Wkc Vs Ankc Kelpies

[Kavik]

Kavik, where are you looking to get your nest Kelpie from?

Currently liking these guys

http://www.barruworkingkelpies.com/Barru_Working_Kelpies/Barru_Working_Kelpies.html

The breeder was easy to talk to and keen to talk about his dogs and helpful when I said I was after a dog for agility. Haven't seen any of his dogs in person yet though - hoping to get a chance to see them next year some time.

[aussielover]

None of the working kelpies I have seen on real working farms have been hyperactive or psycho.

They are focussed and hard working but when not working most of them are very calm, stay out of the way and are generally just good dogs.

Some are tied up / sedentary for days before it's their turn to work and they seem to have no obvious undesirable or behavioral problems.

Most farmers also said that the really hyper dogs don't actually make good working dogs as they waste energy and can't be in the right spot at the right time.

So I wouldn't see getting a working bred kelpie for a competition dog as a problem so long as you give it a job to do and get a well bred one from good lines.

To say all the working instinct has been bred out of show kelpies is pretty dramatic.

[Tay.]

I wouldn't assume that the lazy stocky kelpies are all ankc ;)

Oh no, that's not what I meant. I've seen some very chunky working Kelpies too.

Wow, not many people switch teams to come in this direction

Uh-oh, should I be worried?

[redial]

My working kelpie pup is the calmest pup I've ever had, he is highly interested in working but when he's not playing with the ducks he's laying around in the sun. he's also super serious and not a very playful puppy, he's all work and no play haha

[Jumabaar]

Wow, not many people switch teams to come in this direction

Uh-oh, should I be worried?

It means your one of the smart ones!!

[sheena]

I don't think it's right to say that all show Kelpies have had the working ability bred out of them but I do think it needs to be acknowledged that while many show Kelpies still have the herding 'instinct' and are very talented in recretional herding - their 'sole purpose', though is no longer the same as the working line Kelpie which is technically to work sheep. Even Callicoma which is known to breed excellent drivey dogs which do very well in dog sports says:

Callicoma kelpies are not bred specifically to work. If you want a dog that will work hard, all day, every day, you should look to a kennel that breeds working type kelpies. However Callicoma kelpies are handy dogs to have around the farm, such as on a small holding or hobby farm. A number are also successfully competing in sheep trials and have gained titles.

i.e. they don't try to hold out that their dogs will be suitable as 'professional' working dogs. It really depends what you want the dog for. An owner of a Callicoma dog at our dog club said that he got a bench Kelpie because he thought that it would be calmer than a working line dog and was afraid that a working line dog would be too crazy for the suburbs. In the end, he found himself with a dog that was crazy about sheep and probably just as energetic as a working line dog. Similarly, all good WKC breeders will tell you that a well-bred working Kelpie has an offswitch and is just as happy chilling out as it is working sheep.

You will find good and bad dogs in both lines and if you want an agility/obedience/flyball/recreational herding/pet dog you can get excellent dogs from both lines. You will also get chunky monkeys in both lines. You'll get more choice of colouring in the working lines, though. In the working lines, colouring is irrelevant and appearance is irrelevant except to the extent that it impedes working ability.

Callicoma Kelpies are georgous & very versatile & have lovely temperaments. If ever I was to switch breeds...that's where I would go

[kelpiechick]

DSO, one thing that I would do before I decided on a breeder would be to actually talk to people who own kelpies from particular studs - whether working or show line and get their personal experience in regard to what qualities you are looking for in a dog.

One thing I found when I was initially looking for a kelpie was that there is some 'bad blood' between a couple of the well known studs where one of them has passed on all sorts of rumours about the temperaments of particular lines from a couple of other breeders ..... not necessarily true, so don't listen to gossip and ask those who actually have owned those kelpies instead.

I have made the opposite 'change' to you - after running 2 kelpies in agility (and still do) I have added a BC to the mix (we began trialling part way through this year) and there is a world of difference in both training and running the 2 breeds. I am not advocating that one is any better than the other (yet, LOL) but just different. I intend to stick to owning both breeds as I believe it has made me a better trainer... certainly forced me to move outside my comfort zone and think about doing things in different ways.

If looking for an agility prospect it might be worthwhile looking at a couple of the working WA lines as well.

[Perry's Mum]

You could also think about a Koolie for agility as well - there are some doing really well in it both here and in New Zealand.

[Bullbreedlover]

So the WKC doesnt actually have a written "standard" as such. Interesting.

[Kavik]

So the WKC doesnt actually have a written "standard" as such. Interesting.

Here you go

http://www.wkc.org.au/Characteristics.php

[Kavik]

DSO, one thing that I would do before I decided on a breeder would be to actually talk to people who own kelpies from particular studs - whether working or show line and get their personal experience in regard to what qualities you are looking for in a dog.

One thing I found when I was initially looking for a kelpie was that there is some 'bad blood' between a couple of the well known studs where one of them has passed on all sorts of rumours about the temperaments of particular lines from a couple of other breeders ..... not necessarily true, so don't listen to gossip and ask those who actually have owned those kelpies instead.

