Service Certificate

[Mille]

At what stage should the stud dog owner provide the bitch owner with a signed service certificate?

[SwaY]

Do you mean litter registration form?

In VIC ruling is at the time of mating.

However it's between the parties involved I feel.

Edited December 2, 2011 by SwaY

[Parkeyre]

At the same time the stud fee is paid?

[Mille]

Thank you for replying. I mean the Application for Registration of Litter & Stud Service Certificate (Qld). My bitch was mated only recently however the stud dog owner has not replied to requests for a signed service certificate.

[Mille]

At the same time the stud fee is paid?

It is a pick of litter arrangement with pick to the stud dog owner at his request. He does not want a stud fee (already offered). Thanks for your input.

[Parkeyre]

Does the service certificate state a time frame?

[Mille]

Does the service certificate state a time frame?

No official time frame printed on the form. Are there reasons a stud dog owner might delay signing a service certificate?

[Parkeyre]

Maybe he would like to wait untill the pregnancy is confirmed, or the puppies are born?

[Mille]

Maybe he would like to wait untill the pregnancy is confirmed, or the puppies are born?

Thanks Parkeyre,

Yes I can see it could suit a stud dog owner to wait and see. I would feel more secure as bitch owner to be offered a signed certificate up front or at least given a reason why not.

[Sandra777]

What does your stud contract with the stud dog owner say? Me, I wouldn't be signing a stud form for anyone until I received my stud fee and I don't care what the ANKC may have to say about it However with a pup-in-lieu-of-fee arrangement you NEED everything to be in writing. What happens if there is only one pup is just the first problem. This written agreement should include a clear statement about when you receive the signed form.

[Mille]

What does your stud contract with the stud dog owner say? Me, I wouldn't be signing a stud form for anyone until I received my stud fee and I don't care what the ANKC may have to say about it However with a pup-in-lieu-of-fee arrangement you NEED everything to be in writing. What happens if there is only one pup is just the first problem. This written agreement should include a clear statement about when you receive the signed form.

As the saying goes: 'locking your doors only keeps the honest people out' .......with POL either show good faith or take the service fee, it is unethical to hold a bitch owner to ransom over the service certificate (especially when the stud dog owner instigated the deal).

[Steve]

Pay the money watch the sex , sign the form.If you want a litter pick pay for it . Lots can and does go wrong with power hungry stud dog owners and a lot can happen ebtween the mating and the puppy home time.

[Fordogs]

I have always received the service certificate when puppies are on the ground, stud fee paid, service certificate within a week, I have no problem with that.

I would not use a stud if the owner required a puppy back instead of a fee, pay fee and if stud owner wants a puppy they can buy one.

[Tapua]

Have used 5 stud dogs over the last 6 years - I always paid the owner on the day - watched the mating and recieved the service certificate on that day. The one occassion a stud owner wanted a pup from the mating she paid me for the pup at 8 weeks.

I also checked that if there were no pups for whatever reason there was a free return mating. Some stud dog owners offer a return free mating if 3 or less live pups are born.

The dog's job is to transfer semen into the bitch - IMO the owner of the dog has no say over the sales of the pups - as I have seen some stud dog owners do. ie; you can have this mating on the condition person X does not get a pup.

As the owner of the bitch I am buying sperm.

As the owner of a stud dog I have a right to refuse bitches if I dont consider them healthy in temperament or conformation.

Its pretty straight forward IMO.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Tapua

[Topoftheheap]

i thought that it always at to be signed at the date of the service. After all it does require you to sign and date the form. (At least it does in NSW) I would gather then that it legally would have to be on the date of the service. That's whats being verified, after all, the service.

It seems as though he is trying to hold the bitch's owner in sort of a hostage situation. After all without that certificate signed there's no way to verify that they are pedigree dogs. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

[Mille]

I was approached by stud dog people after a pick of litter mating to my bitch by their Gr.Ch.whippet dog. They explained they only wanted first pick of the litter, probably a female puppy.

I asked my bitch's breeder and we both thought it sounded OK. I had possible show homes for my share of litter. I told the stud people this.

My kennel prefix had expired as I had not bred dogs since late 70s. I agreed to lease my bitch so the stud people could use their own prefix.

I stipulated my bitch would not leave my keeping so the mating took place at my property. Although I had all documentation ready to sign, the dog owner arrived very late at night and just wanted to try the pair before it got any later. The whippets mated that night and next morning. I pressed the dog owner to see to the paperwork. He said he must run it by his partner first. It only needed his authority as the dog is in his name only.

