did you see that? Did you? Did you???? I've never seen a dog do THAT!!!!"

He was over the road in an area of bushland and came back happily when we called him. He has now cemented his position as the number one indoor dog on Main Street. A 170 cm gate posed no problem, we have 3/4 acre of fencing that's not much higher than that. I don't suppose that will be any obstacle to his wandering either.

[Trisven13]

Might be time to look at the invisible fences Gayle

[kiesha09]

If he's happy inside during the day and is safe, if it were me I would just accept defeat and keep him inside

It's better to be safe than sorry and who knows what ingenious ways he may create to go wondering.

[Gayle.]

If he's happy inside during the day and is safe, if it were me I would just accept defeat and keep him inside

It's better to be safe than sorry and who knows what ingenious ways he may create to go wondering.

That's been the discussion here today. He and Dusty have been inside now for the past week, while we're at work and they both love it. And they're both very good.......aside from my husband forgetting to empty the rubbish today and leaving it in their reach. They sorted and cleaned it, but they apparently left it in a neat pile.

I do have to teach my husband to sweep the floors better though, they leave a LOT of hair on the floor.

[kiesha09]

Oops sorry I didn't read too far back on todays comments

[PuddleDuck]

My first dog was a serial escapee. The general consensus was that he did it cos he could-he used to eat (yes eat) through the colourbond fence at the kennels, climb through and spend the whole day sitting on the other side when we went away.

He used to get out of our yard every day and sit at the end of the drive. One day the ranger came past and collected him. Bozo thought it was great and made sure he was sitting at the end of our drive at the same time the next day to be collected. And the day after that. And the day after that...

Fortunately the ranger was lovely and in the end started collecting him from the end of the drive each morning and taking him for a spin all day, then dropped him home to us on his way home. Bozo loved him. So did my parents

[Dame Aussie]

If he's happy inside during the day and is safe, if it were me I would just accept defeat and keep him inside

It's better to be safe than sorry and who knows what ingenious ways he may create to go wondering.

That's been the discussion here today. He and Dusty have been inside now for the past week, while we're at work and they both love it. And they're both very good.......aside from my husband forgetting to empty the rubbish today and leaving it in their reach. They sorted and cleaned it, but they apparently left it in a neat pile.

I do have to teach my husband to sweep the floors better though, they leave a LOT of hair on the floor.

I'd do the same Gayle, Lili doesn't mind being inside during the day at all, if he seems happy I'd feel much more comfortable leaving him inside where I would know he's safe.