First Time Taking My Gr To A Park

[Weasels]

Yep Wuffles I wasn't suggesting these events were good things, just that it's inevitable that things will occur which will upset our dogs. The best we can do is try to help our little friends get through them

[huski]

I just checked the restrictions for that area of the park we were in, that owner should of had the dog on lead..

Next time this happens who do I call? as I intend on having her on the long leash until I get perfect long distance recall...

Dogs are living things and therefor have their own minds and therefor no dog will ever have a perfect recall.

Wouldn't that depend on what you consider a perfect recall? If my dog recalls every time on the first command within two seconds of me giving the recall command, under any level of distraction I can proof for, I would consider that pretty perfect.

[Rileys mum]

Dogs can and should have a perfect recall....problem is, it takes alot of training and proofing and work on the owners part and many cant be bothered and go down the 'well other dogs should be used to and ok with my strange dog rushing them anyway' mentality.

If im at the park with my dog on leash and another dog rushes him its not ok. i have no issue in the world with another dog approaching my dog as long as the owner is in control of it either on leash or off leash with a solid recal and asks my permission. I think its irresponsible to think that the dog being rushed (in an over exuberant playful way) should just get over it and deal with it. All the socialisation in the world doest mean the dog is ok with being rushed at, regardless of its age. Luckily where i live i have not enountered a dog off leash that has rushed my dogs. All dogs ive ever seen have had fantastic recalls and return to their owners the minute we are spotted. Thumbs up to these fantastic owners and well trained dogs if you ask me. I always feel safe and know my dogs can have a walk without dealing with rude dogs invading their space.

to the OP: Just another thing to think of too, in SA long lines are not considered leashes. There is legislation here that states it must be 2m or less long (if memory serves me correctly). Just something to look into. I personally think you are doing a great thing by keeping the long line on and working on your recall but just keep in mind legislation may not support you using it.

[Mason_Gibbs]

I just checked the restrictions for that area of the park we were in, that owner should of had the dog on lead..

Next time this happens who do I call? as I intend on having her on the long leash until I get perfect long distance recall...

Dogs are living things and therefor have their own minds and therefor no dog will ever have a perfect recall.

Wouldn't that depend on what you consider a perfect recall? If my dog recalls every time on the first command within two seconds of me giving the recall command, under any level of distraction I can proof for, I would consider that pretty perfect.

Ok Huski your dogs are perfect. My mason is nearly perfect he even has obedience titles but as he is a dog and can disobey me at will ( like if he catches a wiff of dead fish) he will go look before returning to me. No dog is 100 % perfect imo there will be something they find tempting or interesting.

[huski]

Ok Huski your dogs are perfect. My mason is nearly perfect he even has obedience titles but as he is a dog and can disobey me at will ( like if he catches a wiff of dead fish) he will go look before returning to me. No dog is 100 % perfect imo there will be something they find tempting or interesting.

I wasn't talking about any dog specifically, I'm just saying, what is the criteria for the perfect recall? IMO you can have perfect recall. My criteria with recall is what I said before (coming the first time every time within two seconds of me giving the command) so that's what we train for.

[Weasels]

Wouldn't that depend on what you consider a perfect recall? If my dog recalls every time on the first command within two seconds of me giving the recall command, under any level of distraction I can proof for, I would consider that pretty perfect.

Dogs can and should have a perfect recall....problem is, it takes alot of training and proofing and work on the owners part and many cant be bothered and go down the 'well other dogs should be used to and ok with my strange dog rushing them anyway' mentality.

I wonder though if perfect recall is really within the capacity of the average dog owner. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe Huski is a very competent professional dog trainer. I don't think it is just a matter of laziness on the part of dog owners - from talking to people, many just can't figure out how to get a dog to recall under distaction, especially since "he's very obedient in the house".

I'm pretty sure teenage dogs and certain breeds create a much greater recall challenge than others too. I need to repeat a recall on my girl several times if she has dropped a ball in front of a stranger for a game, because she does it so nicely they almost always throw it for her! It's hard to undo that good a reward history, but the point is she therefore doesn't have perfect recall. She is still one of the most reliable dogs I know off-lead and doesn't cause any trouble.

I was listening to Ian Dunbar on a podcast recently saying he didn't believe in perfect recall, since sometimes the dog just doesn't register what you've said the first time if it is concentrating hard on something else. I know that happens to me with my husband, and I have a much bigger brain than a dog (or so they tell me).

[aussielover]

Ok Huski your dogs are perfect. My mason is nearly perfect he even has obedience titles but as he is a dog and can disobey me at will ( like if he catches a wiff of dead fish) he will go look before returning to me. No dog is 100 % perfect imo there will be something they find tempting or interesting.

I wasn't talking about any dog specifically, I'm just saying, what is the criteria for the perfect recall? IMO you can have perfect recall. My criteria with recall is what I said before (coming the first time every time within two seconds of me giving the command) so that's what we train for.

You can, but you'd have to agree that it is hard work!

Do you think a dog can still have perfect recall when it feels/ reacts fearfully? Obviously i would be ideal to recall it before the fear kicked in, but do you think that a well trained dog will recall even if it is very scared?

