redial Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 My keyboard is officially in need of rehoming.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 So - it all started when your sibe was resource guarding the mastiffX then took control.. and now he is instigating the fights, and the sibe displays anxiety when he is around. Is that it in the condensed version? Exactly. And it seems that anxiety is misinterpreted by him OR he's a complete a**hole and seizes the opportunity to hurt her when she's at her most vunerable. But judging him by his behaviour previously with her, with other dogs and with us, I can't see that. But I have to consider it. Yes, you will unfortunately. How a dog is with people is usually no indication of how it will be with other dogs. It may be something that he would do with other dogs, if he was around them enough and the triggers came up. It doesn't sound like he would be a safe bet for rehoming, because I don't know how you could predict whether he would start to act like this again in future. Whether he is misinterpreting the anxiety and reacting to that or whether he is the instigator. It isn't his fault, he isn't an arsehole. But he might have a genetic tendency to behave this way and over time that might have been inadvertently reinforced. I think its commendable that you are getting help, many people don't. Good luck with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erinonthefarm Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Tough situation. Can you advertise them both to be rehomed? Maybe the right home for the right dog won't leave the decision of which dog up to you, if you want them both equally. A large cross breed adolescent versus a older dog would be a difficult choice anyway. I personally would try to manage both dogs but thats because I am home all day and able to rotate dogs out of crates/ outside, not really practical if you work, although I'm sure it can be done with perserverance. Either way, don't feel guilty if you have to rehome one of them, you are doing it for their welfare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The best thing to do is pick them both to be rehomed then whichever one you can't part with or have doubts about or feel horrible about rehoming more is the dog you keep. If training doesn't work of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I don't think it is responsible to consider rehoming either dog just yet. If one dog is anxious at the sight of the other, then separating the dogs might not work at all in a normal domestic home and may be too risky. This isn't just about which dog is harder to part with, this is about putting a dog up for rehoming that has serious behaviour problems. It's something which puts other people and animals at risk. It isn't the right thing to do. That's why I feel more needs to be done to understand why it's happening before either of the dogs are considered ok to rehome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Arab Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Ok just a quick thought and a few points 0. You don't necessarily need to get rid of your dog here!! 1. The fights are not causing damage to either dog (physically) so the fight to bite ratio is pretty low and both dogs may have good bite inhibition? This is a good thing and you can work on it. I am sure either dog could inflict serious injuries in one or two bites if it so desired. I am not saying it is ok but perhaps it's not as bad as you think. 2. If the fights stem from food aggression then is it possible to feed them separately (are they crate trained?). 3. What advice has your trainer given you about what other resources they may be guarding? Are you one of those resources? Can the way you interact with the dogs be setting them off? 4. Look for the early signs of it beginning and give the dogs something else to do. Hackles up lip licking, yawning = Call one dog over and ask it to sit, then call other dog over and ask it to sit when they are sitting quietly give them a treat. You sit = you get a treat. You continue the obnoxious behaviour you don't get a treat..... Make sense? I come when i am called and i sit then she throws a ball, or does a happy dance or something!!! This way with time the dog may realise there are better more fun things to do than growl at each other! Talk to your trainer about the options. 5. Can you separate them permanently? We have two dogs that have a kill on sight agreement (a bitch and a dog) when i discuss point one above both dogs have been to the vet more than once with lots of stitches required. These two lead perfectly happy lives in separate dog runs (given the both have other dogs for company) and are fed separately. So it is not a bad idea. Just a few thoughts to start your mind off explore a bit and you may come up with a few answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharna3 Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Thank you everyone - I do appreciate all the replies. I do take a little heart in the fact that there have been no serious injuries as with his size our Mastiff x could definitely inflict them if he was so minded. That said - its still not acceptable. We are already on top of watching their behaviour - resource guarding (yep we are a resource to them now too so we are working on that) - looking for body language ie flat ears, stiff tails, tongue flicks etc., all with the help of our behaviourist. They are fed separately, and were right from the first signs of a problem. I am hoping that the move is a big factor and that if we monitor them and manage them they will settle back down - it may seem I'm jumping the gun bringing up rehoming but its just something that I am thinking about as an option if it turns out it is the best thing for the dogs . Its not our plan right now. Our plan is to keep working with the dogs and our goal is for us to be a happy pack of four again :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxagirl Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Hi Sharna- Sorry I can;t reply in detail at the moment- I'm about to leave to pick my dog up from the vets Just wanted to say I have looked after your dogs at the kennels you use, and we havn't had any issues with them not getting along (that I'm aware of)- and they aren't even fussed about food etc. So it may be something about how they are relating to you as a pack? Dogs always act differently in a different environment when their owners are out of the picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 have you considered DAP diffusers... may assist in defusing the anxiety. New environment appears to have unsettled the pack order and there is a bit of a struggle going on. Try not to interpret the actions using human judgements..ie one of the dogs being an *hole or whatever they are merely being dogs. