darlingdog Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Have either of your dogs been crate trained at all? Do you think they may take to a crate well? I have 2 girls here - a Lab and a Rotti cross - who have had a few fights where the Lab was definitely trying to kill the Rotti cross. I have one of them crated or confined to a room whenever the other is loose. Both dogs had never seen or been in a crate until just after the last fight about 18 months ago. They both had to have cage rest to let their wounds heal, and they coped brilliantly. Both of them get on with my other dog just fine, so there is always a playmate for the one that isn't confined. Not to mention that I also foster pups for rescue, so there is always something or someone for them to play with... lol! They are fine sniffing and licking each other through the crate too. They would most likely go a while just fine together and then something would trigger another fight - and quite frankly I don't need to have my dogs hurting each other, or the hefty vet bills two 30kg dogs can rack up when they try to kill each other. It's a total PITA to keep 2 dogs separated at all times, but we have gotten totally used to the routine, and it's second nature for us all now. The upside is that both dogs get equal one-on-one time with me - and they really love that part of it. I also feed all 3 dogs separately - in different rooms. T. Hi - both dogs are crate trained, yes. This was a great suggestion, thank you. We've crated them for various reasons previously but it hadn't been a thought to use this as a management method. We are just looking now for a crate big enough for the dog - as we live in a remote area we will have to buy online. Know anywhere good? Thanks again Hi Sharna, I'm no expert but just wanted to give you some hope...I have 3 boys who all get on relatively well...the odd grumble here and there but nothing that cannot be managed and all was well...UNTIL WE MOVED......Big problems within the first few weeks. Long story short...crates were used, new routines established and within a 4 month period they all settled down and life is once again sweet. Take heart, it may be that if you can manage them until they feel settled and secure again that things will settle. Best of luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheebs Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Hi Sharna, I'm no expert but just wanted to give you some hope...I have 3 boys who all get on relatively well...the odd grumble here and there but nothing that cannot be managed and all was well...UNTIL WE MOVED......Big problems within the first few weeks. Long story short...crates were used, new routines established and within a 4 month period they all settled down and life is once again sweet. Take heart, it may be that if you can manage them until they feel settled and secure again that things will settle. Best of luck to you. Exact same scenario here, except I was running 3 bitches together (which in hindsight was incredibly foolish ) I wouldn't give up hope yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharna3 Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Hi Sharna, I'm no expert but just wanted to give you some hope...I have 3 boys who all get on relatively well...the odd grumble here and there but nothing that cannot be managed and all was well...UNTIL WE MOVED......Big problems within the first few weeks. Long story short...crates were used, new routines established and within a 4 month period they all settled down and life is once again sweet. Take heart, it may be that if you can manage them until they feel settled and secure again that things will settle. Best of luck to you. Thank you - that's the outcome I am 'visualising', and hope it happens - very good to hear your POV because it gives me more hope! Exact same scenario here, except I was running 3 bitches together (which in hindsight was incredibly foolish ) I wouldn't give up hope yet Thanks Pheebs Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it? ? ? Appreciate the positivity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Arab Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I find it quite alarming that a dog would fight with a bitch. It would be totally unacceptable to me for any male to act that way. To me it sounds like the young dog has major issues probably coming from you getting him at 6 weeks and missing out on learning pack manners at that age can never be undone. Sadly I don't think rehoming is an option here. Your girl has done nothing to warrant being rehomed but the male is a problem dog. If you are not able to separate them or resolve his issues I think you need to consider having him pts. I don't know. The problem we have here is between a dog and a bitch. The bitch is very playful (Dane Cross) and the dog is a very dominant BC. The Dane started with bouncing on him and he told her where to get off. Then when the big resource (either of the humans in thew house) are present they would both disagree over our attention. Initially we physically separated them but they could see each other and fence fight. We now have a situation where if they are together there is much stiffness, pacing, eyeing etc. Either dog will start it and they are serious about the outcome. Both dogs have Good bite inhibition otherwise (which says they are serious with each other). We have increased the separation distance... The male is good with the other 2 bitches we have here (they crate and dog trailer together) and with the 2 male Aussies. I agree it is not ideal but we have found a way around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I find it quite alarming that a dog