Behaviours That Could Lead To Dominance

[tarope]

You have a very serious problem with your Rottie, it's called love and you should enjoy every single moment as they are only with us a very short time.

Rotties and GSD's are the most loving and loyal breeds you can own, they love their family but do require training as this is something people forget. When the training is not given, words like Dominant and Dominance are used to blame the dog instead of the owner.

People are Dominant dogs are not, all our dogs were raised like children (shock,horror) and turned out just fine. All ours sit on the lounge or our bed and our Rottie sleeps on the lounge at night.

Your boy is still a pup and will not mature till about 3 yrs of age, you will notice he will become stubborn at times but don't worry it's normal just like digging large holes everywhere.

[grumpette]

I would not be concerned at all. :D

I have two leaners and toy nutters here, yet they will obey all commands and cease toy spitting when told to do so. They will only get up on furniture when invited and will get off when told. They will wait at the door until I go out and then go where directed, because they have been trained to and they know that non-compliance means back in the house and no walk, car ride or trip next door to the neighbours.

It is all about setting boundaries and being consistent. If you like your dog close to you then I don't see a problem, especially if it is on your terms. If your dog loves to interact with you, I don't see a problem as you can use that to train the behaviours you want and thus set boundaries.

It is only a problem when you become a resource that needs to be guarded, which can happen with our middle dog from time to time. When she growls when the Old Girl comes near me while she is under the computer table she gets told to go away, and she does. When she ignores the Old Girl approaching she gets praise.

Enjoy your leaner and toy/ball crazy dog. They are much easier to live with and train than an aloof dog is.

[flame ryder]

If someone's going to ask me for tips on how to alpha roll their puppy - like happened to me last week - they'd better be prepared for a loooong conversation ;)

Ok I'm curious now...what on earth is alpha roll?

[emery]

OK my three rotties do not know they are dominant then

They bring me toys, lean on me and sit on me heavy sods

They also do go through doors before me

One constantly hits my hand with her head for scratches.

but never once have they dared challenge me I let them do it as they know

I am boss and they respect me they listen when told to stop,

they get off the bed or couch (except the girls when hubby asks they look

at him like you gotta be joking :p)

Cuddily teddy bears with boundaries :D

[mumof4girls]

I am so glad this topic came up.. I have read books that say never let your dog walk through a door before you, if they are laying in the path you need to walk never go round them etc etc.. I want to love my dog, cuddle my dog I do not want a robot.. I can see that dogs need to be trained but is it that bad for me to walk around a sleeping dog if it is in my way?

Anyway I have decided to take what I think is correct information from books and ignore the over the top stuff or at least ask if I am unsure :-)

Get to see pics soon of my boy OMG I am so frustrated I cannot wait :-)

[lovemyrottie]

thanks for the positive responses guys

and for the people that are against, each to their own i guess!

i wouldn't change a thing about my so called "sticky rottie" and cherish every moment of our closenesses together because one day they won't be there, their life's way too short and i wouldn't want to regret anything...

too much time is spent over analysing things (which was me at one point) and worrying about the smaller things in life when you should just enjoy every moment of it while you have it.

for now pup's not causing any problems and if he tries to be naughty, i'll tell him off and he'll stop what he's doing then walk off with his head down

i'm aware that things might change a little as he gets older and since i'm not planning to neuter him till he's at least 15-18 months might also make things a little more challenging but i'll follow the advise of the more experienced, keep going to obedience training, be firmer, consistent or whatever it is that i'll have to do and hope for the best!

[jacqui835]

And all these dogs are getting exactly what they want when they want.

And we're getting exactly what we want. We want happy, confident dogs not afraid to ask for love. You can choose where to set your boundaries. My dog is allowed on the bed by invitation only, but once on the bed, he likes to be as close to me as is possible (often this means on me). This works well for me too and we enjoy our cuddle times. If I want him to get off he will.

It is my personal belief that some dogs can understand the concept of 'partnership'. When we work, we are partners - I'm the brains of the operation he is the dog (be that the speed, the bite, the nose etc). If you track with a dog, the dog leads but he's not the boss of you, you're just partners and he's the one with the nose so he works out what direction you're going.

[Weasels]

Ok I'm curious now...what on earth is alpha roll?