Almost a week after the mating I was told they would NOT allow anyone to own entire puppies under their famous prefix. They would NOT take their puppy at 8 weeks, they might need months to choose. When I objected I was offered a bag of dog food. I was to de-sex the rest of litter after they eventually chose their pick. I was told this is common practice with cat breeding (?!)

I refused to lease my bitch to them under the extra conditions. They said I could use another prefix if I would not de-sex the litter but they still wanted pick of litter.

I preferred to pay the stud fee but they would NOT take it, they only want pick of litter. I offered to sell them a puppy for the price of stud fee but they would NOT accept that either.

My bitch's breeder offered a lease so her kennel prefix could be used. The dog owner would NOT accept a 'third party'. He said I could use his or my own prefix. I obtained permission from Dogs (Q) for my prefix despite that the mating had already been done.

The stud dog owner has rejected 2 suggested contracts and NOT offered any other. He has NOT replied to requests for signing anything.

[WreckitWhippet]

It should be signed and handed over at the time of the mating, regardless of you accepting payment at the time of the mating. What is negotiated between the parties in terms of stud fee, litter size, return matings etc, is between the stud and bitch owner, but I really feel that the stud owner should abide by the CC's rules and regs at do it at the time of mating.

People will argue that a service certificate could be misused, but the easy way around that is to write it into your stud contract that no refunds and no return matings will be given , until the cert is handed back to the stud owner for destruction.

[Souff]

Have used 5 stud dogs over the last 6 years - I always paid the owner on the day - watched the mating and recieved the service certificate on that day. The one occassion a stud owner wanted a pup from the mating she paid me for the pup at 8 weeks.

I also checked that if there were no pups for whatever reason there was a free return mating. Some stud dog owners offer a return free mating if 3 or less live pups are born.

The dog's job is to transfer semen into the bitch - IMO the owner of the dog has no say over the sales of the pups - as I have seen some stud dog owners do. ie; you can have this mating on the condition person X does not get a pup.

As the owner of the bitch I am buying sperm.

As the owner of a stud dog I have a right to refuse bitches if I dont consider them healthy in temperament or conformation.

Its pretty straight forward IMO.

Same here.

A service certificate certifies that a bitch has been served.

Watch the mating, if possible, pay the fee and take the signed certificate home with you.

A service certificate has nothing to do with the pick of the litter or anything else. It does not guarantee that there will be pups. It is simply a piece of paper that certifies that a mating or matings have taken place.

Souff

[Mille]

Have used 5 stud dogs over the last 6 years - I always paid the owner on the day - watched the mating and recieved the service certificate on that day. The one occassion a stud owner wanted a pup from the mating she paid me for the pup at 8 weeks.

I also checked that if there were no pups for whatever reason there was a free return mating. Some stud dog owners offer a return free mating if 3 or less live pups are born.

The dog's job is to transfer semen into the bitch - IMO the owner of the dog has no say over the sales of the pups - as I have seen some stud dog owners do. ie; you can have this mating on the condition person X does not get a pup.

As the owner of the bitch I am buying sperm.

As the owner of a stud dog I have a right to refuse bitches if I dont consider them healthy in temperament or conformation.

Its pretty straight forward IMO.

Same here.

A service certificate certifies that a bitch has been served.

Watch the mating, if possible, pay the fee and take the signed certificate home with you.

A service certificate has nothing to do with the pick of the litter or anything else. It does not guarantee that there will be pups. It is simply a piece of paper that certifies that a mating or matings have taken place.

Souff

Thank you Tapua and Souff. This is also what I understand about a stud dog owners' obligation. That is why I started this thread. In my case, the dog owner asked for the mating, he travelled to my property for the mating, we both handled the pair to achieve the mating, there is no doubt that the pair were mated. He should have signed the service certificate before leaving my property. Or why not?

[idigadog]

If he's leasing your bitch, have you signed her over to him already? Sorry, you may have already said whether you have or not.

As owner of stud dogs here in our kennel, we do not sign stud service certificates until we have confirmation that a bitch is pregnant. Most times, in lieu of stud payment, we have pick puppy but this is an agreement that we make with the bitches owner prior to any matings. That's just how it goes for us.

It sounds like his demands and conditions changed AFTER the mating took place? If this is the case, do you have anything in writing from him as to what his terms originally were?