would fight with a bitch. It would be totally unacceptable to me for any male to act that way. To me it sounds like the young dog has major issues probably coming from you getting him at 6 weeks and missing out on learning pack manners at that age can never be undone. Sadly I don't think rehoming is an option here. Your girl has done nothing to warrant being rehomed but the male is a problem dog. If you are not able to separate them or resolve his issues I think you need to consider having him pts. I absolutely won't be getting him PTS. I have seen many issues between dogs and bitches. Its a little harsh for you to say he has 'major issues' when you have never met him , I do agree with you that him coming to us at 6 weeks was not a good thing but it was unavoidable and we have done the best we can in terms of socialising him, etc. He is a lovely dog 90% of the time, very relaxed, extremely obedient and we've never had an issue with him with other dogs. The bitch in this case is more of a resource guarder than the dog so on that basis, should I have her PTS?! I think out of all the problems a dog owner could have this one does sound pretty major. It is unusual to have a bitch living in fear of a dog. If you can't separate or solve the issues what choices do you have? To let them keep fighting will be very cruel and dangerous, and to rehome one would be unethical as it just passes the problem to another family. Nobody likes having to put a dog to sleep, but it's really not fair on your bitch to have to live in constant fear. Nobody is telling you to have the dog put to sleep without doing more to try to solve the issues first. If you cannot solve the issues, or keep them totally apart, then putting him to sleep is the responsible thing to do. You have come to the right forum to find people with plenty of experience in dog issues and with rehoming, but you do have to be prepared to accept that the advice we give might not be what you really want to do. I really wish you the best with this, everyone here would like to see things improve, nobody wants you to lose a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Have either of your dogs been crate trained at all? Do you think they may take to a crate well? I have 2 girls here - a Lab and a Rotti cross - who have had a few fights where the Lab was definitely trying to kill the Rotti cross. I have one of them crated or confined to a room whenever the other is loose. Both dogs had never seen or been in a crate until just after the last fight about 18 months ago. They both had to have cage rest to let their wounds heal, and they coped brilliantly. Both of them get on with my other dog just fine, so there is always a playmate for the one that isn't confined. Not to mention that I also foster pups for rescue, so there is always something or someone for them to play with... lol! They are fine sniffing and licking each other through the crate too. They would most likely go a while just fine together and then something would trigger another fight - and quite frankly I don't need to have my dogs hurting each other, or the hefty vet bills two 30kg dogs can rack up when they try to kill each other. It's a total PITA to keep 2 dogs separated at all times, but we have gotten totally used to the routine, and it's second nature for us all now. The upside is that both dogs get equal one-on-one time with me - and they really love that part of it. I also feed all 3 dogs separately - in different rooms. T. Hi - both dogs are crate trained, yes. This was a great suggestion, thank you. We've crated them for various reasons previously but it hadn't been a thought to use this as a management method. We are just looking now for a crate big enough for the dog - as we live in a remote area we will have to buy online. Know anywhere good? Thanks again Have a look at this site... http://shop.vebopet.com.au/store/xxlarge-48-collapsible-metal-pet-dog-cage-crate.html That's their large one... my Lab has a 42" one (next size down, and it could comfortably house 2 of her. I had a Dane cross foster boy in a 48" one not that long ago, and there was heaps of room for him in that. Vebopet crates are pretty sturdy too. Cheers, T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharna3 Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Have a look at this site... http://shop.vebopet.com.au/store/xxlarge-48-collapsible-metal-pet-dog-cage-crate.html That's their large one... my Lab has a 42" one (next size down, and it could comfortably house 2 of her. I had a Dane cross foster boy in a 48" one not that long ago, and there was heaps of room for him in that. Vebopet crates are pretty sturdy too. Cheers, T. Hey - I got a 48" crate from Pet Services in Melb. Its the size we used for flying him, so I've seen him in it and it leaves enough room for water or a toy - thank you :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharna3 Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 I think out of all the problems a dog owner could have this one does sound pretty major. It is unusual to have a bitch living in fear of a dog. If you can't separate or solve the issues what choices do you have? To let them keep fighting will be very cruel and dangerous, and to rehome one would be unethical as it just passes the problem to another family. Nobody likes having to put a dog to sleep, but it's really not fair on your bitch to have to live in constant fear. Nobody is telling you to have the dog put to sleep without doing more to try to solve the issues first. If you cannot solve the issues, or keep them totally apart, then putting him to sleep is the responsible thing to do. You have come to the right forum to find