[huski]

I wonder though if perfect recall is really within the capacity of the average dog owner. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe Huski is a very competent professional dog trainer. I don't think it is just a matter of laziness on the part of dog owners - from talking to people, many just can't figure out how to get a dog to recall under distaction, especially since "he's very obedient in the house".

I'm pretty sure teenage dogs and certain breeds create a much greater recall challenge than others too. I need to repeat a recall on my girl several times if she has dropped a ball in front of a stranger for a game, because she does it so nicely they almost always throw it for her! It's hard to undo that good a reward history, but the point is she therefore doesn't have perfect recall. She is still one of the most reliable dogs I know off-lead and doesn't cause any trouble.

I was listening to Ian Dunbar on a podcast recently saying he didn't believe in perfect recall, since sometimes the dog just doesn't register what you've said the first time if it is concentrating hard on something else. I know that happens to me with my husband, and I have a much bigger brain than a dog (or so they tell me).

LOL Weasels, I am definitely not a dog trainer, it's just a hobby for me (though I do work for a dog trainer). I agree the average owner won't have the knowledge on how to train a reliable recall, though I think if they are given the knowledge on how to do it and are interested in training it, it would be achievable.

I had that problem with my beagle, when we were training her recall was impeccable but if I had her off leash and she really got stuck on a scent she literally would not hear my calling her. Her recall was still ok, but not good enough (IMO). Now we've focused on overcoming that issue specifically in training, her recall is far more reliable.

You can, but you'd have to agree that it is hard work!

Do you think a dog can still have perfect recall when it feels/ reacts fearfully? Obviously i would be ideal to recall it before the fear kicked in, but do you think that a well trained dog will recall even if it is very scared?

If I had a fearful dog I'd be addressing the fear issues specifically first, but I do believe that any dog can have a reliable recall.

Edited December 3, 2011 by huski

[Weasels]

LOL Weasels, I am definitely not a dog trainer, it's just a hobby for me (though I do work for a dog trainer). I agree the average owner won't have the knowledge on how to train a reliable recall, though I think if they are given the knowledge on how to do it and are interested in training it, it would be achievable.

I had that problem with my beagle, when we were training her recall was impeccable but if I had her off leash and she really got stuck on a scent she literally would not hear my calling her. Her recall was still ok, but not good enough (IMO). Now we've focused on overcoming that issue specifically in training, her recall far more reliable.

Oh sorry Huski I'm not sure where I got that from I must have seen you mention your employer and just assumed. I'll just go with "very competent dog handler" then :p

And beagles would definitely be a breed I would expect to have imperfect recall without a HUGE amount of work. In top sheepdogs (and our little hobbyists too) the handler often has to repeat commands, because the dogs are working so much on instinct to make those split-second decisions when the stock go astray. It's bred into them too, so it makes life challenging even away from stock! We just have to take it with a grain of salt when 99% of trainers are telling us to never repeat a command.

[huski]

Oh sorry Huski I'm not sure where I got that from I must have seen you mention your employer and just assumed. I'll just go with "very competent dog handler" then :p

And beagles would definitely be a breed I would expect to have imperfect recall without a HUGE amount of work. In top sheepdogs (and our little hobbyists too) the handler often has to repeat commands, because the dogs are working so much on instinct to make those split-second decisions when the stock go astray. It's bred into them too, so it makes life challenging even away from stock! We just have to take it with a grain of salt when 99% of trainers are telling us to never repeat a command.

LOL I'm not even sure about competent handler :laugh:

My beagle was never ever reliable off leash, but when we started doing lots of training she improved heaps and without any work on her recall at all, her reliability off leash became very high. I never really did any work on her recall outside of training it as an exercise for obedience. But I wanted that last bit of reliability so that's why we started focusing on her recall outside of training.

I have no experience with sheep dogs, but I know with my dog, her reliability with working off leash and around distractions improved when we did a lot of drive work so she learnt how to respond to commands when she was highly aroused (i.e. scenting) and distracted.

Edited December 3, 2011 by huski

[corrie]

Your dog did not run because it was a staffy - your dog ran because it had not encountered an off lead dog running towards it before.

I agree, goldies are usually not that fearful as well so you may want to look into getting help with that.

I would think that it would be fairly normal for puppies to be scared by off leash dogs approaching them. My dogs are well socialised, but off leash dogs approaching them still often make them nervous.

particularly when being approached by an out of control dog.

To the OP....Have a look at the pinned topics in the puppy section. Worthwhile reading on socialisation and fear periods etc.

[cornell]

There is not much that you can do in this situation except head towards the owner immediately. Do not wait for them to come and get their dog because they won't.

Personally I would avoid this kind of park. Minamise the stress for your pup and yourself. It only takes one out of control aggressive dog to spoil things. Walk at quiet times. We go to dog parks when there are no dogs. Meet up with friends who have trustworthy dogs, join a puppy class or the GR association for fun meeting days.

Just quietly I think that it won't be long until it is your pup that will want to rush up to others dogs and people and shower them with love and affection so the others do bring up a worthy point. Work on your recall as often as possible. ;D