Decades ago, when people were observing interactions between unrelated wolves that they had placed in an enclosure together, they saw what they thought was the alpha wolf pushing a subordinate wolf onto the ground by their neck and pinning it there to assert its dominance. Long story short, some people use this technique to assert dominance over their domesticated dogs.

What will actually occur within a stable wolf pack is a subordinate (usually an offspring of the alpha wolf, which is by definition the primary breeding individual) will volunteer a position on the ground. Canids do a lot of posturing and subtle body language to communicate so they don't have to be physical with each other. If a wolf is actually forcing another wolf onto the ground by its neck, it is almost always about to kill it.

If you want to create a dog that is fearful, or reactive/aggressive to being touched around its neck, alpha rolls are a great way to go. You can get away with it on some dogs, in many you are creating far worse behavioural problems than you started with.

Also, and I've said it before, dogs aren't wolves. And they don't think for a second that WE are wolves either.

[pebbles]

I have a doggy door set in the wall next to the people door and my two generally beat me either in or out, they sleep on the bed, sit on the couch, actually Abby has her 'own' chair and it's quite funny if a visitor sits on it, she stares for a while then lies down with the most pathetic look, rolling her eyes at me 'please remove that person'.

eta thought I'd better add - I'm not that well trained that I ask the visitor to move

Edited November 30, 2011 by pebbles

[jacqui835]

thanks for the positive responses guys

and for the people that are against, each to their own i guess!

i wouldn't change a thing about my so called "sticky rottie" and cherish every moment of our closenesses together because one day they won't be there, their life's way too short and i wouldn't want to regret anything...

too much time is spent over analysing things (which was me at one point) and worrying about the smaller things in life when you should just enjoy every moment of it while you have it.

for now pup's not causing any problems and if he tries to be naughty, i'll tell him off and he'll stop what he's doing then walk off with his head down

i'm aware that things might change a little as he gets older and since i'm not planning to neuter him till he's at least 15-18 months might also make things a little more challenging but i'll follow the advise of the more experienced, keep going to obedience training, be firmer, consistent or whatever it is that i'll have to do and hope for the best!

Sticky dogs are the best. My dog is still entire and an adult now, and he's confident but never challenging with me. According to my club, he's very respectful towards me (he plays a lot more aggressively when the guys step in to show me something than what he will do with me) and we have what they all want to have - a partnership where the dog wants to work simply to please me. That said, he did go through a phase from 7-9 months where he was a bit trying (wanted to test his new strength on other dogs, thought he was too good to have to always listen etc). We came down on him harder, problem resolved and now 10+ months on and we've had no issues since. Mine is the same, you tell him off, he sulks, stands like a horse with his head on a down angle until we call him back a while later and reward him for coming etc.

[Nushie]

So glad this topic came up. We have a "know it all" friend that doesnt even own a dog, in fact i dont think he has ever owned a dog, that insists that we are encouraging dominant behaviour in Jager. Mainly because we let him on the couch and sleep on the bed. When we play he often tries to hold the toys with his paw on our hand. Apparently these are the beginings of a very dominant dog.

However, we like that he cuddles on the couch when we watch DVD's and i love the fact that the first thing i do every morning is give him a cuddle, cause he is right there at my feet. If we dont want him on the couch or bed for some reason, we just tell him "down" and off he gets. No fuss, no complaining, just straight down and he will curl up at your feet instead.

These aren't unwanted behaviours by us and he has never been aggressive with food or toys. If he has something he shouldn't, he gives it up when we ask.

I never really understood the purpose of the alpha roll. Growing up, a friends dad did it every time their dog misbehaved and the dog ended up scared and would run away. I want a dog that will come when he is called, no matter what they are doing or have done wrong or whatever is happening on the street.

[lovemyrottie]

ps, i kiss and cuddle him sometimes too

but then he kisses me sometimes too...

[Kajtek]

I tend to think of 'behaviours' as manners. Easier to understand by a garden variety dog parent like me.

If a dog is rude, it needs to know/be corrected.

Enjoy your beautiful, loving and well mannered rotti.

Edited November 30, 2011 by HonBun

[BJean]

"Behaviours That Could Lead To Dominance"

A dominant dog is born that way.

Some dogs have assertive tendencies but this not the same thing.

I don't think there are behaviors that "can lead to dominance"

but there are behaviors you should not tolerate from a dominant dog.