people with plenty of experience in dog issues and with rehoming, but you do have to be prepared to accept that the advice we give might not be what you really want to do. I really wish you the best with this, everyone here would like to see things improve, nobody wants you to lose a dog. I do accept that its a big problem for sure. And I definitely put up the OP because I value the DOL community and have often gotten good advice and even just gems of information. I would not rehome the Mastiff because of a variety of reasons (breed, size, allergies) aside from any behavioural issues. The Siberian, though older, is much more likely to be successfully rehomed if that was the absolute last resort - because I too do not want her to live her days constantly on guard. But we will try everything else first. I can appreciate that I will hear things that are not "what I want to hear", it just seemed that that comment was quite uninformed and harsh; but I hear what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minxy Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 http://www.topbuy.com.au/tbcart/pc/Carries-and-Houses-c161.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Sharna3 what about trying a Thunder Shirt on the Sibe. As you live in the Bush you could try a makeshift one first. A firm teeshirt or rashy. http://www.thundershirt.com/lpc2/ If you are good at Youtube GSD'S 4Ever has some good clips of her dogs. Called Spirit, Tara and Mish. Do you know if they post to Australia? I am willing to give it a go if I can get one - thanks! There is an Australian supplier. They are in WA I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Arab Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I know our vet sells them and I have seen them at a few dog shows and sporting events so they are definitely around. I know a few people having some amazing results with them, especially on dogs that are fearful of storms and fireworks. Sharna3 what about trying a Thunder Shirt on the Sibe. As you live in the Bush you could try a makeshift one first. A firm teeshirt or rashy. http://www.thundershirt.com/lpc2/ If you are good at Youtube GSD'S 4Ever has some good clips of her dogs. Called Spirit, Tara and Mish. Do you know if they post to Australia? I am willing to give it a go if I can get one - thanks! There is an Australian supplier. They are in WA I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kustali Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 My two Mastiffs started fighting over food, male and female. The female older and more dominant would go for the younger male over food at feed time. As he matured he became on edge and it got to a stage where he would race over to her just to have a go at her! I spent alot of time watching them and their behaviour towards each other, especially at feed time, any signs of them wanting to fight (the looks, stiffening up, walking around slowly stalking) and i'd step in and give them a good telling off. Once he'd said his piece and i'd intervened a few times the tables turned and the bitch became less dominant, they both know where they stand now with each other and if anyone trys to start anything they know i'll be right there to give them what for. I don't leave any toys or bones or anything out they can fight over, but i can feed them a few feet apart now and not have to worry too much which is great. Their pup which is 20 or so months i am doing the same thing with, she's learning. She gets fed in a seperate area to save any tiffs from happening but they all run together quite fine the rest of the time, i couldn't have them all seperated day in day out. But if i didn't manage it i would have had to, they are big dogs and the fights can be nasty but mine have all been talk and a fight for dominance in the pack. They have an understanding of each other at the moment and know i am boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I find it quite alarming that a dog would fight with a bitch. It would be totally unacceptable to me for any male to act that way. To me it sounds like the young dog has major issues probably coming from you getting him at 6 weeks and missing out on learning pack manners at that age can never be undone. Sadly I don't think rehoming is an option here. Your girl has done nothing to warrant being rehomed but the male is a problem dog. If you are not able to separate them or resolve his issues I think you need to consider having him pts. I don't know. The problem we have here is between a dog and a bitch. The bitch is very playful (Dane Cross) and the dog is a very dominant BC. The Dane started with bouncing on him and he told her where to get off. Then when the big resource (either of the humans in thew house) are present they would both disagree over our attention. Initially we physically separated them but they could see each other and fence fight. We now have a situation where if they are together there is much stiffness, pacing, eyeing etc. Either dog will start it and they are serious about the outcome. Both dogs have Good bite inhibition otherwise (which says they are serious with each other). We have increased the separation distance... The male is good with the other 2 bitches we have here (they crate and dog trailer together) and with the 2 male Aussies. I agree it is not ideal but we have found a way around it. My experience is with entire BCs and I would not tolerate a BC male that would fight with a bitch. It is as unacceptable as an adult attacking a puppy in my book. In my experience the males always back down if challenged by a bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineX Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I