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharna3 Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Hi Sharna- Sorry I can;t reply in detail at the moment- I'm about to leave to pick my dog up from the vets Just wanted to say I have looked after your dogs at the kennels you use, and we havn't had any issues with them not getting along (that I'm aware of)- and they aren't even fussed about food etc. So it may be something about how they are relating to you as a pack? Dogs always act differently in a different environment when their owners are out of the picture Hi Boxagirl, That's very interesting ... I would love to isolate what the main cause of this is so I can work on it! Any other thoughts etc. you have would be welcome? have you considered DAP diffusers... may assist in defusing the anxiety. New environment appears to have unsettled the pack order and there is a bit of a struggle going on. Try not to interpret the actions using human judgements..ie one of the dogs being an *hole or whatever they are merely being dogs. H Yep - we had DAP collars on them and a diffuser when we first moved up and have just reordered collars (should be here tomorrow). I have no idea but maybe they were OK when we first moved because of the collars / diffuser. I'm willing to try anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Arab Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I'm willing to try anything! It is called being a responsible and caring dog owner, too few people are willing to do it and those that do are so rarely congratulated. I see the outcomes of irresponsibility almost daily so take a pat on the back for trying your hardest and caring about your fur kids "Good on you" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharna3 Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I'm willing to try anything! It is called being a responsible and caring dog owner, too few people are willing to do it and those that do are so rarely congratulated. I see the outcomes of irresponsibility almost daily so take a pat on the back for trying your hardest and caring about your fur kids "Good on you" Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Have either of your dogs been crate trained at all? Do you think they may take to a crate well? I have 2 girls here - a Lab and a Rotti cross - who have had a few fights where the Lab was definitely trying to kill the Rotti cross. I have one of them crated or confined to a room whenever the other is loose. Both dogs had never seen or been in a crate until just after the last fight about 18 months ago. They both had to have cage rest to let their wounds heal, and they coped brilliantly. Both of them get on with my other dog just fine, so there is always a playmate for the one that isn't confined. Not to mention that I also foster pups for rescue, so there is always something or someone for them to play with... lol! They are fine sniffing and licking each other through the crate too. They would most likely go a while just fine together and then something would trigger another fight - and quite frankly I don't need to have my dogs hurting each other, or the hefty vet bills two 30kg dogs can rack up when they try to kill each other. It's a total PITA to keep 2 dogs separated at all times, but we have gotten totally used to the routine, and it's second nature for us all now. The upside is that both dogs get equal one-on-one time with me - and they really love that part of it. I also feed all 3 dogs separately - in different rooms. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I find it quite alarming that a dog would fight with a bitch. It would be totally unacceptable to me for any male to act that way. To me it sounds like the young dog has major issues probably coming from you getting him at 6 weeks and missing out on learning pack manners at that age can never be undone. Sadly I don't think rehoming is an option here. Your girl has done nothing to warrant being rehomed but the male is a problem dog. If you are not able to separate them or resolve his issues I think you need to consider having him pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I agree with you dancinbcs. I realy hope you can work on the problem and figure out whats going on Sharna . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 The only fights we've had here have been between a dog and a bitch (both sterilized). Why is that so alarming?? Ours were almost all started by resource guarding. The solution was relatively easy for us, feed separately, no toys, crate or put in dog runs when we're not home. They're never left together unsupervised. We do have to micro manage our pack, but it is what it is :/ I hope you can sort things out with your two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharna3 Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 I find it quite alarming that a dog would fight with a bitch. It would be totally unacceptable to me for any male to act that way. To me it sounds like the young dog has major issues probably coming from you getting him at 6 weeks and missing out on learning pack manners at that age can never be undone. Sadly I don't think rehoming is an option here. Your girl has done nothing to warrant being rehomed but the male is a problem dog. If you are not able to separate them or resolve his issues I think you need to consider having him pts. I absolutely won't be getting him PTS. I have seen many issues between dogs and bitches. Its a little harsh for you to say he has 'major issues' when you have never met him , I do agree with you that him coming to us at 6 weeks was not a good thing but it was unavoidable and we have done the best we can in terms of socialising him, etc. He is a lovely dog 90% of the time, very relaxed, extremely obedient and we've never had an issue with him with other dogs. The bitch in this case is more of a resource guarder than the dog so on that basis, should I have her PTS?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharna3 Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Have either of your dogs been crate trained at all? Do you think they may take to a crate well? I have 2 girls here - a Lab and a Rotti cross - who have had a few fights where the Lab was definitely trying to kill the Rotti cross. I have one of them crated or confined to a room whenever the other is loose. Both dogs had never seen or been in a crate until just after the last fight about 18 months ago. They both had to have cage rest to let their wounds heal, and they coped brilliantly. Both of them get on with my other dog just fine, so there is always a playmate for the one that isn't confined. Not to mention that I also foster pups for rescue, so there is always something or someone for them to play with... lol! They are fine sniffing and licking each other through the crate too. They would most likely go a while just fine together and then something would trigger another fight - and quite frankly I don't need to have my dogs hurting each other, or the hefty vet bills two 30kg dogs can rack up when they try to kill each other. It's a total PITA to keep 2 dogs separated at all times, but we have gotten totally used to the routine, and it's second nature for us all now. The upside is that both dogs get equal one-on-one time with me - and they really love that part of it. I also feed all 3 dogs separately - in different rooms. T. Hi - both dogs are crate trained, yes. This was a great suggestion, thank you. We've crated them for various reasons previously but it hadn't been a thought to use this as a management method. We are just looking now for a crate big enough for the dog - as we live in a remote area we will have to buy online. Know anywhere good? Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Sharna3 what about trying a Thunder Shirt on the Sibe. As you live in the Bush you could try a makeshift one first. A firm teeshirt or rashy. http://www.thundershirt.com/lpc2/ If you are good at Youtube GSD'S 4Ever has some good clips of her dogs. Called Spirit, Tara and Mish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharna3 Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Sharna3 what about trying a Thunder Shirt on the Sibe. As you live in the Bush you could try a makeshift one first. A firm teeshirt or rashy. http://www.thundershirt.com/lpc2/ If you are good at Youtube GSD'S 4Ever has some good clips of her dogs. Called Spirit, Tara and Mish. Do you know if they post to Australia? I am willing to give it a go if I can get one - thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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