I have made the opposite 'change' to you - after running 2 kelpies in agility (and still do) I have added a BC to the mix (we began trialling part way through this year) and there is a world of difference in both training and running the 2 breeds. I am not advocating that one is any better than the other (yet, LOL) but just different. I intend to stick to owning both breeds as I believe it has made me a better trainer... certainly forced me to move outside my comfort zone and think about doing things in different ways.

If looking for an agility prospect it might be worthwhile looking at a couple of the working WA lines as well.

How are you finding that they are different?

[Bullbreedlover]

So the WKC doesnt actually have a written "standard" as such. Interesting.

Here you go

http://www.wkc.org.au/Characteristics.php

Thanks I was obviously looking in the wrong place.

[SLF]

This is an interesting topic.

I have WKC kelpies, that work stock. One of which I use to do obedience and basic agility (not at competition level yet). I can understand the opinion that WKC kelpies are more 'instinct' focused, and ANKC are less so. However I dont think you can entirely breed out instinct.

My own dog, who is still only young at just 12mths, has more instinct than she knows what to do with. I find that working her off farm helps keep her sound in mind. Hence the move towards agility aswell.

[jr_inoz]

Ringbarka Kelpies - An ANKC registered breeder here in South Australia has kelpies that do well in the ring and also work stock well (all day too). It is always lovely to watch her dogs work stock when we go for lessons...

Also do your research ontheline and ask about bite and bark as some kelpies have that bred into them especially in the WKC, as good bite and bark are necessary for some working lines. Bark and bite can be a problem if not given a proper outlet so i'd stay away from those lines. But you can ask the breeder, they're normally proud of a dog with good bite and bark and will be happy to let you know. Good eye means that he has the ability to stare down a sheep, this takes focus, so good eye normally means a dog that's harder to refocus, but this can vary.

A bit off topic - but my little sheltie has "good eye" and can stare down sheep. (I'd add a photo to show it, but it is too far off topic for this thread...). She has great instinct, and if I knew what I was doing, she'd be further advanced. Not all ANKC lines of working dogs have had the instinct bred out. My girl is definite testament to that.

[Jumabaar]

DSO, one thing that I would do before I decided on a breeder would be to actually talk to people who own kelpies from particular studs - whether working or show line and get their personal experience in regard to what qualities you are looking for in a dog.

One thing I found when I was initially looking for a kelpie was that there is some 'bad blood' between a couple of the well known studs where one of them has passed on all sorts of rumours about the temperaments of particular lines from a couple of other breeders ..... not necessarily true, so don't listen to gossip and ask those who actually have owned those kelpies instead.

I have made the opposite 'change' to you - after running 2 kelpies in agility (and still do) I have added a BC to the mix (we began trialling part way through this year) and there is a world of difference in both training and running the 2 breeds. I am not advocating that one is any better than the other (yet, LOL) but just different. I intend to stick to owning both breeds as I believe it has made me a better trainer... certainly forced me to move outside my comfort zone and think about doing things in different ways.

If looking for an agility prospect it might be worthwhile looking at a couple of the working WA lines as well.

I think this is also pretty much the case between all the trouble between ANKC and WKC kelpies. A few breeders decided they disliked each other, started spreading rumours and they managed to get cemented in stone.

[german_shep_fan]

I live on the land and work on a station out west and have always owned WKC kelpies. A farmer told me the other day that the ANKC reg kelpies have all had their natural herding ability bred out and they are bred for looks and temp not drive. Is this true?

I love Kelpies but really don't know anything at all abt the differences b/t the WKC and the ANKC Kelpies. I was thinking though, maybe the person you spoke to is used to having working Kelpies that can do the work required on the farm whereas the ANKC Kelpies, whilst being able to herd ect just don't have the same amount of drive or stamina that the WKC do? Not sure if that even makes sense, but i was thinking maybe that is what he meant by natural hearding ability? idk lol

[redial]

All the farmers around here don't really like the ANKC, I've heard that they're the pretty city cousins and a rip off of the real kelpie etc... I think they're nice dogs (I've met a few), never put them on sheep though. That's why I thought I'd ask, as views seem to be one sided around here

[german_shep_fan]

All the farmers around here don't really like the ANKC, I've heard that they're the pretty city cousins and a rip off of the real kelpie etc... I think they're nice dogs (I've met a few), never put them on sheep though. That's why I thought I'd ask, as views seem to be one sided around here

I can see that lol i guess you can't having working Kelpies living in the city, poor things would go bonkers without the proper excerise and mental stimulation they need.

[redial]

My mum lived in the city for 16 years when she was younger, she lived in the bush before that and had acquired a red kelpie working pup from a local farmer, she said the dog was the laziest apartment dog she'd ever met, it hardly ever got walked and it would just happily hang out in the apartment all day. She said she was a lovely dog. I'm thinking that it's truly down to breeding, training and the individual dog... I seriously need to do some research haha (new project yay)

[Jumabaar]

Little bubba Izzy who is only two weeks into her Training In Drive