have irish terriers - but the male (duke) is definately the more dominant dog. and quite happy to put holes in Kate to prove it. Along with learning about reactivity etc etc, I have learnt a lot about living with dog dominant dogs. I think we've been lucky duke doesnt feel the need to show every dog he meets that he is dominant these days, but it only takes two eyeblinks for things to get out of control. (we've moved in with mum, and trying to explain why you don't feed the dogs if you don't crate one of them - she's still in shock at how fast duke gets aggressive in the presence of food) to the OP - what about trying a couple of dap collars? (now called adaptil collars). Like dap diffusers, only set off by the dogs body heat. It may help keep things calmer while order gets re-established. Online is the quickest way (and cheapest) to get hold of them. While they don't work for every dog in every situation, I think acute stress and anxiety could well be the situation they work best in. Good luck. ChristineX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharna3 Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) My experience is with entire BCs and I would not tolerate a BC male that would fight with a bitch. It is as unacceptable as an adult attacking a puppy in my book. In my experience the males always back down if challenged by a bitch. I would assume we could expect different behaviour from two sterilized dogs though? (obviously, you'd hope not this behaviour, but what I mean is I wouldn't compare the two eg entire vs sterilized?) Edited December 9, 2011 by Sharna3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharna3 Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 I have irish terriers - but the male (duke) is definately the more dominant dog. and quite happy to put holes in Kate to prove it. Along with learning about reactivity etc etc, I have learnt a lot about living with dog dominant dogs. I think we've been lucky duke doesnt feel the need to show every dog he meets that he is dominant these days, but it only takes two eyeblinks for things to get out of control. (we've moved in with mum, and trying to explain why you don't feed the dogs if you don't crate one of them - she's still in shock at how fast duke gets aggressive in the presence of food) to the OP - what about trying a couple of dap collars? (now called adaptil collars). Like dap diffusers, only set off by the dogs body heat. It may help keep things calmer while order gets re-established. Online is the quickest way (and cheapest) to get hold of them. While they don't work for every dog in every situation, I think acute stress and anxiety could well be the situation they work best in. Good luck. ChristineX Hey Christine, We have two collars on order, supposed to arrive today but didn't, hopefully tomorrow. We had them both wearing dap collars when we moved, plus a diffuser, but they "ran out", and fights started soon after. So we are getting new ones. Hopefully it helps! And yep, got them online for $47, as opposed to the vets $90!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 My 2 girls are desexed - doesn't make that big a difference if it's learned behaviour, or the dogs simply don't like sharing with each other. Every fight they've had was when I was around, so it appears that I may be the catalyst. Simply easier and safer to keep them separated for me - and it didn't take long to establish a routine that we are all comfortable with. Knowing what both of my girls are capable of with regards to this behaviour means that I feel it would be irresponsible to rehome either of them - so we HAD to make the separation thing work - the alternative solution was to have one or both pts, which wasn't an option I wished to explore at all. My girls would get along just fine for months at a time, then out of the blue and over seemingly nothing, they would decide that they just had to kill each other. Each time there was a different trigger, so it's hard to predict what may set them off. Separation at all times is not that hard to learn to cope with really - especially when the other options aren't ideal. I couldn't live on edge wondering if today will be the day they decide to have another fight. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 GSD's 4Ever states that that is her name on Youtube and http://www.petsprovidore.com.au/ is who sells them in Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineX Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Hi Sharna3 :D Your vet has better prices than mine! I got charged over a hundred dollars for the diffuser (got my brother to go online for the collar). It does sound as though the dap was keeping things together, if trouble started after they ran out. Here's hoping peace comes back to your household Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharna3 Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 GSD's 4Ever states that that is her name on Youtube and http://www.petsprovidore.com.au/ is who sells them in Australia. I can't find her :-( Will keep looking though. Hi Sharna3 :D Your vet has better prices than mine! I got charged over a hundred dollars for the diffuser (got my brother to go online for the collar). It does sound as though the dap was keeping things together, if trouble started after they ran out. Here's hoping peace comes back to your household Sooo pricey, especially considering in the UK the collars are about 20 pounds - $AUD30 and the diffuser about $AUD40!! such a rip off. Thank god for ebay. If you ever need more, just look there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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