But for the most part this is not relevant to the average dog/owner.

[BJean]

Decades ago, when people were observing interactions between unrelated wolves that they had placed in an enclosure together, they saw what they thought was the alpha wolf pushing a subordinate wolf onto the ground by their neck and pinning it there to assert its dominance. Long story short, some people use this technique to assert dominance over their domesticated dogs.

What will actually occur within a stable wolf pack is a subordinate (usually an offspring of the alpha wolf, which is by definition the primary breeding individual) will volunteer a position on the ground. Canids do a lot of posturing and subtle body language to communicate so they don't have to be physical with each other. If a wolf is actually forcing another wolf onto the ground by its neck, it is almost always about to kill it.

This is not correct.

And imo causes the same kind of perception and expectation problems

as the dominance=alpha roll notion.

Edited November 30, 2011 by lilli

[Weasels]

lili it was poorly worded but I do not believe it's incorrect. By 'physical' I meant interactions with the potential to cause physical harm. Wild canids, and most social species, will not risk injury unecessarily - just to communicate - when an injury is quite likely to mean death through infection or inability to procure food. It would be evolutionary suicide.

I would expect the level of apparent physicality, however, to correlate with the presence of bite inhibition. Wolves have it, coyotes not so much.

[Odin-Genie]

such as, a dog leaning on you, bringing their toys and pushing them against you, standing over your feet or legs, if a dog walks through the door before you, if they walk a tiny bit ahead of you on a lead (wouldn't call it pulling though) if you let them sit up on the couch next to you, if you let them sleep on your bed etc.

My dogs do all of the above....

If the grass is wet, Odin would rather stand on my feet (or better still be picked up)...

When he wants to cuddle he leans against me looking at me with soulful eyes...

When he wants to play he brings his toy and tries to push into my hands while he is doing a play bow...

My dogs always get to go through a door before me so that I can see where they are going... same with walks

And yes, they sleep on the couch and the bed...

They are perfectly happy dogs who have never tried to dominate.

[Jeff Jones]

"Behaviours That Could Lead To Dominance"

A dominant dog is born that way.

Some dogs have assertive tendencies but this not the same thing.

I don't think there are behaviors that "can lead to dominance"

but there are behaviors you should not tolerate from a dominant dog.

But for the most part this is not relevant to the average dog/owner.

The over confidence in dominant dogs is the first thing you notice, they are not "clingy" dogs and they do not try to dominate every person or dog they come across.

[BJean]

lili it was poorly worded but I do not believe it's incorrect. By 'physical' I meant interactions with the potential to cause physical harm. Wild canids, and most social species, will not risk injury unecessarily - just to communicate - when an injury is quite likely to mean death through infection or inability to procure food. It would be evolutionary suicide.

I would expect the level of apparent physicality, however, to correlate with the presence of bite inhibition. Wolves have it, coyotes not so much.

I see dogs who live in groups and there definitely is physical harm in some altercations

and it is not by accident.

How much injury a dog wants to risk depends on need/want Vs physical pain and capability. To me it makes more sense that a dog's 'necessity' for physical altercation depends on its instinct and environmental feedback.

One of my best girls is very physical with her pups, not all of them, but usually there are one or two who forget where they inherit their alpha birthright from.

Even when there are physical altercations between dogs from different families, physical harm is definitely part of the 'negotiation' process.

Of course, physical alteration is not used in the first instance between dogs that live in the same group, but I think it is definitely part of their communication repertoire.

A natural dog's coat and morphology can actually withstand physical harm quite well. Ie: harm will be received as physical pain but the risk of death and infection is very low.

So it is very unlikely that physical confrontation between dogs who live in the same group will be life threatening. EXCEPT in the situation where there is an intolerance between two members due to stronger basic instincts.

I cannot comment about wolves and coyotes and their bite inhibition as I do not spend time with them

[BJean]

The over confidence in dominant dogs is the first thing you notice, they are not "clingy" dogs and they do not try to dominate every person or dog they come across.

To me, this type of personality in a dog is a special trait I prize it above all others because with this type of dog you can do anything, they are the perfect total package. From an evolutionary perspective, they are remarkable and essential to the history of the dog. imo it is a reflection on the modern human, that this type of dog is widely misunderstood and misattributed, and in some circles, even debunked.

Edited December 1, 2011 by lilli